Topic: Just got my Kushi Balti Book!

[vin daloo]

Well, i tried it last thurs or friday and the base aint very good at all.  the worst ive done for a while.  I think the spice mix and pre cooked stuff is good though.  maybe it'll work better with bruce edwrds or k dhillons base adding the "spicy tomato mix instead of the normal recipe.   

[George]

My guess at the moment is that my original fear may have been justified when I said I had doubts about a balti cook book and would be more interested in a genuine BIR cook book. It seems this book may be true to the restaurant but not to a BIR. They didn't answer my question on the same point, i.e. does this book contain BIR style recipes? Can your cook prepare standard curry house (non-balti) fare?

I'll answer it myself. I'm sure he can but these aren't the recipes in the book.

Regards
George

[pete]

I think this red masala is used in BIR's
Probably not as fancy as the book though
I was told it had coconut, sugar and Kashmiri masala in
and those are parts of the given recipe
I don't think the red sauce, they add to the finished dish, is just marinade

[raygraham]

Hi All,

Right then, here we go, this is my ( long, drawn out ) contribution to the Kushi debate.

This weekend I have just made three curries of which TWO were from the Kushi Book.

I made the base as instructed with one small exception and that was I used Garlic/Ginger puree from a jar instead of fresh. I used the same amount as the recipe (10-15 gms of each) so actually used about 25 gms of the Ginger/Garlic mix in total.
Apart from this I did as instructed.

As I reported before the base was quite aromatic smelling which isn't surprising as some powerful whole spices are used, Cardamom, Cinnamon, Cloves, Star Anise, Fenugreek Seeds and of course the controversial Mace!.
I do not have a "cooking net" as the book suggests but used a metal "infuser" which is like two tea strainers clipped together to hold the spices so they can be easily removed ( Sainsbury's sell em cos their posh! ).
Perhaps, as this is a fairly open mesh more of the spice flavour infused the base so would explain why mine was quite aromatic.
I have some pics as well but can't seem to get them on the site!!

I then made the Tomato/Spice mix and added this to the Onion, Peppers, Carrot and Spice mix.

Once cool and blended this light brown mixture was the texture and thickness of condensed soup. It had an underlying kick to it and a pleasant taste but not quite what I had expected. Perhaps after all the build up to this book I was expecting the words BIR to jump from my lips but it didn't.
Never mind, press on!

The pre-cooking method produces moist meat ( I did Chicken ) with a subtle taste, certainly not overpowering curry tasting but pleasant marinaded Chicken would best describe it. I can't knock it, and it does add to the overall result.

However, the pre-cooked meat in the Balti Kitchen video is on a par if not better.

The book does state that things need to come together to make the final result!
Forever onward!

The star attraction seems to be the unique Kushi Spice mix which is said to be a closely guarded secret by many chefs.
I must say it is reminiscent of the Bruce Edwards spice mix but does make me think a mix like this is a pretty essential ingredient to an authentic curry.

After all it is used in every recipe in this book!

Once armed with the blended base sauce and the Kushi Spice the recipes are a doddle.
Fry some more Onion and Garlic, add the Kushi Spice Mix, a ladle of sauce, some Tomatoes, Coriander and away you go!! Some variations in some recipes but generally speaking the main work is done at the start with the base and pre-cooking. Prawns don't need pre-cooking!

The Basic Balti I found was very pleasant tasting. Not quite "in your face" BIR but non-the-less a very acceptable curry ( don't give up on it Pete! ).

It might not have "that taste" ( more in a minute ) we all use as the benchmark but both myself and family ( who are the guineapigs of authenticity ) felt it was a good contender as a recipe to try again. It does taste like it comes from a restaurant even though some might say not "their" particular one! There are loads near me and they all have their differences.

The King Prawn Patia was ( I am told ).............lovely!.
I can't stomach Prawns ( tastes like kissing Grimsby Dock! ), so it was my other half who gave it the thumbs up.
Sweet and sour and "just like from down the road" was the reply.

Blondie was saying his partner likes the food from this restaurant and the tastes are quite subtle and certainly not too spicy, more aromatic so maybe these recipes would suit someone with a less fiery pallet.

