Topic: New videos from Curry2Go in Chorley

[Cory Ander]

But who says he gets a smokey flavour?  Have you tried his curries?  Have you cooked them yourself and got a smokey flavour?

[Razor]

Hi Spicey,

Yes. How do you get the smokey flavour in a BIR style curry on a standard kitchen gas hob and without resorting to high flame burners in the garden.

I'm not sure that I get "smokey" in my curries?  Certainly not from my favourite TA and BIR's, and I've eaten in many!

Sweet, yes.  Savoury, yes. Creamy, yes in certain dishes but I can't really say that I get smokey?  Unless our idea of smokey is something different.  Just checked through 8 menus that I have in my kitchen cupboard and the only item that one of them describes as smokey is their chicken/lamb tikka starter.

I assume when you say smokey, you don't mean like smokey bacon or smoked haddock, or even smoked paprika?

Ray

[spiceyokooko]

My understanding is, he wants to cook the best BIR food that he can, and possibly better his favourite restaurant.  To do that, he needs to understand the science.

Ray

It's not really a question of trying to create the 'best' dishes I can, because 'best' is a relative term. I think it's in any cooks nature to produce the tastiest and most enjoyable dishes with the ingredients they have at hand. In that sense I'm no different to anyone else here, they all want to produce the 'best' they can as well.

What I'm trying to do is define and understand each separate BIR curry cooking technique used to achieve the flavours you generically find in most if not all BIR style restaurant dishes. Once all those techniques are defined and understood, you should then be able to not only cook the variations found in most BIR restaurants, ie Bhuna, Vindaloo, Dopiaza, Madras etc, by varying the ingredients but do so reliably and with repeatable consistent results and not the 'hit and miss' results many people here seem to experience.

Once that's been achieved with reliable consistency, you can then transport those skills and techniques to other ingredients and actually start to create new and different dishes from scratch and without following an established recipe.

The big problem I feel for many people here, is that because they simply do not know or fully understand all the techniques involved they're wedded to established recipes and can't move away from them with any reliability.

I'll give you an example of precisely what I'm talking about. You go with a bunch of mates to a new Curry Restaurant you've never been to before, you have a dish recommended by the chef as a 'Restaurant Special' let's say 'Sindhi Style Lamb'. You recognise familiar flavours and you know the principal ingredients, how are you going to replicate this dish at home without a specific recipe, unless you fully understand all the standard BIR style cooking techniques?

That's what I'm trying to achieve.

[spiceyokooko]

I assume when you say smokey, you don't mean like smokey bacon or smoked haddock, or even smoked paprika?

Ray

It's a hard quality/flavour to define and for many it's that final 5%, it certainly is for me. Cory posted a link to an excellent article on it further back in the thread and it's a good read -

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1851.0

Jerry also did some experimentation on it too, but I can't find the link to his thread at the moment.

[Razor]

Spicey,

I totally understand mate.  My recent post on Rogan Josh demonstrates what you mention.  I'd not had an RJ for the best part of 20 years, and it's not a dish that I usually order to be honest but, I had friends over that asked me if I could make them one, and not one to shy away from a challenge, I gave it my best shot.

I ordered 4 different RJ's from 4 different TA/BIR's in my area to get an understanding of the flavours.  Each had a slightly different taste, 1 being not very good at all really, but they all had whole spices in them, more to the point, cardamom, cloves, cinnamon and bay.  I'll be honest with you, I did think that the flavour was initially coming from Garam Masala (let's not go there eh? ) until I started to bite down on a cardamom or two.  Anyway, understanding what the common denominators were, I felt suitably armed to proceed with creating my own recipe.  Judging by the kind comments received here on cr0, I believe that it was a success.

Recognising flavours of individual ingredients in any dish, and knowing how to get the best flavour out of 'said' ingredients is a very useful skill to have.  I still wouldn't describe it as 'science' but either way, it should result in you being able to create a wonderful curry.

Ray

[Razor]

Arrr, the 'toffee' note, I get you now.  Well, my understanding of the 'toffee' note is, when the spice hit the oil, a good indication of when they are cooked properly, is an apparent aroma of toffee ascending up the old hooter.

I'll be honest again, it doesn't actually smell like toffee to me but come to think about, I probably could describe it is a 'smokey' aroma.

Ray

[spiceyokooko]

Well, my understanding of the 'toffee' note is, when the spice hit the oil, a good indication of when they are cooked properly, is an apparent aroma of toffee ascending up the old hooter.

And my understanding of the 'toffee smell' or smokey flavour that I define it as, comes from 'caramelisation' and not the correct cooking of the spices!

Not saying you're wrong at all, just saying my understanding of it is different to yours.

Hence my rather belligerent pursuit of the method of 'caramelising' the base sauce using an uncoated aluminium pan which was the contentious issue in so much of the latter half of this thread.

Caramelisation is the burning of sugars contained in the onions and does produce a 'toffee' type smell, hence my understanding that the smokey flavour comes from this process.

[spiceyokooko]

My recent post on Rogan Josh demonstrates what you mention.

Out of curiosity, did you use Kashmiri chillies in your Rogan Josh?

[Razor]

Hi Spicey,

Out of curiosity, did you use Kashmiri chillies in your Rogan Josh?

I didn't, is that what you know to be in an RJ?

I do add a few standard thin green chillies towards the end and I have replaced my chilli powder with kashmiri mirch, but that is my personal preference.

Ray

[Razor]

Hi Spicey,

And my understanding of the 'toffee smell' or smokey flavour that I define it as, comes from 'caramelisation' and not the correct cooking of the spices!

And that theory may well be correct my friend.  I would add though, that there is also garlic and in some cases tomato puree in the oil at the same time as the spices, which will both no doubt release sugars but to what extent, I wouldn't like to guess.

Ray