Topic: Top Tips for Creating that BIR Curry "Taste" and "Smell"

[Secret Santa]

thin base

Yes I'd agree with that too. I use high heat throughout the cooking and I believe that the five or six minutes of 'boiling' that gets the curry to its final consistency really improves the flavour, and for that you definitely need a thin base.

[JerryM]

Secret Santa,

been giving some thought to the 70s curry.

i know the picture of what it looks like. at the time i had no interest in how they were made. we just loved the food, social occasion and the staff who were always good to chat to.

the 2 BIR's i've consistently gone to over the interim have changed a little & yet a lot - the menu has vastly expanded.

these are pure guesses at what i think could be differences:
1) fresh coriander - i can't really remember it being so prominent as it is now
2) whole spice particularly cardamom - the oil was stronger than now
3) less tikka - more plain meat was eaten. the tikka imparts a taste to the dish from the carried over marinade
4) less floating oil - often today the top is swimming. although i'm sure the same amount of oil was used i am sure it was consumed more in the cooking (i never get much oil on the surface)
5) fresh ginger - i think this is a new era taste. i think it must have been powder in the past

some defo no no's for me:
1) chicken stock
2) ghee

it would be interesting to get a collective view. there may well yet be a chance of making the jag.

[JerryM]

on tips for creating taste - one last thought

i still look at this curry malarkey as a jigsaw. each bit in it's own right does not necessarily have a dramtic effect - it's the collective impact that matters.

probably stating the obvious but these also have their part to play once the basics are in place: curry oil, g/g paste, green chilli, fined chopped onion, bunjara, salt, mix powder, tom puree, fresh coriander.

the BIR is so successful for me in that they are able to bring these all together in balance that collectively with the basics deliver that moorish taste.

[Bobby Bhuna]

What do you consider to be "minimal spicing" BB (quantity per main dish serving, say)?  Are you saying you can't produce the BIR "taste" and/or "smell" if you use more (or a wider variety of) spices?

By minimal spicing I meant having a low volume of spice mix present in the curry, rather than the limiting the variety of spices used. I consider minimal spicing to firstly involve a sensible volume of spice mix in the base (I don't know precisely but most popular bases on this site use a similar volume). Thereafter I find using 1 tsp of spice mix in one portion of main is about right. Any more and I find the result is steering away from the BIR flavour. However your addition of a tsp of curry powder in the main works well, which is surprising to me. I know that I've tried using 2 tsps spice mix in a main and it's too much. Madras curry powder seems more subtle than most of the spice mixes I've tried.

As far as creating the BIR taste / smell while using more volume of spice... I don't think so - my attempts have got much closer since I've cut down. As far as variety of spices is concerned, I think you need the basics in place (mentioned below) but after that, a little pinch of this or that is acceptable I would imagine, as long as it's not a really alien or overpowering flavour. I don't think you need anything other than the basic curry spices to create a standard BIR curry e.g. Bhuna.

Are you saying that ALL of these spices are essential to creating the taste and/or smell BB?  And no others are?

I would say that most of these spices are essential to most dishes and by using only these spices you would be able to have a convincing attempt at most BIR curries, especially the classics. However there will be dishes in which not all of these spices are necessary and no doubt dishes that aquire the addition of other spices.

Roughly how much might this be per main dish serving?  Do you think you cannot get the taste and/or the smell without it?

Again, I'm not exactly sure on volumne but for example, I find that one dsrt spoon in your base and half a teaspoon in the main dish does the trick. I know that's quite a lot ;D Salt won't effect the smell obviously but yes, I think a fair whack of salt is paramount to reproducing the BIR taste.

[Secret Santa]

Secret Santa,

been giving some thought to the 70s curry.

It's more the early 80's curry for me but either way I agree with every one of your points!

[Cory Ander]

Thanks for clarifying those things BB.

As for me, for what it's worth, I believe the following are important to creating that BIR "taste" and "smell" (most of which are just reiterating other member's comments):

1.  Essential:

a)  Use lots of oil to fry the spices (whether they be whole, powdered or paste form)

It is evident that oil is the medium by which the flavours of the spices are carried and distributed.  In my opinion, it is essential not to skimp on the oil.  I suggest at least 75ml per individual portion.  Any excess oil can be skimmed off, at the end of cooking, and used to make another curry.  Smell and taste the oil.  It should have elements of both the "taste" and the "smell" (and colour) of a typical BIR curry.

