Topic: A negative View On BIR

[Les]

Just being reading this post online,

I've no idea if this preparation of a curry base is commonly done in restaurants, but I can talk (more or less) about what some of the worse Indian restaurants in the UK allegedly do.

Years back,I skimmed through a book on (UK) Indian restaurant cooking. I think it was The Curry Secret by Kris Dhillon, though if more than one book has been written on the subject it could well have been a different book.

It was interesting in a horrifying sort of way. At the time I had recently moved to the UK from India, and had been mystified/disgusted by the food served in Indian restaurants in the town I was living - I really couldn't understand quite what they had been doing to make the food so bad (particularly because the restaurants included some places that actually smelt pretty good if you walked past them earlier in the day while onions and spices were being fried). This book went a long way in explaining how this really unpleasant food had been produced.

I certainly didn't read the book carefully, or at length, and it was about a decade ago, so some details may be wrong. But from what I do recall, the method for most 'slow-cooked meats' was more or less as follows:

Boil meat (or poultry, or whatever else) in water flavored with turmeric. When meat is done, discard water, shred meat and set aside for when dish is ordered.

Make a very large batch of generic 'curry sauce' by frying onions, ginger, garlic, tomatoes, and a few spices (no meat added at this point). When a specific dish is ordered, add more of certain ingredients to the sauce for that dish - e.g. sprinkle in large amounts of Kasoori methi (dried fenugreek), or add extra cream, etc. then add plain shredded meat, re-heat and serve.

This explained not just the bland tastelessness of most dishes served, but the strangeness of the many menu items:
for example many places had (or still have?) one whole section of the menu devoted to foods strongly flavored with dried fenugreek - though a popular enough spice in Indian it is not crumbled at random over virtually any dish in the manner offered by these restaurants.
Another menu section in one place that sticks particularly in my mind was a choice of 'South Indian' chicken, pork, lamb, or beef in a cream sauce with pineapple and flambeed brandy (no, I did not eat in that restaurant, I simply read its menu in the window, shuddered and moved on.)

Clearly, this type of flavoring is simply a ploy of using strong-tasting or distinctive ingredients to make one generic sauce taste different. It is also clearly different from the spice/onion base mentioned in C. Punjabi as in that case certain key ingredients are being prepared in bulk and then combined and cooked together with the meats.


(Of course, preparing a large batch of a few basic ingredients that are commmonly included is not necessarily a bad thing. Independently of cookbooks and simply for her own convenience my (Indian) mother-in-law has for years made a base by frying a large batch of onions, ginger, garlic, tomato, cumin, coriander and turmeric, which she then freezes in smaller portions and uses as a short-cut in her vegetable dishes. It works for her. Almost all her food is cooked in one particular regional style, and there is not usually a huge variation in the type of spicing she uses, so making up a large batch in advance makes sense for the way she cooks. )

[Malc.]

This is not a surprising view of it and I am sure if you asked most TA/BIR chefs for thier view it would be very similar. I know the IG staff are dumbfounded by my want to learn to cook BIR style rather than traditional. Each and every time I ask for hints tips or demos etc. they always try to steer me in a more traditional route.

I think this sort of view is more because they are ashamed perhaps, that TA/BIR is referred to as Indian, when in reality it is nothing like traditional Indian Fare.

Incidentally, where was this taken from?

[Les]

Hi Axe
I was searching for Daag curry base when i came across it here

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/80626-daag-curry-base/

HS

[PaulP]

That was quite an interesting link, thanks.

I've been working with Indian IT workers for about eight years and I know the guys pretty well. We've been out several times to BIR restaurants (they seem to favour the Sultan's Palace, Liverpool) and there is no question that they have enjoyed the food.

Of course it's not like "Mum's cooking" but they still seem to like it well enough.

Paul

[Les]

Hi Paul
As we all know "Nothing" is like Mum's cooking ;D

But I suppose it all comes down to individual taste again,
It would be a boring life if we all liked the same thing.

HS

[Malc.]

there is no question that they have enjoyed the food.

Of course it's not like "Mum's cooking" but they still seem to like it well enough.

I guess it's horses for courses and to add to that, the Indian family across the way from us (over here for husbands training at Amex), often buys from a local Modern Indian Restaurant.

The eGullet site is pretty good but I have found it lacking in Indian Cuisine, how do you find it?

[Les]

The eGullet site is pretty good but I have found it lacking in Indian Cuisine, how do you find it?

First time I've ever come across it, Not that impressed, wouldn't go out of my way to go there again

HS

[Razor]

Hi Hotstuff,

What the author observes in their story is pretty much what you would expect to hear from someone that has eaten traditional Indian food for many years.

The thing to remember is, I would say the majority of Brits aren't really that interested in tradition Indian food.  Often described as being disappointing or bland.  Of course, a fantastic chef will cook something quite amazing in the traditional style but we hear so many reports of peoples disappointment. 

My view on BIR food is, it was developed with the British palette in mind, using ingredients that were readily available in Britian, forming the foundation (base) to most of the dishes on the menu.

For example, I have an old traditional cookbook called 'Indian Cooking' written by Savitri Chowdary, and in it, there is a recipe for seekh kebab.  After making this recipe, I was so disappointed with the flavours.  There was a hint of what we get in our BIR's but it was a very subtle hint, nothing like what I want to taste in my seekh kebab.  I guess what I'm saying is, we (Brits) tend to prefer our "Indian" food, slightly overspiced in comparison to the traditional version, whereby the spice is used more subtly and probably better balanced.  Fortunately, our BIR/TA chefs know exactly what we want, and more often than not, hit the spot but they won't touch the stuff.

Just my two penneth,

Ray

[Les]

I hear what your saying Ray
So why can't traditional Indian cooking be made to our liking? (And your going to say it won't be traditional)
It makes me wonder what we are missing when the chef's that cook this stuff, won't touch it.

HS

[Razor]

Hi HS,

I hear what your saying Ray
So why can't traditional Indian cooking be made to our liking?

HS

I've got no idea mate, I guess our tastebuds are ever so slightly different than theirs?

I have an Indian friend called Jimmy (Chiman) and I was at his place a month or so back.  He offered me a cup of spicy tea, knowing my love of "Indian" food.  He boiled a pan of milk (whole) along with a cinnamon stick, lots of sugar, a piece of ginger, a bulb of garlic, and one or two other ingredients that I forget.  He strained the milk into a teacup and gave it a little sprinkle of Garam Masala.

It was without doubt, the vilest thing I've tasted in a long long time.  I honestly thought that he was taking the p***.

He was astonished that I didn't like, he simply couldn't not believe that I couldn't drink it, knowing my love of Indian food.  He wasn't offended, just dumbfounded that I thought it was well rank.

He told me that he had drunk this 'spicy tea' since he was a child back in India, and it was a firm favourite back home.  Just goes to show how different our tastebuds are!

I think that it must come from our childhoods, suffering years of bland British food, then from nowhere, you get this taste explosion that is BIR, and we are hooked forever, trying spicier and hotter dishes each time, until before you know it, our mouths are so heat resistant, it could actually survive re-entry into the earths atmosphere ;D

Ray