Topic: IG Onion Bhaji (Kitchen Demonstration)

[CurryOnRegardless]

Nah, something's not quite right, I'm afraid, Chris....I smell a fish 

Strictly speaking, if it has potato in it, it's a pakora, not an onion bhaji.  I suggest that, if you're looking for "the perfect onion bhaji", that is "traditional BIR", you lose the potatoes  :

Only my opinion, of course 

Mine too, and my local T/A and they really do 'know their onions' so to speak. According to them it's onions in a bhaji and spuds etc in a pakora, can't get any info out of them about how they make them though all they say is 'years of experience', then give you that condescending grin!

Regards
CoR

[Malc.]

Axe, have you asked him why he adds potato and if they have always done it that way?  If not, can you please?

I did express my surprise at the use of the potato too which they replied simply. They add just a very small amount of potato to help make the bhaji crispy and give that essential consistency to the centre.

When I return, I will ask how long they have been making them like that. Though I expect the answer will be 35 years. They were very insistent that they make everything in-house and that they had been doing this for the 35 years they have been in BIR.

I am surprised that they even bother with potato considering how little goes in, but they are the finest Onion Bhaji I have ever eaten. I can't therefore question it, now I have seen it for my own eyes.

Jerry, the spice mix is something that surprised me too, more so as to the way it is made.  It was explained to me that the only reason the Paprika is used, is for colour. He then added a proportion of each spice to a dish and mixed it through. Not happy with the colour he added a little more paprika until he was happy. He must have thought I didn't believe him so he took the mix to his main tub of mix and said 'look, i'll add this to the tub now'. Afterwhich, I decided to take him at his word, especially as it was exactly the same .

[JerryM]

Axe,

the paprika is the main reason i tend to use more than one mix (some dishes don't want the extra colour). however this mix seems to have just enough of it as u say - giving that extra bit of flavour and colour but without going out of balance.

i am well pleased with u're report on the mix powder - i was intending a spice mix journey and now feel i don't need to. a lot of work saved - many thanks.

i will cook with the mix this week and post in the relevant spice mix post.

[Cory Ander]

i am well pleased with u're report on the mix powder - i was intending a spice mix journey and now feel i don't need to. a lot of work saved - many thanks.

I really don't understand that Jerry?  This spice mix is little different than many others reported here (i.e. coriander, cumin, turmeric, curry powder and paprika/chili powder).  How and why has it eradicated your need for your "spice journey"?

[JerryM]

CA,

u're aka spice mix alerted me to the fact that other spices could well be added to mix powder. in fact i added the aka to LB & kushi that i keep as stock.

i still feel i have a gap that i can't really put my finger on (got some friends hopefully guinea pig ready soon to give a view on whether their really is a gap). my local TA will grudgingly talk BIR at a push on most things and although they won't give the full picture they will give a bit of an idea. however on spice mix they won't discuss full stop. this made me suspicious.

Mikka then raised the idea of a spice journey and i realised that of all the jigsaw pieces i probably know least about the effect of spices at dish frying.

given that Axe's report seems pretty safe in terms of genuine BIR owners and their practises i'm more relaxed that time could be better spent exploring recipe refinement as this can only be where my gap is.

i think in the main we must produce very similar quality (i've copied u). i think my bases must be slightly different but everything else i feel is a close match.

i am open to thoughts. the initial list i posted a few weeks ago is not it. i do intend getting asian bay, black cumin and trying panch poran in base whole spice.

[Razor]

Hi Axe,

Had a go at these tonight.  They turned out really well far better than I thought they were gonna be

I made them tennis ball size and got 4 big ones and a little un out of the quantities that you scaled down for us,  does that sound about right?

They were cooked right through even though I'd forgotten to break them open slightly on the second cook.

I added a little too much orange food colouring and at one stage, they did look like big tangerines   but the cooking sorted that out

I think the adding of the gram flour isn't an exact science is it? I added what you suggested but felt like it was still a bit wet so I added more, about a handfull. 

These bahji's were quite 'weighty' and I wouldn't eat more than 1 as a starter

I'm gonna have a go at these again next weekend but, I will do what the IG did, and I will chop the onions the night before, and I will sprinkle with the salt to draw out the water.  As I said, I thought the mix was quite wet meaning that I had to add more gram flour, I think this is what made them so heavy.  I'ts not a problem if this doesn't work, they are still leagues ahead of anything else that I've tried.

