Topic: Should children eat BIR type curries?

[George]

I mean should they eat too many. I'd class 'too many' as anything like once a week, given how unhealthy they need to be to taste very good. Once or twice a year might be OK, as a treat.

This lad eats too many Chinese takeaways by the look of it. Sad.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3483987/Tragic-three-year-old-Chinese-toddler-Lu-Hao-weighs-nearly-ten-stone.html

[natterjak]

I think you'd have to look at the child's diet as a whole rather than simply to ask how much of one food type they can consume.  In other words the answer to your question might be "depends what else they eat".

If curries are the fatty part of an otherwise balanced diet, great.  If curries are for contrast in a diet of fish&chips, chinese, pizza, etc.  Not so great.

[Peripatetic Phil]

I mean should they eat too many. I'd class 'too many' as anything like once a week, given how unhealthy they need to be to taste very good. Once or twice a year might be OK, as a treat.

I would start by asking "Is there any evidence that BIR curries are any more unhealthy than Indian home-made curries ?".  If they are significantly so, then an element of moderation might be desirable; if not, then I would look at the nutritional status of the average Indian child and ask "Is this status satisfactory ?", and if so, then I would stop worrying.  This pre-supposes, of course, that the metabolism of British and Indian children is very similar; I have seen no evidence to the contrary of this.

** Phil.

[George]

I would start by asking "Is there any evidence that BIR curries are any more unhealthy than Indian home-made curries ?".

I believe the evidence is here at this forum with the 'best' recipes so far gleaned. For example, the Taz base strikes me as having a lot of potential if the aim is to replicate a tasty BIR curry. It also fits with the amount of oil you can see swimming around in many/most BIR curries. How can Taz levels of oil be good for anyone, especially for a child? Another ingredient found in unhealthy amounts in most restaurant food, including BIRs no doubt, is salt.

I'm continuing with my quest to improve on my previous best attempt with chicken korma. One avenue I went down was to cut back a lot on the oil (down to about 1 tbls per serving for everything on the plate) given that roast beef gravy and most other sauces down't have much oil. But the korma just didn't come out as well. I don't understand why so much oil is needed to get a good tasting curry.

[Malc.]

George,

Take a look at the following datasheet: COFIDS You might be surprised at some of the data contained within it. Look at the Proximates tab, all values are per 100g as served.

The amount of oil in a dish is just a small percentage of the finished dish. Look at the difference between the results of chicken curry and battered cod, both from takeaways:

Fat(g)/100g
Chicken Curry = 9.8
Battered Cod = 15.4

So the curry (which in this case was 50 samples, 10 each of Korma, Tikka Masala, Dhansak, Jalfrezi and Dopiaza. Meat and sauce only.) is actually healthier than fish and chips. 

[George]

So the curry (which in this case was 50 samples, 10 each of Korma, Tikka Masala, Dhansak, Jalfrezi and Dopiaza. Meat and sauce only.) is actually healthier than fish and chips. 

I just had a quick look at the spreadsheet and it appears to cover 'recipes' and branded products like from a supermarket. These will have much, much lower quantities of oil and salt than restaurant (BIR) dishes (unless I'm very mistaken).

[Peripatetic Phil]

I would start by asking "Is there any evidence that BIR curries are any more unhealthy than Indian home-made curries ?".

I believe the evidence is here at this forum with the 'best' recipes so far gleaned. For example, the Taz base strikes me as having a lot of potential if the aim is to replicate a tasty BIR curry. It also fits with the amount of oil you can see swimming around in many/most BIR curries. How can Taz levels of oil be good for anyone, especially for a child? Another ingredient found in unhealthy amounts in most restaurant food, including BIRs no doubt, is salt.

But that is a very different question, George.  I asked (as you have accurately cited above) not whether BIR food was unhealthy per se, but whether it was significantly any less healthy than home-cooked food as prepared in India, and this point you have not addressed.  My underlying thesis is that if there is no significant evidence of dietary-related health issues in India, and if BIR food is no less healthy than home-cooked food as prepared in India, then we have no need to worry about how often a British child eats BIR food.

I would also dispute your suggestion that restaurant food is over-salted.  I am afraid that, post Tony Blair, I find that most ready-prepared food is now seriously undersalted and I almost invariably find it necessary to add further salt at the table (the odd occasion on which further salt has not proved necessary is so rare, in my experience, that when it does occur it is invariably a topic of conversation).

** Phil.

[Malc.]

I just had a quick look at the spreadsheet and it appears to cover 'recipes' and branded products like from a supermarket. These will have much, much lower quantities of oil and salt than restaurant (BIR) dishes (unless I'm very mistaken).

You can be forgiven for being mistaken, it is a complicated sheet that requires more than a quick look. There is also a manual on the FSA site to accompany the datasheet, if you find it useful.

The results for Chicken Curry are as previously mentioned 10 samples each made up as above, from 10 different outlets i.e. restaurants and TAs.

Here are a few more examples:

Fat(g) / Salt(mg ) / Sugar(g) / Chol(mg) all per 100g
19-129 Doner Meat from 20 Outlets =  31.4 / 860 / Nil / 94
19-322 Chicken Curry 5 assorted from 10 outlets = 9.8 / 356 / 1.2 / 37
19-321 Chicken Chow Mein from 10 Outlets = 7.2 / 466 / 0.3 / 13.4
16-023 Cod, Battered from 24 Outlets = 15.4 / 160 / Tr / Nil

[natterjak]

I would also dispute your suggestion that restaurant food is over-salted.  I am afraid that, post Tony Blair, I find that most ready-prepared food is now seriously undersalted and I almost invariably find it necessary to add further salt at the table (the odd occasion on which further salt has not proved necessary is so rare, in my experience, that when it does occur it is invariably a topic of conversation).

I guess it's all a question of taste.  My own experience is the opposite - I find the bulk of pre-prepared foods too salty and often my enjoyment of food is reduced as a result.  But then I'm sure taste buds adapt to salt as they do to capsaisin and the less you consume the better you are at detecting the taste.  When I cook I add very little or no salt, which would account for my being more sensitive to it in pre-prepared foods.

Talking of capsaisin, I'm having to add more and more chilli powder to my curries and still haven't produced one as hot as I'd like.  I'll be up to a whole TBS of hot chilli powder next time as I'm already past the 2 tsp level and still not hot enough.  I guess frequent use of the Tabasco habanero sauce on my chips has dulled my palate to this taste!

Getting back to the OP, I see no reason kids shouldn't eat BIR food from time to time if they enjoy it.  In my experience they don't tend to as they find the flavours too strong, but that's just the ones I know.

[Peripatetic Phil]

Getting back to the OP, I see no reason kids shouldn't eat BIR food from time to time if they enjoy it.  In my experience they don't tend to as they find the flavours too strong, but that's just the ones I know.

I think that one thing in favour of allowing (or even encouraging) children to eat BIR-style cuisine is that it is, if well chosen, a good balanced meal with protein, carbohydrate, fat, meat, pulses, vegetables and so on (and better still if washed down with a mango lassi).  IMVHO, it's probably a somewhat healthier option than a "Big Mac & fries", "Fish and chips", or a "Doner kebab in pitta"

** Phil.