Topic: India Raj - North Town Aldershot - Curry Sauce

[George]

It is (in my opinion) no different to holding even more radical views, such as those shared by (say) the National Front; no-one would suggest for one second that you are not entitled to hold those views, but if you were to post them on a forum that was regularly used by Pakistanis. your actions could clearly create ill-feeling.  And it is the same here : many of us hold Kris Dhillon in great respect, for her ground-breaking work in publishing The Curry Secret.  And therefore it saddens us when we see her attacked, with neither proof nor justification, on the basis that "she is solely in it for the money"

This is REALLY worrying. You are comparing my poor opinion of most of the KD and PC recipes as somehow comparable to support for extreme political groups? I'm sure there have been many people at this forum before who've shared my low regard for most KD and PC recipes. If they were so good, there would not have been such a need for this forum? The proof and justification were the results in my own kitchen.

[Peripatetic Phil]

This is REALLY worrying. You are comparing my poor opinion of most of the KD and PC recipes as somehow comparable to support for extreme political groups?

No, George, I'm not : I'm simply saying that no-one is challenging your right to hold whatever views (on curries, immigration, the rights of women, or any other topic) you see fit -- all we are saying is that the repetition of such views, in a forum where these views are not universally shared, is something that begins to niggle after a while ...

** Phil.

[George]

This is REALLY worrying. You are comparing my poor opinion of most of the KD and PC recipes as somehow comparable to support for extreme political groups?

No, George, I'm not : I'm simply saying that no-one is challenging your right to hold whatever views (on curries, immigration, the rights of women, or any other topic) you see fit -- all we are saying is that the repetition of such views, in a forum where these views are not universally shared, is something that begins to niggle after a while ...

I'm fairly sure they were widely held views a few years ago but, as most of those members have moved on, perhaps the 'new' batch of members hold a different view. Or perhaps they don't. If 1000 members responded to a poll, it would give a better idea. I'm not going to be hushed up by you or anyone else, if I want to say how disappointed I was with KD1 (apart from the base sauce) and almost everything ever published by PC, which I view as no more than a shrewd money making venture.

[Stephen Lindsay]

This is REALLY worrying. You are comparing my poor opinion of most of the KD and PC recipes as somehow comparable to support for extreme political groups?

You have taken this comment too literally, I took it to mean that it was a metaphor for saying it is one thing to hold opinions and another thing to express them undiplomatically and therefore offend people at the same time.

I'm sure there have been many people at this forum before who've shared my low regard for most KD and PC recipes.

That may (or may not) be the case but they are able to express them appropriately.

If they were so good, there would not have been such a need for this forum?

This is not even logical, the forum reflects the views of lots of sources and recipes not just KD and PC.

The proof and justification were the results in my own kitchen.

Proof of what - that you don't like KD's recipes? Other will disagree so all you are proving is your own opinions to yourself.

Does all of this have to be so black and white George? You express opinions as if they are fact and do so far too aggressively. By the way that's not a fact, it's just my opinion. You are doing quite a good job of alienating yourself from some members at the moment but I expect your response to this is that you don't really give a damn. Again just my opinion.

[George]

I expect your response to this is that you don't really give a damn. Again just my opinion.

You're right there. I realise that I disagree with the mindset and whole way of thinking of certain members here, probably including you. The present mix of members is not as good as it was a few years ago. When did you join?

[Stephen Lindsay]

I realise that I disagree with the mindset and whole way of thinking of certain members here, probably including you.

Again that's a very all or nothing, black or white response George. I really don't know if you disagree with my mindset about Indian cookery, but I do take issue about the way you dismiss people's opnions.

The present mix of members is not as good as it was a few years ago. When did you join?

A perfect example of dismissing the rest of the forum by implication. Boy George it must be a depressing place having to put up with us sub-standard members.

George you have a member of this forum long enough to know where to find out when I joined.

[Razor]

If I may, I'd like to give my opinion on KD1.

Ok, like others, I agree, KD1 gave us a base sauce recipe that seemed to eluded many amateur curry cooks for so long.  As far as a base sauce goes, I think it comparable to many in terms of quality.  I have always been convinced that the base sauce is less important to the end dish than say the spice mix or the technique, the kd base confirms this theory to me.