I couldn't get Aniseed so I did use fennel seed but the thinner smaller variety

I will take photo's of next weeks efforts, step by step.

Thank's Axe

Ray

[Malc.]

Ray, I think the recipe might need refining and I have considered that the most important part is what people perceive to be a large onion.

When I did the recipe yesterday I used 5 small onions which was too much. It would have better with 4 which would have matched closer to 2 large Spanish onions. I concluded that the 5 small onions needs a whole egg and close 1.5-2 cups of grams flour.

I would not salt the onions in advance but leave them in room temperature to allow them to soften.

There is definitely a technique to rolling the bahji up in wet hands, I wish I had caught this on video. But I do believe that the wet finish this puts on the bhaji helps to prevent it from burning.

Aniseed is definitely worth finding if you can.

[Cory Ander]

Recipe for smaller portion moved to bottom of  #1 post of this thread by CA (here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4443.msg40705#msg40705). 

The following are associated replies:

Reply by JerryM:

Axe,

i presume this is the recipe u refer to to try.

i would go for 130C being medium and 180C for the final fry. does this seem right or did u note the temps.

i can't spot the fennel in the recipe.

by Axe:

Jerry, actually at the time of posting, I meant my original recipe but now I would suggest you try the latter. Of course you are welcome to try the original too.

My mistake on the Fennel, I have added it in. I have also increased the 1/4 spoons to a 1/2.

Please feel free to discuss this.

by Razor:

is that fennel seeds?  lol

[by Axe:

is that fennel seeds? lol

Yes! ;D

by JerryM:

i'm real taken to this recipe and will adopt as std from now on. many thanks Axe - i'm now sorted on bhajis.

i don't feel there is a step difference in the ingredients/proportions from what i've tried before - i suspect much is down to the cooking method.

i cooked 1st stage at 150C for 5 mins, left them to cool and then cooked 2nd stage at 180C for 1.5 mins. worked a treat.

i used 380g onion, 110g gram, 60g potato.

i'm still not convinced on the need to "gently break" after 1st stage but it ain't that much effort so why not.

on making again i must remember to give the fennel a very quick wiz in the blender (u want them half size) - the whole seeds are too big and don't break down like the cumin (i added both as seeds).

the only difficulty i had was on the amount of flour to add. i used 0.5 cup initially (75g) and the bhajis would not squash together and hold so the 1st 4 off cooked were too open in texture. i then added 0.25 cup more and the mix was spot on.

Ingredients


After 1st stage cook


After 2ns stage cook


by Axe:

Jerry,

This is good news indeed. I note your comments on the Fennel seeds. We have since established that the restaurant were actually using Aniseed. Which are very similar to Fennel seed but slightly smaller. I don't have any as yet but I intend to track some down.

Was half a beaten egg enough and how do you rate the spicing levels, heavy, light or just right? I ask as I am unsure whether 1/2 tsp is to much and should be 1/4 tsp intead.

PS your making me hungry!

JerryM:

Axe,

everthing was spot on - just right. i tell u i was well impressed and so was the good lady.

interesting on the aniseed - i've never seen it and would like to try it as i use fennel in base and it's the closest i've got. i do like feneel and fine with aniseed too.

Axe:

Wohoo, could it be we have cracked it. Chris will be made up, I hope his trials are as successful.

chriswg:

I sure am! I'll be heading over to our local massive Tesco that has the best world foods section I've ever seen. Can't wait.

Axe:

Actually alot of my spice cupboard is from Tesco. Not for any other reason than it was cheap and available in bulk. I haven't seen Aniseed in stock though.

We do have a really good Indian Grocer in Brighton. I haven't visited it purely down to location and parking, but I feel a reel need to go have a peek now.

JerryM:

we certainly need chriswg's thoughts on it - he's put far more effort in than anyone i know.

for me and the family our search on this bit is done.

ps Axe u've got to get into that asian store. working in one would be the next best thing to cooking in a BIR for me (well peeling onions - i could not keep up with the orders) .

COR:

We do have a really good Indian Grocer in Brighton. I haven't visited it purely down to location and parking, but I feel a reel need to go have a peek now.

Was in Brighton earlier this week, would that grocer be the Taj, by any chance? Had a nosy round the place, bloody sight cleaner and tidier than any Asian grocers round here and a good bit dearer as well!!

