Topic: New videos from Curry2Go in Chorley

[spiceyokooko]

The more I think about this discussion the more I think that I'm doing myself a bit of a disservice really.

I think you probably are, but there's a very good way of testing yourself if it's something you were interested in doing. And I'm being quite genuine here, I'm not trying to be clever or trying to prove a point. You could even do it on the quiet without telling anyone, just to see where you are and what kind of results you could produce in comparison with a known quantity.

Put all your base sauces, mix powders and recipes to one side and start from a blank piece of paper and work entirely from the techniques and knowledge you've acquired to produce a BIR style curry dish from scratch. Anything goes apart from following a recipe.

Now develop your own base sauce, a marinade and/or pre-cooking method, your own spice 'masala' using ground spices or whole ones dry roasted and ground and cook out the dish tasting as you go and compare that to a recipe based 'known' quantity.

I guarantee you'll learn an awful lot about your cooking in the process. It's just for a bit of fun really, but it'll test your knowledge of the spices/ingredients and cooking techniques.

It's turned out to be a quite interesting debate, really enjoyed it.

Yes I agree. Discussions that break down preconcieved notions often reveal quite interesting new information, it's just dogma I dislike so much because it's a barrier to providing understanding.

[Peripatetic Phil]

f you understand the correct technique, then I suppose that you understand the science to some degree? 

Not convinced, Ray, not convinced, even with the best will in the world.  And with the greatest respect to BIR chefs throughout the land, I doubt whether many of them understand the science (qua science) either.  The technique -- most certainly; the technology -- most probably; but the science ?  Food science is real science, and unless you happen to be fortunate enough to have had a good education in science (as rare these days as a good education in grammar !), you are unlikely to really understand the science involved.  (Of course, I don't mean you personally, just the generic "you" that might be better expressed as "one" but which would undoubtedly sound excessively formal and pretentious on a forum such as this).  My EUR 0,02.

** Phil.

[Razor]

Hi Spicey,

Sounds like a worthwhile experiment and to be honest, I have already done this.  I did create my own base and spice mix to go with it.  It did at the time, teach me quite a lot one thing being that, a good base sauce does not need to be complicated to produce a good curry.

Anyway, here's a link to it, have a read http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0

Here's a link to something else that I was experimenting with at the time, http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5189.0

And my spice mix http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4706.0

As you can see, I do like the odd experiment or two ;D

Ray

[Razor]

Hi Phil,

Ok, what I should have said is "if you understand the technique, then you understand the science as far as a layman could"  that being for example; you know caramelising the spices is the correct thing to do (for some) because it produces  the sought taste but, you don't necessarily understand the absolute science ie; sugars being released and turning to liquid at x temperature and so on blah blah blah....

Do you see what I mean?

Ray

[Les]

All this talk about Pans, Technique is fine, But nobody has mentioned Spice's, Surely knowing how spices work together is a must, what happens to them when cooked is a must, How do you make up a spice mix without knowing the basics about spices, Don't see how you can, Are the spices not the main ingredient in any curry, without them what do you have, a Veg soup It's all well and good having the know how with Pan's and what not, Without knowing what the spices do you have nothing, guess work :
Apologies I'm starting to ramble on like an old woman

HS

[spiceyokooko]

Sounds like a worthwhile experiment and to be honest, I have already done this.

Yes and it's interesting, but you still followed someone else's recipe for producing the final dish. Why didn't you go the whole hog and complete your own dish using your own spice mix and base sauce? From what I could see you followed one of CA's recipes for the final dish.

And reading through your base sauce thread, springs up another of my own 'chestnuts' - the use of commercial curry powders. Again this just harks back to the dogma I was talking about previously and you can see it in that thread. "...I used a commercial curry powder in my spice mix because I saw that's what the BIR T/A used...".

How can you control the spice mix flavours when you're using a commercial curry powder in your spice mix, the ratios of the contents of the curry powder are unknown? I noticed you mentioned because it contained a small quantity of cloves as an example.