As for the rest of the book (of which I have both the curry secret and the new curry secret) I'm not a fan.  Now I have not cooked everything from each, so maybe I'm being a tad unfair but, I just don't like the format of either of them.  Take for instance;

Most recipes are for 3-4 people.  This for me is not typical BIR way of cooking.  Individual portions seem to be the BIR way. so if I break down one of her recipes to cook as an individual portion, this is what I end up with;

Chicken Jal Frezi:

175g chicken breast
0.25 tsp turmeric
0.25 tsp grated ginger
0.5 tsp garam masala
0.25 tsp salt
0.125 tsp of chili powder
1 tbsp of veg oil
0.5 medium onion, cut into 2.5cm pieces
0.5 medium green pepper, cut into 2.5cm pieces
1 medium ripe tomato cut into quarters
0.25 of a green chili, chopped
1 tsp of tomato paste
37.5ml of curry base
Fresh coriander to garnish.

Ok, This is a recipe scaled down for 1 person based on the original being for 3-4 people.  Yes I've used the smallest scale of 1 quarter, as it better demonstrates my problem with the recipe.

I know for an absolute certainty, that this would not give me the kind of Jal Frezi that I'm used to.  37.5ml of base sauce is almost 1 9th of what I usually use, for a start.  I'm ok with the onion and pepper but I wouldn't use a whole tomato, perhaps half at the most.  Fresh chili's, I need at least 5 in a Jal Frezi split length ways as a minimum.  0.125 tsp of chili powder? sorry, 1 level tsp at the very least for me.  1 tbsp of oil? a good Jal Frezi needs at least 3 tbsp of oil, surely?

Most of the recipes from the book are typical of these quantities.  Yes I could increase but if I was a novice cook, and bought this book to take me as close to BIR as possible, I'd feel a little let down with the end result.

The chicken tikka recipe is shocking;

3 large chicken fillets
4 tbsp plain yogurt
0.5 tsp chilli powder
0.5 tsp salt
2 tsp cooking oil
Pinch of yellow food colouring.

Where is the flavour coming from?  The ashoka precooked chicken will no doubt give the same flavour but it isn't masquerading as a tikka.

Luckily for me, I didn't buy any of the KD books to get me started, I bought them purely to build up my library, so to speak, on all things curry related.  I know it may not sound like it, but I'm very glad I did.

Please don't take this as an attack on Kris, it isn't, it's just my view on what I think her books bring to the party, in my opinion.

Hope my views cause no offence to either Kris or her fans.

Ray

[Stephen Lindsay]

Hope my views cause no offence to either Kris or her fans.

I doubt it Ray because this is a very analytical post and you express, in a balanced way, both the positives and negatives of the KD approach. I am entirely in agreement with your comments about the amount of base required, it is well short of what I would use in a single recipe and would produce a dry, almost sauceless curry, as a result.

[Peripatetic Phil]

I doubt it Ray because this is a very analytical post and you express, in a balanced way, both the positives and negatives of the KD approach.

Exactly.  It is informed criticism rather than blanket dismissal.  As I have written elsewhere, I too find it necessary to modify Kris's recipes in order to achieve results that I regard as acceptable.  But that in no way makes me think less of her : she inspired me, and shewed me (as no-one had done before) that it was possible to re-create BIR in the domestic kitchen without needing Indic blood in one's veins.  And I also think that she erred on the right side (almost certainly deliberately); it is very easy to make one of her recipes, try it, and then think "If I were to add a little more ..., this could be quite good.".  But if she'd overspiced things from the outset, she could so easily have alienated anyone who followed her to the letter, to the point where they would simply not try one of her recipes again.

My two penn'orth, and a view which I hope won't annoy any other forum members, even those who joined before Kris was born 

** Phil.

[Razor]

Hi Stephen,

That's exactly my point.  I have no problems with the ingredients as such, well, maybe the use of garam masala, over spice masala but apart from that, it's just the quantities that I struggle with.

I would have like to have seen this addressed in the New Curry Secret, but unfortunately, the book edges a little further away from BIR as appose to it being closer IMO.

I know Phil has much success with KD but by his own admission, he has altered things to suit, which is great, and what we all could do.  Trying the recipes as spec though, won't, IMO, give a good BIR result first time round.

Ray