Topic: Chef Din: 1970's BIR

[bhamcurry]

a small observation on the "restaurant food tastes better" comments:

restaurants use a lot more salt than you think

restaurants use a lot more sugar than you think

restaurants use a lot more fat than you think

because salt, sugar, and fat make everything taste better, because we're programmed to crave them all.

[Peripatetic Phil]

They'd be hard put to to add more salt, sugar and fat than I do, and I still can't achieve their taste ...
--
** Phil.

[Secret Santa]

They'd be hard put to to add more salt, sugar and fat than I do, and I still can't achieve their taste ...

That's because those ingredients don't contribute to "the taste". Although I do agree all are used to excess in many eateries and not just curry houses.

[Secret Santa]

I think Secret Santa's use of the term 'low end takeaway' is useful, to distinguish from food which may be amongst the best you've ever had. I am only interested in preparing dishes with flavours which are about as good as it gets.

Don't get me wrong George. Certainly these are not even close to the best curries I've had but they are still decent by today's standards. If you've never done a chicken in base sauce type gravy I would recommend you try Chef Din's although the base of itself is not quite up to being a curry sauce and the vindaloo suffers as a consequence. The madras however, which adds bhuna onions and a smidgen of mix powder and benefits from the added spice from both, is much better.

[Bob-A-Job]

a small observation on the "restaurant food tastes better" comments:

restaurants use a lot more salt than you think

restaurants use a lot more sugar than you think

restaurants use a lot more fat than you think

because salt, sugar, and fat make everything taste better, because we're programmed to crave them all.

Hi,

I am not sure about more but maybe more concentrated?

We used to (when I was a child) make family stews... not a lot of meat but lots of vegetables.  Each day, servings were taken and the pot would be added to with more vegetables and maybe some meat. I continued this when I left home in my teens as a cheap way of having a meal.

I have had a few attempts recently where I have lost track of time and have left the base on a low heat for extended times, causing it to reduce substantially... but then when cooked with, the oil of the curry has really taken on the flavours, having been much more concentrated and I preferred in my lamb, madras and bhuna dishes.  I find it hard to get this flavour into chicken, so again, in the curry sauce that the meat sits in, it works, mostly.

Is it therefore a possibility that takeaways produce the base and that over hours (days or from the increased power of the burners) it reduces and liquid is added for consistency but the flavours are already there from the reduction that we do not get at home from smaller scale production?

BAJ

[britishcurries]

Summing up my thoughts:

1) There's much talk about the "missing 5%". There are two senses in which this might be interpreted. First, that something is being purposely withheld from us. Second, that some restaurants use ingredients we may be unaware of. I'm not convinced of the first, and agree with the second. BIR style curries have been discussed among enthusiasts for years, with input from ex BIR chefs, behind the scenes footage, and so on. It seems highly implausible that "the ones in on it" are averting our eyes from "the secret". Plausibility, not possibility, is interesting here. Ingredients, methods, and convictions vary from restaurant to restaurant, still more from region to region, so the suggestion borders on conspiratorial. To the extent it's claimed that the BIR taste is elusive, I just take that to mean a restaurant is using other ingredients or the same ingredients in different proportions or brands. However, I don't take there to be a specific ingredient/set of ingredients known by all good BIR chefs but withheld from us. Any talk of being able to reproduce the taste in a restaurant but not a home setting seems to me an artifact of the mind.

2) I've tried many base gravy recipes. The last base I made contained relatively little oil (120 mL for 2 kg). It was also the first time I made my base using the "add everything to the pot and boil" method. Every other base involved frying onions, garlic and ginger paste, spices, and blended plum tomatoes (or some combination of these). I'm not convinced that frying anything separately makes a difference. Since the non-frying method is easier, healthier, and just as tasty, the amount of oil typically used is superfluous. Re-using oil increases trans fat content, which makes it even more unhealthy.

