Topic: New videos from Curry2Go in Chorley

[Cory Ander]

I agree with chriswg in so far as many BIRs use aluminium pans because they're good

What an earth is "good" George? 

If you have a non-stick aluminium pan, try to remove the coating, like I did.

Right.  I'll go scratch off the non-stick coating on my 100 quid Scanpan then..... :

The one thing that seems sensible to me, if you're in doubt, is to use a bog standard aluminuim pan because many (most) BIRs seem to use them (for whatever perceived reason).  Mine cost me 8 quid a shot from the Asian store.  What you got to lose?

[spiceyokooko]

If you have a non-stick aluminium pan, try to remove the coating, like I did.

Hello there George, thanks for your input.

Out of curiosity, how did you go about removing the non-stick coating on your pan?

I'd pretty much already decided to change my old pan to something else and was considering the De Buyer Mineral B pans as a possible alternative and was curious about the 'Maillard' reaction you could achieve with these pans and wondered if somehow that was linked to caramelisation and BIR flavours. I then came across this thread and saw Julians video recommending standard aluminium pans without any non-stick coating as the way to go, hence my questions with regards to what people were using.

I've now read through Cory's linked thread about achieving that 'smoky, caramel' flavour using a high heat 'wok-style' burner and can't help but wonder whether Julian is achieving the same effect by simply allowing the base sauce to 'caramelise and burn' slightly in the uncoated aluminium pans he recommends. Or is it the greater flaming that occurs using the higher heat 'wok-style' burner? Given that you can achieve that 'flaming' without the need for high heat, it suggests the latter in my opinion.

I'm sorry to labour this point, but for me and my cooking, it's this 'smoky' flavour that's always been missing and is therefore of great interest to me in how I can recreate it.

[Peripatetic Phil]

The one thing that seems sensible to me, if you're in doubt, is to use a bog standard aluminuim pan because many (most) BIRs seem to use them (for whatever perceived reason).  Mine cost me 8 quid a shot from the Asian store.  What you got to lose?

Well, street-cred, clearly.  I mean, if your cooking utensils aren't endorsed by an egotistical foul-mouthed so-called chef, a.k.a. "T.V. personality", and appropriate badged and priced to match, then clearly not only are your chances of cooking anything at all worthwhile strictly zero, you are also failing to be properly impressed by the very expensive advertising campaigns that endeavour to lead the gullible into buying such products and are therefore one of those primarily responsible for the financial crisis in which this country now finds itself ...  So just get out there and buy some proper cookware, appropriately endorsed by whichever "celebrity chef" just happens to be the flavour of the moment, and then not only will your curries surpass even those of the legendary Veeraswamys, you will also be doing your bit to make Britain great again :-)

[Cory Ander]

So you're agreeing with my suggestion again are you Phil? 

On your tirade, I was gobsmacked to see what they charge for enameled cast iron cookware nowadays! 

Once upon a time, I think it was about the cheapest cookware you could buy!  Now it appears to be distinctly up market (with a distinctive price tag to match!)!

Seriously though, if you want to eliminate at least one variable, buy and use a bog standard aluminium pan like many (most) BIRs clearly use (for whatever perceived reason).  Damn it!  I'm repeating myself...again...

[spiceyokooko]

Just my (considered) opinion Spicey 

And as such you're more than entitled to express it.

However, what you need to remember I think is that you're probably far more advanced in achieving the results you want than most people here (at least in my opinion and from what I've read of your posts) and that whilst you may have the knowledge and ability to achieve all sorts of things using a variety of cooking utensils, because you understand the principles and processes unpinning what you want to achieve - many others here do not!

Therefore the use of a specific cooking utensil for you, may not make one iota's difference to you - for other lesser mortals and beginners and those less knowledgeable, the simple process of changing a cooking pan may make the world of difference to what they create.

This is one of the reasons why there's so much conflicting opinion - everyone has different experiences, knowledge, techniques and so on. What's good for one person may not be good for another.

I share your frustration, in this regard, but we have myriad members with myriad (and usually conflicting) experiences and opinions about almost any topic you'd care to mention! 

Exactly!

The secret is, I think, to sift through the opinions and form your own....

And that's exactly what I do. If that means I have to be quite brutal sometimes in the way I extract information and challenge preconceived notions then sobeit. I'm after truth and knowledge, sometimes you have to be brutal to get that (and thick skinned) there's too many ego's that can get in the way.

