Topic: How do I stop powder coming through in the curry

[JerryM]

Secret Santa,

i may have brought some of this on myself. just recently i started using plain tom puree (ie not watered) and adding base a little at a time. from not being able to get the smokey taste i could not loose it. i found i could reduce the oil (from 6 tbs madras/4 tbsp others to 3 tbsp for all). i can see now that the oil was boarderline and adding the extra powder just ott'd it. i don't have an issue using lots of oil as it goes up in smoke very easily on the stove. i'll do as u suggest - many thanks.

Mikka,

i think i'm on similar lines. "JUST" tomato paste is what's intriguing me. i make 976bar's kashmiri regular. my wife and myself have no direct BIR comparison on this dish - we both feel it's BIR. the same goes for bitchinsahsa's butter chicken. i've never tried a BIR version but i make it for a friend who has BIR comparison and reckons it's as good as. other dishes i make are good enough.

on some dishes there is still a piece of the jigsaw missing. madras is one good example for sure. i regularly do a side by side with the same from my local TA. despite trying all sorts of ideas there is still something missing in terms of ingredient. it's not what i'd call an Indian spice ie cumin, coriander etc. it's not tomato ie ie passata, tin toms, lemon juice, fresh green chilli etc.

i now think it must be something to do with the tomato paste. it's not pataks either. the paprika surprisingly seemed a step in the right direction. i need to get rid of the sand to get a better view.

[Mikka1]

Ok here's a thing. Ever since I came here I wondered what the heck is that fruity smell? It's just about in everything here. I haven't asked about it because I feel its what I am looking for in particular. It's not a lemon sherbet or anything, it's just there.

Today I pulled out a small thing of onion Tiny condiment thing from the fridge. Small pieces of onion in a red sauce, not much but its there. The thing is that its very sweet. I saw a recipe for this just now but its not that. It tastes like berries although It could be a simple sauce of course.

For me anyway.
1. There is a spice missing. something I have too because I know it but cannot nail it.
2. There is something fruity in my meals. (Sometimes if not then toned down).
3. The oil is the corker. I think that's how it gets around of course (taste).

Guess we all know #3. But I'm sure its reused oil and I'm certain we can make it at home too without reusing it from other dishes.

As a test I added 1 TBS Hot sauce (Forget the brand) into some plain tomato sauce, (tinned). The effect was immediate.

I'm not suggesting everyone go hunt the fridge for Red grape juice or pour Hot sauce over their meals but I am certain that something about both processes do actually occur in some form in many kitchens but perhaps not all.

I've often said I could drink some curry sauces. I'm still frustrated as heck but I'm glad someone is talking about this age old topic again because for my money and although some sites charge access fees for what they say are real recipes from Chefs. None of them come even close to the real thing, none of them.

I know, I'm fussy and try mine alongside those from a restaurant. I think it would be fair to say that some meals. The ones I really like are about 75/80% there, but no more.

 

Mikka,

i think i'm on similar lines. "JUST" tomato paste is what's intriguing me. i make 976bar's kashmiri regular. my wife and myself have no direct BIR comparison on this dish - we both feel it's BIR. the same goes for bitchinsahsa's butter chicken. i've never tried a BIR version but i make it for a friend who has BIR comparison and reckons it's as good as. other dishes i make are good enough.

on some dishes there is still a piece of the jigsaw missing. madras is one good example for sure. i regularly do a side by side with the same from my local TA. despite trying all sorts of ideas there is still something missing in terms of ingredient. it's not what i'd call an Indian spice ie cumin, coriander etc. it's not tomato ie ie passata, tin toms, lemon juice, fresh green chilli etc.

i now think it must be something to do with the tomato paste. it's not pataks either. the paprika surprisingly seemed a step in the right direction. i need to get rid of the sand to get a better view.

[Cory Ander]

Ok here's a thing. Ever since I came here I wondered what the heck is that fruity smell? It's just about in everything here.

Can I ask where "here" is please Mikka?  Would I be correct in thinking that you are (originally) from North America/Canada?

[JerryM]

Mikka,

berries & fruity - i've not come at it by smell. the ashoka pathia mix has mango in it - it's very strong - just what u need for pathia but not the subtle taste i'm in need of (for some dishes typ madras).

these are my current thoughts - i've not tried it out yet though. got stuck in the sand.

i think there must be an "extra" bottle or jug of this "Just" tom paste that is used for some dishes. at the mo i'm thinking tom puree, water, paprika, mango chutney, oil.

the trouble is at my local TA i've only seen what really looks like double concentrate tom puree straight out of a tin. i firmly believe this is the case and is used for most dishes. this "Just" tom past is not tandoori marinade either.

probably just a bonkers thought but i just can't think of anything else to close the gap on the real BIR madras curry sauce. there's just nothing in the dish yet the taste is 2nd to none.

[Mikka1]

Nah I'm from Britain CA.

Can I ask where "here" is please Mikka?  Would I be correct in thinking that you are (originally) from North America/Canada?