3) I've tried many pre-cooked chicken recipes. My usual method is this: boil a chicken breast cubed in 500 mL water, one stock cube, and one teaspoon of mix powder. I don't understand the complaint of tough chicken. People warn to cook chicken for 10-15 minutes at most and even to run it under cold water to halt the cooking process. I've never done this. I boil chicken on low heat for 25-30 mins and keep it in the hot water, sometimes for over an hour. It's always tender. I tried Chef Din's pre-cooked chicken recipe. This involves cooking chicken in its own juices without any additional water. The idea is to stir for 10-15 minutes until the juices are released, cook, then let rest. I didn't notice a significant difference, and certainly not one that justifies the additional effort. My brother thought the same.

4) Chef Din's comment about sugar is... something. Someone said earlier in the thread that "wannabes" mention the Maillard reaction to create a pretense of knowledge. That might be true, but it doesn't change that the Maillard reaction actually occurs. In my experience, adding base gravy incrementally actually makes for better curries.

5) On the topic of things that actually work, I notice a difference when using a small amount of very finely chopped onions at the start of savory curries. Before trying this, I used a caramelized onion paste (see: "How to make Onion Paste (a Bunjarra for extra flavour in Curries) by Misty Ricardo.) Chopped onion works just as well, is easier, and more healthy, so I'll continue using that.

All in all, I don't think BIR curry making is as complex as it's made out to be, and that declarations to the contrary may be a case of the sunk-cost fallacy.

[George]

I used a caramelized onion paste (see: "How to make Onion Paste (a Bunjarra for extra flavour in Curries) by Misty Ricardo.)

Misty Ricardo should receive zero credit. The onion paste idea was around for at least 10 years before he appeared, to make money from other peoples' recipes.

[parabolic]

Livo,

I firmly believe that one of the reasons why self cooked curry's don't taste 100% great just after cooking at home is down to our nasal passage being absolutely overwhelmed by all the spices during cooking. Standard kitchen extractors are nothing like a commercial system to suck up the smells from the cookers. I have often found cooking currys outside in the fresh air where I'm not breathing in all the aromas that my curry tastes good straight out of the pan. I also believe that it might also add a little to the reason that the curry may taste better the day after because the nose has had so much time to reset.

Our sense of aroma has so much to do with how we taste things.

I'm betting that some spice fumes from cooking are doing what my mum used to do...pinching my nose shut so I couldn't taste that darn tablespoon of cod liver oil every morning before school!

Ok that stopped when I turned 12. I'm now nearly 42, perhaps I should start taking that stuff again?
Does anyone still do that?

[parabolic]

Misty Ricardo should receive zero credit. The onion paste idea was around for at least 10 years before he appeared, to make money from other peoples' recipes.

Agree 100%

[Secret Santa]

I firmly believe that one of the reasons why self cooked curry's don't taste 100% great just after cooking at home is down to our nasal passage being absolutely overwhelmed by all the spices during cooking.

You're treading a well trodden path on this forum with that statement. You're right to an extent but when I used to make curries and order curries in at the same time (don't ask) the smell of the delivered curry still hit me full in the face on opening the door to them despite being sensorily overloaded from the cooking process. I wish I knew what their secret was/is. Nowadays the curries just don't have the same powerful aroma, or at least it's very different and not the aroma I associate with the old style curries going back the the eighties. And before you say it I've still got good sense of smell. All other food I cook smells and tastes just like it did going waaaaay back.

One tip to enhance the flavour of the curry if eating just after having cooked it , which I came to realise quite late in my curry cooking experience, is to let the curry cool down before eating it. The difference, to me anyway, is like chalk and cheese, with the cooler version letting all the flavour through.

I'm betting that some spice fumes from cooking are doing what my mum used to do...pinching my nose shut so I couldn't taste that darn tablespoon of cod liver oil every morning before school!

Ok that stopped when I turned 12. I'm now nearly 42, perhaps I should start taking that stuff again?
Does anyone still do that?

I was fortunate to never have had that experience. And I never needed it because we ate simple but varied food that covered all the nutritional bases that are lacking in most diets these days.