Topic: Razor's Curry Base

[Razor]

CA,

Or maybe it's because your wife wasn't one of your three major loves in life!

The old one defo wasn't, the new one is.........almost ;D

Anyway, knowing that you use it in your recipes, what's your view on curry powder?

Ray

[emin-j]

The only difference to my usual Madras was the Curry Powder .

emin-j do you mean you added CP whereas you normally wouldn't or do you mean you changed the type of CP you used?

Yes SS , I don't normally use Curry Powder in my Curries but because our favourite T/A use it in their Spice mix I thought I would give it a go , I did ask the Chef how much of each Spice he put in the mix , but all he said was Coriander , Cumin , Turmeric , Curry Powder and Garam Masala but more Turmeric and Curry Powder  On the night of my Curry making I just got the amounts wrong but I'll certainly be adding Curry Powder to my Curries fromnow on , it's just a matter of how much 

[Cory Ander]

knowing that you use it in your recipes, what's your view on curry powder?

Similar to your's Ray:

Question:

Why add a made curry powder as well as your spice mix? What extra does a bought powder bring that your excellent spice mix doesn't have? The base looks fantastic and I want to make it later today, but I have a cupboard full of whole spices and no curry powder. Is it necessary?

Answer:

I add it for the minor spices that are generally present in a good curry powder that aren't in my masala/spice mix. 

It seems (from several reports here) that some BIRs add curry powder directly to their spice mix (probably for the same reason, I conclude).

However, I think you can safely replace the curry powder with my masala/spice mix (or vice versa).  The flavour might be a little different but, otherwise, no big shakes I feel

....though, I have to say, I otherwise share MP's sentiments.  Using "curry powder" seems to be a bit of a "cop out" and is bound to introduce a level of uncertainty, lack of control and none reproducibility in recipes (as will using commercial pastes or anything else commercially produced). 

I agree that it would be far better (and more controlled and more reproducible) to produce our own "curry powder" and not rely on potentially variable commercial products of an unknown composition.

No big shakes, just make your own curry powder and add some of that......

[Cory Ander]

PS:  Most curry powders are just some combination of tumeric, coriander, cumin and paprika/chilli powder anyway...plus minor amounts of (gram) flour, fennel, cinnamon, fenugreek, etc.

[Cory Ander]

PPS:  When I say "it's a bit of a 'cop out'", I don't mean by you, but by me (and BIRs) and by anyone else who specifies commercial curry powders and/or pastes too...

[Malc.]

Ray,

Good effort with the post. 

Can I just ask, I noticed that in the method you don't add the coriander until you add the water, but the 3rd pic and its description show that you have added it at the start. Can you clarify this please?

I don't have a problem with 'Curry Powder' being stated, as long as the brand is clearly shown as well. I hadn't given it any thought until the recent comments on the IG Spice Mix. It did make me look more closely at the curry powder I use. I haven't worked out what smell comes through most but I am sure its the combination of Curry Leaves and Fenugreek.

How do you feel this base compares to others that you have tried, will you move forward by adopting this one as your preferred base?

[Razor]

Hi Axe,

Can I just ask, I noticed that in the method you don't add the coriander until you add the water, but the 3rd pic and its description show that you have added it at the start. Can you clarify this please?

Well spotted   Add it with the water and not as I did at the frying stage.  I was on my 5th can of Budweiser at this point, and got a bit ahead of myself. :

How do you feel this base compares to others that you have tried, will you move forward by adopting this one as your preferred base?

Good question.  I don't feel it's any better or any worse than any of the decent bases on the forum.  Like I said earlier, I'm beginning to think the base is less important than the method.  Don't get me wrong, I know it plays it's part and I know a bad base can ruin a final dish but, as long as you've got your, onions, garlic, ginger and a good balance of spices, a base is a base......is a base!

How many variable bases do we have on the forum and yet not a single one stands out as 'the one'?  I'm not convinced that not one single base recipe from this forum doesn't come close, no way am I having that.  Even the ones reputed to have originated in either a BIR or TA.

It's got to be something else!  Same with the spice masala's, I don't believe that none of them come close either, or maybe it's just that we are not linking the correct base with the correct spice masala, with the correct method?

This is why reports like yours Axe, trying to attain the IG road map, are so valuable.  With that said, I'm willing to wager that, even if yo do manage to gather what we all need, there will still be a large percentage of members that will fail to replicate what you intend them to.  And that could even be down to the brand of there spices, origin of onions, garlic, ginger and so on...

Will I develope this base to use as standard?  I could and do, use it now as standard and have no real noticeable differences in my final dish.  I have developed it as far as leaving out a lot of the usual optionals, such as, peppers (red or green) carrot, potato and even mooli, which I've seen somewhere on here before.  Nothing really grabs my attention on the changes enough to make them my standard, if you catch me drift?