Cheers
CoR

Axe:

Yes it is Taj, what did you think of the selections in there? I am hoping to have a look today.  I think price is due inpart to them taking advantage of the Brighton scene and the fact they offer organic produce. I've read several reviews all of which highly rate the store. Not withstanding the credibility of the review originator. I'm sure there are many other 'cheaper' alternatives available though.

COR:

Yes it is Taj, what did you think of the selections in there?
...... I think price is due inpart to them taking advantage of the Brighton scene and the fact they offer organic produce.

Hi Axe,

They had pretty much everything you're ever likely to need I think. Agree about the 'Brighton scene' thing, it's the most 'posh deli' kind of Asian grocers I've ever set foot in, very nice actually.
Talking of pricey, we had a couple of drinks in a pub in the Lanes (I think) bit, the Pump House, and the larger in there is cheaper than in my 'grim oop north' local boozer!

Regards
CoR

Axe:

Chris....aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! I have just returned from the weekly shop with a double size bag.   

CoR, On the way over to the usual global superpower that is Tesco we dropped into Raj and glad I did too. they do seem to quite a selection. I have picked up some Aniseed and several Pataks pastes (boo hiss, yes I know i'm the first to preach not using them) that aren't usually available.

The good old Pump House eh, had many a fine pint of ale from there, that would be the South Lanes. Did you try the Italian across the way, very good indeed.

chriswg:

I just finished a batch of these and WOWOWOWOWOW!!!

I think the method was the biggest winner for me, but the taste is also right up there with the best. Serve these up to me in any BIR in the country and I would be happy. Very happy.

The biggest surprise was the fact I ate them after a single cook through. I have 4 left in the fridge ready for a second cook but really there isn't much need. They were excellent after a single cook through.

I used fenugreek seeds as Tesco let me down on aniseed seeds but they were fine.

The oil temperature is absolutely critical, if you don't have a thermostat controlled deep fryer (like me) then go spend ?5 on a decent thermometer - ours is a sugar one I think.

The trick seems to be starting them off at a slightly lower temperature and letting the heat build up. My best results were when I put 3 in at 125 degrees and had the gas on full. After about 5 minutes the temperature was up to around 150 degrees which I kept it at by reducing the heat. These things need at least 8 minutes to cook through. If yours are dark brown or black after 5 mins you can guarantee they will be bitter and still raw in the middle.

I have attached a couple of pictures. for me the results of the method were flawless - 10 out of 10. The flavour might need a tiny bit of tweaking but this is probably unneccessary. I couldn't pinpoint anywhere the flavour was lacking but I'll probably mess around with other seeds, fresh chillies, hing e.t.c. to see what the results are. When I need a reliable batch I'll be using these!

I think for the first time on this forum we can draw a line under a definitive BIR recipe. They will even work as flat patties (if squashed after first cook) or they can go as big as baseballs. Everyone should be happy. (although I bet some aren't!)





I forgot to say a massive thanks to Axe. I'm really pleased I was bored at work and stumbled across your post on the Pigeonwatch forum!

emin-j:

I forgot to say a massive thanks to Axe. I'm really pleased I was bored at work and stumbled across your post on the Pigeonwatch forum!

You into Guns then chriswg ?

Axe:

Chris, they look spectacular. I have Dipuraja's Tikka marinating and my first cook batch draining as we speak. We did a couple of testers and the wife had a big bloomin' smile on her face. Then pointed out the window, I turned to look and when I looked back the second tester was being demolished to the tune of mmmm, mmmmmm. Guess i've scored some Brownie points tonight.

Thanks for all the comments, i'm just glad we have arrived at the finishing line.

chriswg:

You into Guns then chriswg ?

Thats not how I found the post but as a weird coincidence I am. I'm chairman for Camberley Rifle and Pistol club (or CRAP for short!).

Axe, my wife was a big fan too. She polished off one and a half 'tasters'.

It will be interesting to see how others get on with the recipe. It's quite hard to describe how to cook them properly. I might have to get around to shooting a quick video.

By the way when I made them I used a whole egg for 2 medium onions. I added almost everything to the onions and gave it a good mix. Then added the egg and gave it a mix, then finally the salt. I then added gram flour a bit at a time until I had a nice sticky consistency. Wetting your hands before forming the balls is also essential not only to stop them sticking to your hands but I think the extra water helps form the skin on the outside of the bhaji. That probably makes no sense but might once you give it a go.