As an experiment I used some of the base sauce that was left over and re-fried it with more oil as the original base with only 60mls of oil did not yield any to skim off.
I added about 200 mls of Veg oil and simmered it for about 20 mins. The resultant oil that came off was absolutely gorgeous. Dark, Spicy and Aromatic and with the Smokey taste we all look for.

I wonder if this oil is then used in any future cooking of the Kushi recipes we might not get closer to the result we want to achieve?

I think "Mark J" has the right idea in that we should not give up too soon. I had a good result, not superb but good enough to warrant a second try.
Pete, I don't know what happened mate but "stew" doesn't describe mine!

"Blondie" has seen some good results.

"Vin Daloo" has tried it but thinks it worth using KD's base or Bruce's Edward's as an option? I agree it's worth a try.

Personally, I have had some good results this weekend, not perfect but good quality curry worthy of another go and a bit of "tweaking".

For anyone out there thinking of trying the Kushi Book I would say give it a go............at least once.

Regards

Ray G

Oh!, and if you are wondering what the third dish was it was CTM from the Balti Kitchen Video.
The base sauce from this is worth a look! Dead simple but makes a good curry.
And as for the Chicken Tikka Masala I think it's absolutely great and my son can't get enough of it. The only thing I do different from the video is add a quarter of a block of Coconut as well just before serving...............beautiful stuff!


Good cooking folks!

[Ashes]

I agree with Blondie, the authentic balti isn?t at all like the BIR, i think i also said that those looking for the BIR taste won?t find it in the book. Its a different style from BIR, trad or anything else resembling a curry you?ve had (if you haven?t had an authentic balti)

But if the dishes are  like they cook in the restaurant (as Blondie said) and they have enough customers to make it worth while that the chef  writes a book about his food, then there must be something wrong if you`re disappointed. If you don?t like authenic baltis, then fair enough, if you are looking for the BIR and don?t find it in the book then thats alright. But i think the book should be judged for what it is. Iv? ordered a copy from Amazon which unfortuantely arrive in Sweden after Christmas. Im hoping it will be a Birmingham balti recepe book, and Im sure if it doesn?t taste like one, youll hear plenty of comments from me.

Id suggest to those ppl trying to make it into a KD curry to give up. The flavours are subtler more aromatic, not so hot (generally) and they are cooked from scratch (more of less). The flavour comes from fresh ingrediences (fresher the better). I would suggest that ppl experiment with the qualities of the spices and the amount of oil used as usually cooks tend to be on the more conservative side when writing books.

In their book i know they suggest smaller amount of spices than some people prefer, my thought on this is, that restaurants probably have better spices to hand; so they taste better(and therefore need less), increasing the amount of spices in a curry doesn?t always make it better, it can change the consistency and taste pretty aweful, the browning of the  garlic has to be done carefully as the finished dish can easily be made bitter. BTW, Ive only found 1 place where you can by freshly ground spices(mix) in Sweden, and i would always recommend buying your own and carefully roasting them and grinding them yourself, play around a bit with the recipes and see what improvments can be made, GL.

[raygraham]

Hi Ashes,

I agree wholeheartedly with you on two counts.
Firstly the Kushi recipes are not the BIR style we all talk about but as far as I am concerned ARE restaurant style curry, namely Balti which we agree is different. I made succesful curries at the weekend but not what I could claim were typical of BIR's near me. They were however very tasty and enjoyed by the whole family.

The quality of spices is paramount. I rarely buy any powdered spices and certainly not from supermarkets. The best source is ethnic supermarkets but make sure you look at the sell-by dates on the packets. One or two near me put the near out-of-date's at the front so I rummage to the back for the freshest. The larger shops don't seem to have this problem as their turnover is higher.

I mainly buy whole spices and I use a coffee grinder to grind down small amounts. Fenugreek Seeds don't grind well though.

The flavours dramatically change if the whole spices are lightly roasted first. The smell of freshly roasted Garam Masala is awesome and I encourage everyone to try it at least once.

Ray

[Ashes]

Yes Ray!

