Topic: MSG

[Cory Ander]

Off topic posts moved from this thread by CA: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4069.msg36854#msg36854

Posted by secret santa:

I haven't played with MSG for years, other than when it's combined with things like All Purpose Seasoning. The thought suddenly strikes me that this may be the answer to my otherwise perfectly seasoned curries tasting too salty next day when cold.

It might be time for a little experimentation as I think more MSG and far less salt might overcome this problem - and perhaps take me one step closer to the curies of old!

Reply by chinois:

I haven't played with MSG for years, other than when it's combined with things like All Purpose Seasoning. The thought suddenly strikes me that this may be the answer to my otherwise perfectly seasoned curries tasting too salty next day when cold.

Worth a shot, after all the word 'savoury' is the predominant description that comes from people talking about those curries.
I stopped using it bcos i couldnt tell much difference, only to find that i'd been using too little. I used triple the amount one day (cooking chinese food) and i realized what the point was. It did make it a lot tastier. I havent tried it again on curry.

Try using about 1tsp in a portion. In a kitchen in udaipur where the food was BIR-like they added it pretty early, with the spices and methi i think. Anyone else know if this is normal?
Also remember that using a bit of lemon balances the savoury and salty tastes, making everything taste more.

Reply by joshallen2k:

ry using about 1tsp in a portion. In a kitchen in udaipur where the food was BIR-like they added it pretty early, with the spices and methi i think.

I've been playing with MSG lately. Certainly not a whole teaspoon, but I have no issues giving that a try to see if I can find a more pronounced effect.

As for "when", it is interesting that the BIR you saw put it in at the spice stage. The recipes I've seen with MSG (particularly Chinese, like the fried rice recipe on this site) mostly add it right at the end, so that's what I've been doing in my curry trials.

I will try upping the amount and adding with the spices to see if the difference is a step forward or back...

Reply by chinois:

ry using about 1tsp in a portion. In a kitchen in udaipur where the food was BIR-like they added it pretty early, with the spices and methi i think.

I've been playing with MSG lately. Certainly not a whole teaspoon, but I have no issues giving that a try to see if I can find a more pronounced effect.

As for "when", it is interesting that the BIR you saw put it in at the spice stage. The recipes I've seen with MSG (particularly Chinese, like the fried rice recipe on this site) mostly add it right at the end, so that's what I've been doing in my curry trials.

I will try upping the amount and adding with the spices to see if the difference is a step forward or back...

Same here really. Any recipe i've seen for chinese adds it at the end. Maybe this could just be a habit people got into, like we did with salt. Chefs will tell to cook with the salt, not just dump it on at the end. The bangladeshi chef in hampshire who gave me a demo added his salt with the spices and methi.
Could be similar with MSG?
Heston Blumenthal talks about how savoury(or umami) tastes multiply when combined, which isnt the same with sour or sweet food. The reason why beef or lamb works best with black bean sauce or oyster sauce is bcos they are all savoury. This is why MSG works best with these dishes rather than, say, lemon chicken.
So MSG should reinforce the taste of a curry, if yours is nicely savoury already. Especially with lamb.

Reply by secret santa:

I got a bag of MSG the other day so there'll be some experimenting soon.

With regard to when it should be added, there's one thing to bear in mind. Apparently if MSG is cooked at high temperatures for extended time it turns into a poison! There was a very good article which, as usual, I can't find now, that gave the chemistry involved in the reaction.

So, I reckon you wouldn't want to add it at the spice stage where the temp is high. You'd more likely want to always add it at the end just before serving, which seems to be what the Chinese do.

Reply by artistpaul:

I got a bag of MSG the other day so there'll be some experimenting soon.

With regard to when it should be added, there's one thing to bear in mind. Apparently if MSG is cooked at high temperatures for extended time it turns into a poison! There was a very good article which, as usual, I can't find now, that gave the chemistry involved in the reaction.

So, I reckon you wouldn't want to add it at the spice stage where the temp is high. You'd more likely want to always add it at the end just before serving, which seems to be what the Chinese do.

Totally agree Secret Santa

Never fry it!

I use it after the base has gone in.

The Chinese are the masters when it comes to MSG and they add it near the end too.

I find a large pinch per person elevates the dish

Reply by PaulP:

I must admit I've never tried MSG in my curries but use it all the time in my Chinese style chicken fried rice.

I agree it's probably safer to add near the end of cooking.

Reply by joshallen2k:

Thanks SS for the tip on it turning to poison under high heat. I think I will skip the "fry with spices" idea. Seems inconsistent with every usage of MSG I've ever seen.

