what are the benchmarks in creating bir taste?

[ELW]

the frustrating thing for me is the simplicity of of the ingredients / equipment(tandoor excluded)/ & lazy cooking method which the chefs seem to be able to apply to these dishes, to create an appealing taste, honed particularly to western palates. They are after ll true entrepreneu
rs

[loveitspicy]

I would like to suggest that this post doesn't veer into a search for the holy grail - the fact that some members can beat 3 out of 5 BI Rs is actually testament to this site and their cooking. If we said we could beat 3 out of 5 French restaurants would that be considered an achievement.

For the last year I've been regularly knocking out 3 to 4 curries, 3 to 5 times per week. My curries have never tasted better and I reminded of Bruce Edward's last post - this site has everything you need - crack on and get cooking!

I really don't think it's about reclaimed oil, jaggery, or msg, I think it's about sticking with a decent base, spice mix, set of recipes and bashing on. There's a lot of these on this site and I really don't think one will draw you more to an "ellusive" taste than any other. The more you cook the better your results will be.

Just read this again Stephen - WELL SAID!

[George]

I would like to suggest that this post doesn't veer into a search for the holy grail - the fact that some members can beat 3 out of 5 BI Rs is actually testament to this site and their cooking. If we said we could beat 3 out of 5 French restaurants would that be considered an achievement.

I disagree. Your comment confirms why I sometimes see things differently to other people on this forum. By my reckoning, there's fewer than 2 out of 5 BIRs where I rate the food these days. I'm sure the ratio was higher in the 1980s and most of the 90s. So, that means at least 3 out of 5 BIRs serve food which is mediocre and relatively tasteless. How can it be an achievement to "beat 3 out of 5 BIRs" when the standard is so low?

Yes, it would certainly be impressive to beat 3 out of 5 French restaurants because the standard is probably much higher.

[Peripatetic Phil]

I disagree. Your comment confirms why I sometimes see things differently to other people on this forum. By my reckoning, there's fewer than 2 out of 5 BIRs where I rate the food these days. I'm sure the ratio was higher in the 1980s and most of the 90s. So, that means at least 3 out of 5 BIRs serve food which is mediocre and relatively tasteless. How can it be an achievement to "beat 3 out of 5 BIRs" when the standard is so low?

Yes, it would certainly be impressive to beat 3 out of 5 French restaurants because the standard is probably much higher.

I think that George has a fair point, but let me put it to him from the opposite perspective : if we can produce food /better than/ three out of five BIRs, and could at least /equal/ the other two, then that would be an achievement, would it not ?  I am not saying that this is necessarily the case, but I am saying that we should not be too dismissive.

** Phil.

[George]

I think that George has a fair point, but let me put it to him from the opposite perspective : if we can produce food /better than/ three out of five BIRs, and could at least /equal/ the other two, then that would be an achievement, would it not ?  I am not saying that this is necessarily the case, but I am saying that we should not be too dismissive.

Thank you for your partial support!

To keep things simple, let's simplify the criteria to say "equal to, or better."  I don't know about you but, whilst I reckon I can cook a fair few dishes to equal the 3 out 5 mediocre places, I still can't cook anything (apart from Blade's chicken tikka perhaps) which equals, let alone betters, the other 2 out of 5 places.

If anyone reckons they can, then why were so few people prepared to lay their cards on the table and invite a selection of other members round to dinner, when I suggested a 'Come Dine' idea? In my opinion, it would still help establish  the true standard of the forum, when all is said and done after many years "R&D" and endless debate, since the forum started.

[Cory Ander]

crack on and get cooking!...The more you cook the better your results will be.

Sounds to me a bit like a football coach telling their players to just "get out there and play!  The more you play the better you will get!" without providing any guidance or direction.  I suspect they wouldn't hold their job too long! 

Surely a little (lot) more guidance is in order? 

[emin-j]

Allways interesting to read the latest comments but it does seem we have got to a level and have run out of new idea's  What keeps me going though was standing at our favourite T/A's Chef's side watching him make my Chicken Madras ,so simple :-
Veg Oil in Pan (some Ghee melted into the Oil)
Tip of Chef's spoon dipped into dried Methi leaves and stirred into pan.
Garlic/Ginger Puree added ( at least 2 heaped tsp ) and fried.
Tom Puree added and stirred in.
A good heaped tbl spoon of 'Chef's Spice Massala' (looked a coarse texture and with the colour of Garam Masala )
Chili Powder (cant remember how much)
A Chef's spoon of Base followed by Pre-Cooked Chicken some more Base,Salt,and a good pinch of fresh Coriander.
Simmered for a few Minutes then poured into a T/A container and garnished with fresh Coriander.
Job Done.
No High heat,No Spiced Oil (other than Ghee melted in),No 'special' additives unless it was in the Spice Mix 
It tasted lovely and I just can't get close to this one 

[loveitspicy]

Allways interesting to read the latest comments but it does seem we have got to a level and have run out of new idea's  What keeps me going though was standing at our favourite T/A's Chef's side watching him make my Chicken Madras ,so simple :-
Veg Oil in Pan (some Ghee melted into the Oil)
Tip of Chef's spoon dipped into dried Methi leaves and stirred into pan.
Garlic/Ginger Puree added ( at least 2 heaped tsp ) and fried.
Tom Puree added and stirred in.
A good heaped tbl spoon of 'Chef's Spice Massala' (looked a coarse texture and with the colour of Garam Masala )
Chili Powder (cant remember how much)
A Chef's spoon of Base followed by Pre-Cooked Chicken some more Base,Salt,and a good pinch of fresh Coriander.
Simmered for a few Minutes then poured into a T/A container and garnished with fresh Coriander.
Job Done.
No High heat,No Spiced Oil (other than Ghee melted in),No 'special' additives unless it was in the Spice Mix 
It tasted lovely and I just can't get close to this one 

Simplicity that is the way!!!! (as mentioned above)

best, Rich

[ELW]

Hi emin-j, & everyone who has answerd this thread , the 'benchmarks' description was probably wrong, but as a new member it has sparked the update i personally thought was missing on cr0. When I joined, I noticed a void of new information even after genuine reports from bir's, & members experiments, and I just wondered where we were on this at Autumn 2011. I was never looking for a quick fix to this & as curryhell hinted at on this thread, the thrill is in the chase. Emin-j, what you are experiencing is what I suspect alot of people are still is that taste, doesn't taste like shop bought powdered spices heated up..regards to all who have chipped in to myinitial  question

ELW

[Ramirez]

It tasted lovely and I just can't get close to this one 

I feel your pain. 

There is something encouraging about the fact that, as loveitspicy says, it should be simple - no special ingredients, no special techniques, just bringing everything together and executing it well. But at the same time it is somewhat disheartening in that, for so many of us, despite this supposed simplicity, we have been unable to emulate it.

The dishes I make tend to be quite cyclical and I have just come back to the humble Madras. In fact, I made it last night and while it was enjoyable, it lacked the magical BIR quality. I just don't know where to go next with it really. I am hoping these lessons with Az go ahead as I think they will help tremendously.

All good fun.  ;D