A good tip for people buying spices is make sure that the spices are stored away from sunlight, if a shop has their spices in the shop window then you might expect them to deteriorate in taste and colour. I started buying powered Methi as the hassle of roasting (they can easily burn and become bitter) and grinding them (they are as hard as Mike Tyson) can be a problem. There seem to be different Coriander seeds too, some are completely useless and give a bland taste, others (slightly larger ones) smell fantastic when roasted.The best way iv? found is to fry them in a dry pan, on a low-medium heat, move them around slowly and check the colour, they should become slighly brown and start to smell a bit like popcorn. I know this is a hassle but the difference is worth it. Those who haven?t tried roasting and grinding, be careful because it takes only a few burnt spices to ruin a spice mixture, and as spices brown at different rates (cummin browns faster than coriander for example) then it just a matter of judgement and experience and patience. Don?t be tempted to shove all your spices in one pan and roast them together as some will be over browned, others medium and others under done, and the idea is to get them all at the starting line at the same time.

Btw, talking about Mace, i?m surprised that he uses it in his recipes.
mace   Notes:   This is the lacy wrapping that covers nutmeg when it's plucked from the tree.  Its flavor is similar to nutmeg, but slightly more bitter.  It's usually sold already ground, but you can sometimes find blades of mace that you can grind yourself.   Substitutes:  nutmeg (sweeter and milder than mace)

I?d suggest nutmeg instead.

[pete]

Hi Ray
          Although I chucked away my curry, I kept the base
I'll try boiling it with oil
In truth, when you look at the spicing, it's taste and smell is predictable
Star Anise gives a very aniseedy flavour
I clearly have never had a proper balti
I have bought curries from takeaways called "baltis" but they are nothing like this flavour
I didn't realise that it's a totally different type of curry
I think it's all down the base again

[raygraham]

Hi Pete,

I must agree with you in that I was a bit dissapointed with what the book represented and surprised at the initial taste of the base and resultant recipes. However, after the initial shock and realisation that this was definately something different I made two extremely tasty curries non-the-less.
We were all hyped up to expect a revelation of secret's about the BIR taste and what we got was somehow different. Not the BIR taste we are all after but this "other" curry called Balti.
And even that is hard to define as we go to restaurants advertising "Balti" and get BIR or places like the Kushi and get "Balti" instead, not a BIR in sight..........confusing isn't it! The opinions on this site after the book emerged have been interesting and diverse to say the least. It has certainly created a lively talking point if nothing else.

To be up with the top runners nowadays you must have the word "Balti" associated with your restaurant or people think you are behind the times. Where did this thing come from anyway. When I was in my teens there was no such thing yet we are now told it's been around for donkeys years!
One restaurant near me has the word "Balti" stuck in front of everything on the menu just to be "in vogue"! Balti Poppadoms, Balti Rice, Balti Pickles, Balti Toilets out back and they give you a Balti Bill at the end with Balti Belly Ache the next day!!!!

I think this site has a definate focus on the BIR taste and the introduction of this book with a seemingly different approach has brought even more confusion to us all. George has called it "information overload" and perhaps that doesn't help us much.

But I also feel the focus on this site is rather tunnel visioned with emphasis on getting that "taste" as the all important goal. Perhaps we need to broaden our approach a bit to encompass these other options out there.
I found there are similarities along the way between the BIR taste you are working so hard to find ( much respect ), and the results from the Kushi book. That isn't surprising as there are some common factors between the two. The hard bit is unravelling all this info we have now got! What a task.

For me I think the base is the most important part.
Just recently there has been a full circle turn around back to KD after it went out of the frame for a while. We also hear folk using the Balti Kitchen Base succesfully ( I have ) and other bases developed by individuals on the site such as your 600ml base.

Most of? these are simple bases, easily made, no margins of error and quite subtle. They all lend themselves to working on by adding things like "smokey oil" to enhance the flavours and get that elusive "taste". The other more robust bases like Bruce Edwards and Kushi etc are more or less curries in there own right and don't need much more adding to them to get the end result.

Whichever ones we choose to make there is one thing for certain that we are blessed on this site with so much material and so many dedicated people like yourself we may take some time over it and have many debates but I am sure we are gonna get there in the end.

Regards and good cooking,

Ray

[Ian J]

On the books site there are a couple of sample pages, one has colour photos.  Discussions on here have only mentioned the poor quality of b&w photo's.

Does this mean there are no colour photo's in the book.