But, back to pans.  Do you SERIOUSLY believe that a non-coated aluminium pan is a MUST and that nothing else will do the job (for whatever reasons members might care to mention)?   :

For you? No. For more experienced members of the forum who've developed their own methods through trial, error and experience? No. For less experienced, newer members, members with little to no cooking experience, probably a big yes. They need to start from the basics and cut out as many variables as possible in achieving what they're looking for.

Cooking in an aluminium pan without a non-stick surface is undoubtedly one of the key skills/techniques any new aspiring BIR cook needs to master and understand, long before they start fiddling about with the dozens of different base sauces on offer!

Can you now see just how useful this thread and discussion is turning out to be? Not just for me, but I'm sure for many Cr0 members and yet someone tried to kill it by being off topic? Silly.

Good Karma!

[emin-j]

Too bloody boring and long winded for me  :

[Cory Ander]

Therefore the use of a specific cooking utensil....may make the world of difference to what they create

I agree and, at the risk of repeating myself (again...and again......), it's why I said this:

if you want to eliminate at least one variable, buy and use a bog standard aluminium pan like many (most) BIRs clearly use (for whatever perceived reason)

I trust this will suffice as a summary of my opinion? 

[Cory Ander]

Too bloody boring and long winded for me  :

Not sure what (or who) you're referring to emin-j.  But I think Spicey (at least) has raised some important points worthy of debate.....

[Razor]

Whilst understanding the science behind what we do with regards to cooking, is a very desirable piece of knowledge to have, at this/my level of cooking, it is less important than having the technique correct.  Obviously, if I have the technique correct, then logically I have the science part right too(I think )

I remember the days when the trusty wok was my weapon of choice, my curries were ok but there were elements of the BIR flavour/aroma missing. By changing my pan to an Ali BIR style pan, my results improved a great deal.  I must say though, I didn't change my pan because I thought that I'd get better results, I changed it because I'd seen the Ali pan being used in the BIR's, TA's and videos, as CA points out "Monkey sees, Monkey does"

The first noticeable difference for me was how quickly I could reduce the first ladle of base.  In my wok, it seemed to take twice as long to reduce as it does in my Ali pan.  My understanding of this is because the wok is, by design, a bowl whereas the pan has a much flatter cooking area, therefor, the reducing sauce in the pan is much shallower and reduces quicker. Once that first lot of base reduces, I am left with a layer of oil covering the base of the pan with the spices cooking/caramelising just below the layer of oil.  This is where I really start to scrape the spices back into the oil, leaving them long enough to "singe" but not too long that they burn or stick to the base of the pan. Then in goes the rest of the base, and I reduce to my preferred consistency.

Now, I don't try to claim that this technique is "the BIR way" but I do know that it works for me and produces my very best efforts of which I'm very very happy with.

I never managed the level of success that I have now with my trusty old wok but, a wok and a Karahi are pretty much the same thing (IMO) so how do they (the pro's) still manage to get all the elements correct when cooking a balti or karahi dish?  My only guess is heat?

There are so many variables to BIR cooking that we are never going to get a "1 size fit's all" solutions.  Here are some of the conflicting viewpoints that Spicey eludes to;

Never fry garlic, v Always fry garlic
Cook hard and fast v Cook slowboat style
Lemon juice/dressing in a madras v never use lemon juice/dressing in a madras
Never burn the spices v burn the spices to get a smokey note
always keep the pan as hot as you can v heat, quench, heat, quench
Garam masala goes in only at the end v Garam masala can be used at the beginning

The list goes on.

Understanding the science is without doubt, good knowledge to be in possession of but for me, and this is only my opinion, technique is key and if the technique has been developed through scientific means, then great but I don't really need to know that, I'll leave that to Heston ;D

Ray

[spiceyokooko]

I trust this will suffice as a summary of my opinion? 

Yes absolutely and thank for you at least having the courtesy to input some useful and interesting information and links to others, even if it was done with a smattering of flippancy. I was hoping you might expand your thoughts on your experimentation with high flame gas burners to achieve that smokey flavour with the 'caramelisation' achieved with uncoated aluminium pans as advocated by Julian, but it's not a problem.

I can see that this subject for the vast majority of more 'experienced' forumistas is either 'too instinctive' or 'too boring' to bother discussing. Carry on with the flippancy, snideness, sniping and arguing the toss over whether a micron of special x powder will transform my secret 'mix' powder to greatness.  : : :