Topic: Base Sauce or Stock?

[Malc.]

Ray, I can't imagine a BIR using more than one base, it wouldn't be practical for them.  Having now seen various mixes and the tomato sauce/puree, I am certain of this. The statement as you say, clearly points this out.

Jerry, when I was discussing the base with the owner, he was saying a very similar thing and did say you can't do this at home. What I determined from this was that he was saying this for two reasons:

1) The base if you really consider, is a very delicate blend of spices. considering the amount of onion and water used, the spice is a very small part in ratio. Trying to replicate this ratio at home would be very hard to do without any bulk cooking involved.

2) He simply couldn't understand why I wanted to replicate BIR and refer to my previous observations in that he would rather have told me how to cook 'real' curry.

[Derek Dansak]

Hi Axe, i actually purchased some bir base and cooked a madras with it. It made no difference to the taste of my curry when compared to using a plain safron cr0 base. i concluded the magic does not reside in the base. there are some other key skills chefs use to get the taste. The base is very important, but wont give the taste without some other key skills. I spent too long experimenting with endless different bases, with no real improvment to my curries. since moving on to making chnages to my spicing of final curry i am getting much better results. Not sure if other members have had a similar experience to this??   i would be interested to hear?

[PaulP]

Hi DD, I've only made 3 bases: SnS 2008, CA and Taz but I have cooked a lot with all of them.

I would tend to agree that the curries I have made with these taste fairly similar and none of them have helped me produce 100% BIR so far.

I've settled on the Taz one for main use but hope to receive some more spices soon to try out different approaches to the final cooking stage. I would be interested to know what kind of spicing you are using for the final cooking stages.

Paul.

[Derek Dansak]

Hi Paul P, i am just experimenting with all spices, cardoman, fenuggreek seeds, onion seeds, cinemon, mustard seeds, poppy seeds. adding a little to each madras, and trying to gauge if its nearer or further from bir taste. It seems to take a few attempts to really taste whats going on. its not as easy as i thought it would be. I am no longer just aiming for bir taste , as its more fun just experimenting creating my own style and taste. Its debatable if my new approach will get closer to bir or not. I suspect not, but what else is there to try after 2 years ? sadly no one is willing to seriously help cr0 members on our quest. 

[Malc.]

no one is willing to seriously help cr0 members on our quest. 

I spoke to the owner of my local again today, who popped into my office. I was glad of this as I wanted to confirm everything was still on for my kitchen demo tomorrow.

He's a lovely chap, happy go lucky but he knew I was going to ask questions again and said, you have to come for the demo as it is the only way. We must show you as we can't tell you, we don't know the English for alot of it.

He's been in the game 35 years and as i've mentioned before, is very much old school. He is very keen to allow me to visit for a demo and hopefully I will manage to get a demo for the gravy (base) at some point as well.

Given all the barriers language, processes, recipes, etc. its not surprising.

I just pray that tomorrows demo is fruitful.

[Malc.]

Having returned from the demo I am somewhat in ore of the way in which they wield their magic in the kitchen. Specifically there for the Bhaji demo I was also trying to keep tabs on everything else.

I can't stress how very happy they were for me to watch and have openly invited me back for anything I want to get involved with. To say I am chuffed is an understatement.

What I did learn is that if you want any accurate information about what is going on you don't talk the brother who runs the business generally, you ask the brother that runs the kitchen. It would seem that some of the info I had been given was not entirely accurate, like the spice mix which was supposed to have the Panch Puran in it, which didn't. (Se IG Spice Mix http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.0 )

Anyway, I am hoping to get back to watch them make the gravy but I can add the following comments on how it is generally done, in their kitchen:

They fry Ginger & Garlic until lightly browned adding in 1 green pepper, spice mix and 1 chopped potato. The onions are added as well as half a lemon as is. A little water is added to prevent anything burning while the onions are softened.

While this is happening they simmer 6 cinnamon sticks, 6 bay leaves, 10 green cardomans and 10 cloves, in water for about 45 mins to infuse the water. The infused water is strained of solids and added to the onions and topped with just enough water to cover the onion whilst it cooks for a further 2 hours or so. It is allowed to cool before it is then blended to a thin sauce like consistency.

[peterandjen]

Thanks Axe for the helpful insights to the base, its the first really different way of doing things i have seen so far anywhere. Infusing the water with spices before adding to the onions is a good way of stopping your spices burning.
The other way of doing it is the way i make my sauce and thats to cook the onions and veg and throw the spice mix into it with water and then boiling, yours is a different way still.
I think ill pick my recipe apart and try your way, it sounds good.
The only thing ill really have to leave out is the lemon as my missus has a citrus allergy, but i can always add mango powder instead.
Spiced water, nice

[Razor]

Hi Axe, peterandjen

Have a look at this base that I have used previously  http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4283.0

Not exactly the same as the one you report on Axe, but note the whole spices that go into it.  I'm guessing that this base would produce very similar results to the one in the link.

Let us know what you think,

Ray

[Malc.]

I have edited my post to show that the spiced water is added to the onion with the whole spices having been removed. Just incase this wasn't understood.

As was pointed out to me by the chef, whole spices can't be blended into the sauce.

Perhaps one of the most interesting comments that he made was when I asked him what it was that makes one restaurant set apart from another, is it the gravy, the spice mix?

His reply: "Gravy and spice mix is purely a choice of the individual chef. Some work for themselves and others do not. We take great care to make sure the gravy and spice mix is made to our standards as it is our business, not somebody else's". "You as the customer decide what you prefer".

He also went on to say that the methods and recipes they use, are an amalgamation of cuisine common to different areas of India. Or as he put it, "we have picked a little from each". Keeping in mind they are from Bangladesh.

He also commented on how he didn't want his various dishes to appear the same as some other restaurants do. Explaining along the way, that the base was perhaps less spiced than others to give him more control when creating the dish. "I do not add tomato as I can add a little puree when I create the sauce". This was the point he showed me the tomato puree today.

[JerryM]

Axe,

tantalising stuff.

i can see your man knows his stuff for sure. the proportions of whole spice are useful to me and i will revise what i use along those lines. i don't use clove and perhaps i need to re think this.

really pleased for u.