With that said, It's still a decent base but, I'm not going to tell anyone that this is 'the one' this is the one that we've all be waiting for, because it just simply is not.  Neither are any of the bases on the forum and like I said in an earlier post, I personally think it's down to the way we mange the base after it's cooked.

Are you considering giving it a go Axe?

Ray

[Malc.]

Budweiser can do that.

That's a fair reply and I know exactly what you mean. I realised a little while back, that no matter how many recipes for finished dishes or base, spice mix, GG Puree, etc. there are, none of them will work unless used like for like. As you say, perhaps we just haven't tried the right combo yet.

I do have a slightly different stance on it though. The IG for instance has a base that appears in colour unlike any base I have seen on this forum. That is not important but what is, is that this means this base tastes different. In order for them to reproduce a typical madras for example, they need to add the missing flavours from their base or not add the extra flavours, if you get my meaning. this means that they compensate for this by changing the spice mix, etc. The point here brings us to what you said, if we don't use like for like, we will never manage to get the right result.

The problem for me at least, is that any base that mentions the use of tomato goes against what I have been told by the IG so far. In as much as they don't use tomato in their base.

This is why I have, until very recently, refrained from making base. But  not having time to return to the IG yet, my hand was forced.
 

[Razor]

Hi Axe,

The IG for instance has a base that appears in colour unlike any base I have seen on this forum. That is not important but what is, is that this means this base tastes different.

It's a good point that you make mate.  I seem to remember you saying that the IG has been around for 30+ years? run by the same brothers.  The base they make, my be very simple and typical of the bases that was around in the 70's and 80's (old skool)

And it is also logical to me, that as the BIR has taken off in the way it has, there is a commercial need to knock these dishes out quicker, meaning, adding more ingredients to the base, and less at the final stage!

This could be the change in the BIR taste that we have all noticed over the years?
I also seem to remember the old skool BIR dish being more oily than that of those dishes today.  Again, this is logical.  If their base was a simple one, and they had to increase on the spices in the final dish, they would require more oil!

I'd be willing to knock up a base of consisting of just onions, garlic, ginger, salt, maybe carrot, maybe peppers, coriander and perhaps turmeric as the only spice.  And almost treble the spices at the final dish in way too much oil, just to see what it brings.  It couldn't do no harm, could it?

Interesting.  The more I think of this, the more likely I am to give it a go.  Do you remember Madras and Vindaloos in the 80's?  Damn, they was hot, much hotter than today.  This could be attributed to more spicing at the dish stage, and I don't just mean chili powder!

Cheers Axe, that's given me plenty to think about

Ray

[Malc.]

Ray,

I could never handle hot dishes back then and stuck with only mild dishes. Perhaps that's why I haven't really needed a base yet as I have concentrated on starter sides more than I have 'curry'.

I have my notes with me that I took down at the IG Bhaji Demo. This is what I have for the base as written down. I will try and explain how they are connected to the conversations taking place, but please remember that this was all very much worked in whilst the demo was taking place. Also note that there is no mention of spice mix or anything else that may be in the base as I did not get to that part.

Conversation 1 (Part ingredients)
Garlic & Ginger (fry in plenty oil to brown)
1/2 Potato
 Green Pepper
1/2 Lemon
Onion sliced
 Water to soften

Conversation 2 (Infusion)
Cinnamon 6/7 (this means cassia bark pieces but could be inches)
Bay 6/7 (not clear on type of bay)
Cardamom 10
Cloves pinch (not clear if this is whole but suspect it is)

 Boil 1/2 hour

Now picture this, i'm in the small kitchen watching the onions being turned for the Bhaji and i'm asking all manor of questions. During this brief encounter about base, I also get an overview of tomato puree and how they treat it with garlic etc. This came from my questions about them using Tomato in the base. This was scribbled:

White Tower, Oil, Garlic, Fry to brown, Add Paste, Add Water

I also managed to get the IG Spice Mix recipe, where he literally dragged me into the back room (store room) and mixed it in front of me.

I'm then back in the kitchen actually making bhaji and deep frying them. All the while I am firing questions at them. I know they fry spices for the Pilau Rice but what I don't know. I manage to pick up on the Panch Puran and see pre-cooked chicken, lamb, Potato and Mushroom in the fridge.

Being in Aladdin's Cave, it was hard to keep my mind focused and I scribbled notes frantically.

I even scribbled his recipe for a Korma:

Coconut Powder 1/2 Chef Spoon
Sugar 1/3 Chef Spoon
Mix Powder 1 tsp
Single Cream or Evaporated Milk
1 Ladle Gravy

Take from it what you will its had me upside down at times when reading some of the recipes and opinions on here. I don't mean that in a bad way though, just that I wonder why my findings have been, well, quite different at times.

This is why I have struggled to find a base that is similar.