[Mikka1]

Perhaps I'm just confused Jerry? That's exactly what I get from most food in my region though. Some places are different, but most have this wonderful overlying smell and I can only keep thinking fruity for some reason?

One thing of note is that when I ask for Mutton from the butcher is that they are confused and say Lamb. When I ask for goat they say you must mean Lamb. There is a great Halal butcher some miles away. I never see the lighter meat (bloodless) that comes in Rogan Josh. I swear that is part of it. This has a peculiar taste but obviously really good!  ;D

The meat I get which is cheap of course is a little darker.

Jerry I'll post a pic up later of my Tomato paste. I don't truly think you would know without smelling it that it is really caramelized onions and spices.

Keep well Dude

Mikka,

berries & fruity - i've not come at it by smell. the ashoka pathia mix has mango in it - it's very strong - just what u need for pathia but not the subtle taste i'm in need of (for some dishes typ madras).

these are my current thoughts - i've not tried it out yet though. got stuck in the sand.

i think there must be an "extra" bottle or jug of this "Just" tom paste that is used for some dishes. at the mo i'm thinking tom puree, water, paprika, mango chutney, oil.

the trouble is at my local TA i've only seen what really looks like double concentrate tom puree straight out of a tin. i firmly believe this is the case and is used for most dishes. this "Just" tom past is not tandoori marinade either.

probably just a bonkers thought but i just can't think of anything else to close the gap on the real BIR madras curry sauce. there's just nothing in the dish yet the taste is 2nd to none.

[JerryM]

Mikka,

could the mango fit what u're searching for in terms of smell. that's what i think is in the "Just" tomato paste/sauce that i'm searching for.

maybe u're talking of what i call onion paste when u refer to tomato paste. i after something completely different as i already use onion paste (Left to right is the g/g paste, chilli paste, onion paste - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.msg30354#msg30354

i regular do a side by side with the madras curry sauce from my local TA. for me it's crucial as i see it as the gateway to many other related dishes.

the trouble is the taste comes across as very simple yet fantastic. i'd add that the sauce from the TA is pretty much the same across the country when the chef makes what i call the "red" colour version (there is a brown version - SnS's madras is very close to the brown version).

i can only describe the taste as garlic, tomato, coriander, chilli. it has minimal spice taste - i assume only that from the base ie no additional spice is added. CK's madras is the closest to it but yet still not there. i've tried many variations but they take the taste away from BIR as opposed to towards.

i can now only think that a "tomato" sauce must be used to convert the base into the finished dish.

i intend to experiment along these lines when i next have base - hopefully now being able to sort the sand taste that i got last time.

[Mikka1]

To be completely honest Jerry I'm scouring Youtube at the moment. There are some gems up there these days. I did a random search on just cooking meat really and found a load of Indian chefs quite by chance.

I'll post up links when I've scrutinized them a little. Also the missing taste (for me) might be my meat? I was told the other taste may in fact be goat meat. Go figure....

[emin-j]

Mikka and JerryM , I think your both having a mid life Curry Crisis 
After my time in the kitchen of my favourite T/A which is 12 miles away  I watched my Madras being made right in front of my eyes  I believe your over complicating your Curry cooking by adding things like Onion Pastes and Spicy blends of this and that and God knows what your gonna come up with next !
This T/A uses a basic Base Sauce and minimally Spice their Madras plus ' thinned ' Tomato Puree and the Curry is deeelicious 
As already said I think the amount of oil is important to give a smooth sauce but also I believe much of the Spice flavour is suspended in the oil my best Curries have been swimming in oil  but you could allways spoon off really excess oil into a container to be reused in your next Curry or Base Sauce even. I believe we need to think BIR to find ' the taste ' we are searching for and I reckon their priorities would be .
1. Quick to produce
2. Cheap to produce
3. Max flavour per ?
JerryM , you are well practiced at Curry making and no doubt you know how to make a cracking Madras with just the usual ingredients found in most of the Madras recipes on here ! My Madras Curries are easily as good and more often better than any of my local T/A's and close enough to my favourite T/A's taste to believe I just need to ' fine tune '
my technique rather than look for a ' Magic Spice ' that I might be missing 
p.s. saying that, I bought some Tandori Masala Spice on the weekend for the first time and that tastes and smells good enough to eat out of the jar !! mmm I wonder ??  ;D

[JerryM]

emin-j,

i know it must sound a tad mad but just this one little bit of my cooking is niggling me.

i don't see how "Just" tom puree can get to the sauce taste - i've tried many ideas as i've said.

i feel as if i must be "barking" on this but i just don't see how i can get the taste other than something like a "Just" tom paste made along these lines : tom puree, water, paprika, mango chutney, oil.

i will try it and report. i still hope members might just get a bit of inspiration on what they believe it could be as i can't be the only one to feel there is a slight gap on madras related dishes. the only other thought is a bought proprietary tomato/chilli sauce - the one's u see in the asian stores. i have tried this in the past (before joining) and it did work to a certain extent. given what i now know from the site it may just do it but it's currently ranked 2nd begind the "Just" sauce idea.

ps i do use the tandoori masala in some dishes - only a tad amount typ 1/4 tsp.