Axe:

It makes alot of sense Chris, this was the sort of thing happening when I did them in the Kitchen Demo.

Having made some tonight and comparing the feel to the kitchen demo. I have decided that the working of the onion in such large quantities breaks them down a little. They were certainly alot softer than the fresh onion I did tonight. This will explain why my first attempts will not need pulling apart.

chriswg:

The overnighter in the fridge might have softened them a bit too while not losing their moisture content.

By the way, those potato matchsticks really need to be thin. A couple of my bhajis looked like they had French fries sticking out of them!

Axe:

I cut my match sticks to the size of a match stick, they seem ok. 

Next time I do a batch, I will add a whole egg and a little more flour. I am not too worried about the softness of the onion, a stickier batter will resolve this.

The softer onion allows a better round shape to be formed. I think as far as that is concerned, its horses for courses. The overall taste and texture is good.



JoshAllen:

I made these tonight and they were superb.

I couldn't find any aniseed, so went with the fennel.

Great recipe. Thank you Axe.

-- Josh

CA:

I used fenugreek seeds as Tesco let me down on aniseed seeds

Do you mean fennel?

I think for the first time on this forum we can draw a line under a definitive BIR recipe

I don't see what is significantly different about this recipe (apart from the potato) or the method than several other onion bhaji recipes on the forum Chris?  Presumably, you're refering to the recipe in post #6 in this thread?

chriswg:

Yes I meant Fennel seeds (I hope).

I think this recipe brings together a lot of what we already knew but presents it in a way that is very easy to follow and is clearly a good insight into how most BIR's do it (judging by the results). I agree there is nothing revolutionary in the ingredient list but maybe that's the point. It keeps it simple.

I also really like the cooking method, its the first time I have made a bhaji that big that has been perfectly cooked. If you look back through the other recipes and the accompanying photos (including mine and yours) there aren't any that look exactly like BIR standard, until you get to this post and now we have 2 separate examples of (IMO) perfect looking bhajis following the same recipe.

This might be a coincidence, it might be down to the fact that Axe and I have dedicated more time than most to the art of bhaji frying but I think anyone will be able to follow this recipe and get good results.

The key things are salt in last to keep the water in the onion (contrary to previous thoughts), use just enough flour to get everything sticky (I wouldn't describe it as onions in batter, more like batter stuck to onions) and to form them really gently in wet hands to keep lots of air inside the bhaji. This last point is crucial to get the hot oil to the centre of the bhaji.

CA:

I also really like the cooking method

I'm still not too sure how you and (particularly) Axe cooked them?

JerryM:

the best way to cook them is in a deep fryer (takes all the hit and miss out). u do ideally need a 2nd fryer though as it spoils the oil for chips.

1st stage is 150C for 5mins. at this point a chriswg say's they are good enough to eat (and difficult not to). let them cool completely. 2nd stage 180C for 1.5 mins.

chriswg has given some real good tips in his post (amount of flour, wet hands). the only slight difference that i found was that i didn't particularly handle them gently - i did find it necessary as said earlier to rotate them more than i normally would in order to get the formed ball.

i also found it necessary to turn them once in the fryer during cooking (one of dippies tips).

[chriswg]

Cory - I just half filled a large saucepan with fresh vegetable oil (KTC big cardboard box variety). and heated it up to 125 degrees. I gently formed the bhajis into palm sized balls (with wet hands) and dropped them in. I then brought the temperature back up to around 130 - 140 degrees so they could cook for the full 8 - 10 minutes without going too dark.

Razor - you really dont want to be drawing the water out of the onions using salt. Infact it is quite the opposite. I think this has been one of the biggest breakthroughs of this last week. If you salt them they will go soft and you wont be able to get the air holes within the bhaji.

Hope this helps.

[Razor]

Hi Chris,

Razor - you really dont want to be drawing the water out of the onions using salt. Infact it is quite the opposite. I think this has been one of the biggest breakthroughs of this last week. If you salt them they will go soft and you wont be able to get the air holes within the bhaji.

Ok, fair enough, I'm now convinced that this is a no no   I will chop the onions the night before and see what that bring.  I just felt that I'd used too much gram flour at the end making them a bit heavy.  However, they were cooked all the way through, the addition of the extra flour just enabled me to shape them better.

Thanks for the tips guys.

Ray