Of course, modern day "awareness" of the "harmful effects" of too much oil (as well as salt, artificial flavours, msg, etc) might lead some people to use less of it.  That's probably OK for still producing decent tasting curries, but it won't be the same, in my opinion.

b)  Use fresh (powdered) spices (i.e. those that have not been poorly stored or sitting around or ages)

Powdered spices lose their flavour quite quickly (i.e. within weeks, certainly months, even though properly stored).  Make sure your spices are fresh in that they still have a powerful aroma.  If they don't, bin them.  The same goes for spice mixes and curry powders and curry pastes.

c)  Use a decent curry base

Although debatable, the essence of a BIR curry, in my opinion, is in the curry base.  Without a decent curry base you will always be struggling to create that BIR taste and smell.  Having said that, a decent curry can, of course, be produced without using a curry base.  It's effectively cooked, in situ, with the main curry.  However, this is more an "authentic Indian" cooking style, rather than a BIR cooking style, and will no doubt lead to a different (that is not to say it's inferior) taste and smell.  To my mind, this (i.e. the curry base) is where "a gap" (i.e. an "unknown") exists between home cooking (and curry bases available on this forum) and BIR cooking.

d)  Use a decent sized pan, matched to your heat source, and don't overfill the pan

I believe it is important to match your pan (of whatever material or shape) to your heat source.  It is important to impart enough heat to ensure that the ingredients fry rather than braise.  Overloading your pan will result in the latter and the flavours of the spices (and other ingredients) will not fully develop.  Provided this is done, I see no reason why multiple portions cannot be successfully produced (though BIRs generally produce single portions at a time)

e)  Use plenty of salt and/or MSG

Again, use plenty of salt (and/or MSG) in both the base and the main dish.  I'd suggest at least 0.5 tsp of salt in the main dish and maybe 0.25 tsp MSG.  MSG may be a throw back to earlier BIR curries of course (before effects of these things on "health" became such an issue!)

The reason I personally place so much emphasis on the above factors is that, as SS pointed out, BIRs produce various rudimentary dishes (such as mushroom bhaji, aloo bhaji, etc) which are little more than the above combination, which, nevertheless, have the taste and the smell.  What else can it be?  Really?

2.  Important:

a)  Use plenty of spice

This seems to be a bit at odds with other members' opinions (i.e. "less is more").  However, spices are obviously important to creating the taste and smell of a curry.  If you use plenty of oil, and recover the oil for future use (whether from the base or from the main curry), you will need to add extra spices to compensate for the flavour "lost" in that removed oil.  To my mind, you can quite easily add several tsp of spices to an individual portion of curry (provided it doesn't become "gritty").

Ground coriander and cumin are the most important BIR spices, primarily for flavour, and tumeric (and paprika) primarily for colour and chilli primarily for colour and piquancy.

b)  Use spiced oil

There is no doubt, in my mind, that using spiced oil (whether recovered from the curry base, or from the main dish, or specifically created, can significantly enhance the smell and taste of any curry.

c)  Use plenty of garlic

There is no doubt, in my mind, that garlic is an essential element of the taste and smell of a typical BIR curry.  My recollection (from those BIRs curries of yesteryear) is that garlic seeps from the pores of the skin for days afterwards!  A word of caution though.  I find that using lots of garlic with lots of lemon juice can result in a very sickly tasting curry.  So I'd say rather skimp on the lemon juice.

Okay, I've droned on too long so I'll stop there!

[Secret Santa]

Again, I'm not exactly sure on volumne but for example, I find that one dsrt spoon in your base and half a teaspoon in the main dish does the trick. I know that's quite a lot ;D Salt won't effect the smell obviously but yes, I think a fair whack of salt is paramount to reproducing the BIR taste.

The strange thing I find with salt is this. If I add salt to a curry that I'm making so that, to me, it tastes right, I find that if I then taste that same curry when it is cold the next day it is far too salty.

I don't know why this is but it's not something I find with BIR bought curries. All very strange!

[Secret Santa]

So I'd say rather skimp- on the lemon juice.

Let there be light!

[Cory Ander]

Let there be light!

Ahhh, but it's contextural with regard to using lots of garlic SS 

[Cory Ander]

By the way, SS,

I notice that the East Takeaway (like many others, nowadays, responding to "market pressures") pride themselves on having no MSG, low salt, low fat, low oil, no artificial flavours curries......

....hmmm, that's probably where the 80s taste and smell has gone to then!   :