Apparently MSG is making a comeback: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/03/health/main5131323.shtml

Maybe others are seeking to make the 70's/80's curries  ;D

[extrahotchillie]

I always use it

[joshallen2k]

I made a Madras tonight, using the reduction method, adding a tsp of MSG, and a tbsp of bunjara. It was absolutely superb.

My problem is that I have nothing to compare it to, other than memories of BIR Madras.

I do know that if I was served this in a restaurant, I would be thrilled.

I think the MSG improved the dish.

[JerryM]

josh,

i've been undecided on this and had just parked it. given what u say i think i'll have to try it again on the next base.

last time i tried it - it did sort of "elevate" the dish as Secret Santa says.

given how crucial salt is and the suggestion that u might be able to balance it more healthily with MSG is also another plus.

[Kashmiri Bob]

Hmm.  This is interesting.  I've avoided MSG as too much keeps me awake at night (L-glutamate is the main excitatory amino acid neurotransmitter in the human brain). Some TAs I know over do it for sure, particularly noticable in the vegetable dishes. But it is an remarkable flavour enhancer.  Most of the Asian shops stock it.  Reckon I'll give it a go. Tip of the tsp to start with. 

[Secret Santa]

Well there's a blast from the past. I notice my original post was from January 2010 and guess what, I've still got most of the original bag of MSG in my 'don't throw away - might use one day' box. That pretty much says how effective I found adding MSG.

I still think its effect is person dependent because no matter how much I use or in what dish, curry or Chinese, it seems to make no difference to the taste - but does give me a raging thirst.

[Peripatetic Phil]

Hmm.  This is interesting.  I've avoided MSG as too much keeps me awake at night (L-glutamate is the main excitatory amino acid neurotransmitter in the human brain). Some TAs I know over do it for sure, particularly noticable in the vegetable dishes. But it is an remarkable flavour enhancer.  Most of the Asian shops stock it.  Reckon I'll give it a go. Tip of the tsp to start with. 

There's a more fashionable alternative available now : Umami.  Never used it myself, nor have I ever used MSG in a BIR-style dish (although I use it without fail in fried rice), but it may be worth a try ...

** Phil.

[Secret Santa]

Hmm.  This is interesting.  I've avoided MSG as too much keeps me awake at night (L-glutamate is the main excitatory amino acid neurotransmitter in the human brain). Some TAs I know over do it for sure, particularly noticable in the vegetable dishes. But it is an remarkable flavour enhancer.  Most of the Asian shops stock it.  Reckon I'll give it a go. Tip of the tsp to start with. 

There's a more fashionable alternative available now : Umami.  Never used it myself, nor have I ever used MSG in a BIR-style dish (although I use it without fail in fried rice), but it may be worth a try ...

** Phil.

Or just make your own:

Ingredients
Tomato Puree, Garlic, Anchovy Paste (Anchovies, Salt, Sunflower Oil), Black Olive, Balsamic Vinegar, Porcini Mushrooms, Parmesan Cheese, Olive Oil, Vinegar, Sugar, Salt, Citric Acid

It's just a concoction of all the most naturally glutamate-laden products.

[Peripatetic Phil]

Or just make your own:  Ingredients -- Tomato Puree, Garlic, Anchovy Paste (Anchovies, Salt, Sunflower Oil), Black Olive, Balsamic Vinegar, Porcini Mushrooms, Parmesan Cheese, Olive Oil, Vinegar, Sugar, Salt, Citric Acid.  It's just a concoction of all the most naturally glutamate-laden products.

Just as a BIR curry is "just a concoction" of the various spices, vegetables, oils, etc., that all of us have in our arsenal; but we are still striving to re-create the BIR flavour, and if we were to divert our attention away from that  to trying to re-create the Umami flavour, we might never get back to the real task at hand !

** Phil.

[Secret Santa]

Or just make your own:  Ingredients -- Tomato Puree, Garlic, Anchovy Paste (Anchovies, Salt, Sunflower Oil), Black Olive, Balsamic Vinegar, Porcini Mushrooms, Parmesan Cheese, Olive Oil, Vinegar, Sugar, Salt, Citric Acid.  It's just a concoction of all the most naturally glutamate-laden products.

Just as a BIR curry is "just a concoction" of the various spices, vegetables, oils, etc., that all of us have in our arsenal; but we are still striving to re-create the BIR flavour, and if we were to divert our attention away from that  to trying to re-create the Umami flavour, we might never get back to the real task at hand !

** Phil.

I was just offering it as information Phil. Of course, if keeping to the task at hand is foremost then one could argue that suggesting the use of an ingredient that almost certainly has never seen the inside of any BIR establishment, is rather counter to that goal.  :