Ray, seriously, can you honestly tell me that the tiny amount of cloves in that curry powder you're using is having any influence at all on the overall flavour when used in your base sauce? Isn't it just more dogma - you're using it because you know the BIR's use it and you're emulating them, but you're not quite sure why?

Is it not better to try and understand the flavours being created and recreate them by using the specific spices themselves? This then allows you to understand and control the spicing in your dishes without any unknown variables? This is exactly what 976bar achieved with his Chicken Bhuna recipe by using star anise whilst frying his onions and produced a cracking dish as a result.

This is just my opinion and philosophy, I'm not necessarily saying it's a 'one size fits all' solution, but for me this is the way I prefer to go.

[ELW]

Not convinced, Ray, not convinced, even with the best will in the world.  And with the greatest respect to BIR chefs throughout the land, I doubt whether many of them understand the science (qua science) either.

Ive more than once saw a chef in a semi open kitchen hardly even pay attention to the pan as he was cooking,couldn't say or not what it tasted like, or if it was my stuff he was cooking

A taste test from Curry2Go, could answer a lot of questions in my own personal struggle....& these new multi stage gravies that have appeared recently....why now???

.............................and breathe
 out!!

[Razor]

Hi Spicey,

Yes you are correct, at the very beginning I did follow CA's methods and recipes, but further into the thread I do indicate that I changed this by creating a spice mix that I believe compliments my base and whilst I did still follow CA's methods, the flavour of the dishes changed somewhat, as you may expect them to.

The use of curry powder has always been a contentious issue and "guilty as charged", I used it because that's what I believed the BIR's and TA's did/do.  As you rightly point out, it's probably nigh on impossible to pick out the minor spices such as cloves, mustard seeds and so on but as an entity in itself, I did notice a different flavour when I omitted the commercial curry powder.  Again, as intermated in the post, I'd tried many variables before I settled on my spice blend and my base sauce, and I thought that the settled versions I'd come up with was the best that I could achieve at the time!

My main reason for pointing you towards the thread was to show you that, whilst I (and maybe others?) may not totally understand the science behind BIR cooking, I do experiment to get me closer to what flavour it is that I'm in search of. Sometimes, that means copying methods that I've seen or heard of, if only to rule them out later.

Very similar to 976's bhuna, I've been experimenting lately with madras.  There is a definite anise note to my local TA's madras.  Not to everyones taste, and certainly won't be everyones idea of what a madras should be but it's a very good madras, in my opinion.  Now, chewytikka had the good grace to try fennel seeds in his own madras which by his own admission "kicked the shit out of it".  I also tried fennel seeds in varying amounts, and it just wasn't right.  I then tried star anise, frying it off in the oil at the start and it was close, but still no cigar.  I now crush/grind half a very small star anise and add this to my mixed powder (only for madras) and it's there, it totally replicates my local TA's madras.  But here is the annoying thing, when I mentioned it to the TA owner, he looked at me like I had two heads.  Now, he's either a) throwing me off the scent or b) he gets that flavour by other means?

When you start out trying to emulate any kind of cuisine, everyone of us needs a starting point.  It just happens that in BIR cooking, that starting point for the most part is a base sauce and a spice mix. Yes, you could try to create your own from the very start but that would take some very creative thinking for most of us and so, the safer option is to try a already published recipe. Once you are armed with these two elements, and you have practised over and over again, it's all down to recipe refinement for me.  I suppose that IS the science, even if some of us, don't realise that.

Ray

[jb]

Blimey this thread has come along since I left it this morning....here's hoping for some definite answers next year!!!  I'm off for a few beers and a North Indian Specia!!l

[curryhell]

Blimey this thread has come along since I left it this morning....here's hoping for some definite answers next year!!!  I'm off for a few beers and a North Indian Specia!!l

Let me guess - Spice again jb??? ;D ;D.  Enjoy i'm off out shortly too for a few jars.  I'll give the curry a miss tonight i think.  Maybe tomorrow :