Topic: BIR Myth's

[Cory Ander]

No, I haven't but I can see no reason for it not to work.
I didn't use a high heat

Are you sure you're not confusing "high heat" with the ferocity of the flames haldi?  I'm sure that your cooker, even with "lazy flames", on medium heat, kicks out a hell of a lot more heat than a domestic cooker.  I would be far more convinced if you told me that you have also replicated the result using a bog standard domestic cooker

I think if the base is correct, then nearly all the hard work is done.
I believe the base has a "hidden" magic
That magic happens when it is heated

I agree with that assessment Haldi

[Panpot]

Not sure I totally agree with the nostril and taste bud thing but will bow to all yourr communal experience. I hope to get into the kitchens of a popular Glasgow BIR soon and will check out among ather things what happens to my taste buds and sense of smell, flames in pans and other things particularly pastes which I do see going into meals at my local take away with an open kitchen.

I will start the post on the "Secret Ingredient" the infamous onion paste.

[Secret Santa]

Flaming aside, isn't that in itself telling you something?  The rate of cooking is FAST (due to the high heat output)...for better or for worse!

But surely your whole argument (as I recall) is that the flaming is an absolute necessity to get at least closer to the BIR flavour? You now seem to be saying that it's the high heat that's the key? I'm confused!
All I was saying was that the high heat used is purely to get the food to the table as fast as possible and not to get the pan to flame. If you are saying that, as an incidental happenstance, that it also gets you that bit closer to the BIR flavour, then we are in agreement.

The fact that the pan in the BIR occasionally flames is purely incidental

Have you actually tried this to determine it's effect SS?  I think people (I'm not having a go at you here SS) need to try it before commenting upon or dismissing it's effect. 

Umm, yes I have tried it and it scared the bloody life out of me the first time it happened (I had a nice singe on the kitchen floor where I put the pan in a panic), which answers your second question I think. Oh and I didn't find that it added anything to the curry flavour, certainly nothing that would entice me to repeat the operation.

The simple fact is CA that there are enough eye witness accounts, either first hand, or maybe from TV etc. that suggest that the majority of BIRs do not flame their curries unless by accident, or to show off to the camera!

For me the flaming pan is a myth and I'd be interested to hear your counter argument.

[Cory Ander]

But surely your whole argument (as I recall) is that the flaming is an absolute necessity to get at least closer to the BIR flavour? You now seem to be saying that it's the high heat that's the key? I'm confused!

Yes, either you are confused, or I am SS 

As I understand it, the assertion in this thread is that the need for "big flames" or "high output flames" is a "TRUE myth (high output burners not required)".  I take it that people are referring to the high heat output of the cooker and not to the flaming of the dishes.  Maybe I'm wrong?  But I don't really think so...I'm just being nice 

My counter assertion is that the heat output of the cooker remains a significant difference between BIR and domestic cookers and should not be discounted.  It is, in my opinion, a likely contributing factor in producing the BIR taste and smell.

[JerryM]

it's our biggest difficulty "words".

i think we're in pretty much agreement (if not we need to clarify exactly)

we are (or the thread is intended) to discuss burners not flames due to oil.

it's quite clear BIR's use hot real flames to cook on. it's equally clear electric hobs are not upto to the job - i now have a 1.5kw elec hob and a 2.5kw LPG gas stove. i always use the stove even though there is more hassle setting it up. this being down to being sure the stove gets an identical curry closer to BIR than done on the hob.

i am sure the BIR's have the high output to cook the dishes quickly. the evaporation stage for me is crucial in getting towards BIR result and this evap needs high heat to do the job in a reasonable amount of time (for me 5 mins). the 2.5kw does the job on full whack in this time.

what i can't discern is the BIR hint of smokey taste in cooking on the 2.5kw stove. one thing at the bacl of my mind is that i am about to remove the "smoked paprika" sticking plaster from my LB spice mix. on the last cooked curry it did not work for the 1st time "too smokey". i don't know if this was down to a rogue batch of Mix powder, the addition of salt or the better experience at getting the most out of the stove.

the other thing on my mind is the "pan". does the ali pan perform better in avoiding burning of the spices and thereby allowing the high heat to be applied safely (at mo i end up burning - don't think i ever burnt on the hob but the stove is consistent).

in short i think we are agreed that somewhere between 2 and 8 kw lies an optimum for cooking ie evap and spice frying. the only uncertainty being the smokey hint and where that lies along the Kw range. i almost add "if at all" but i don't see where else it could be created.

[Cory Ander]

it's our biggest difficulty "words".

I beg to differ Jerry.  Our biggest difficulty is in reproducing decent BIR curries!  Let's not get lost on the words hey! 

[JerryM]

CA,

i don't want to get lost in words either (in fact the complete opposite).

what i find difficult is that we can't show or taste one another's efforts.

we have to rely on words - this is our weakest link and needs tolerance as a result. just look at the amount of statute on the law books - all down to someone fixing in word and others interpreting differently.

getting our meaning across to one another via words is not easy. that's all i mean by "words are our biggest challenge".

take taste for example - you manage to set your thoughts out eloquently. is it possible to capture some form of guide or does it already exist

i know this appears at 1st sight not directly about myth's. the objective of the myth's post was to attempt to answer BE's observation on "the wood for the trees". this correctly or incorrectly i've interpreted as difficulty with the written word.

the words were, "It appears from the posts that some people can't see the 'wood for the trees'. It seems to me that there is an issue here" http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3074.msg27201#msg27201.

i don't know what other slant i could put on it but very keen to hear all thoughts as it's bugging me. if there is an issue then we collectively need to sort it.

[haldi]

It is, in my opinion, a likely contributing factor in producing the BIR taste and smell.

The smell comes from little bubbles of curry (coming from the pan) igniting in the big flames going up the side of the pan.
It smells absolutely amazing

[Cory Ander]

So you haven't actually made an exact replica on a domestic cooker then Haldi?

No, I haven't but I can see no reason for it not to work.

Hi Haldi,

Would there be any chance that you could repeat this "experiment" on your domestic hob (i.e. your domestic hob, versus your commercial hob, versus the restaurant curry) to be sure?

[JerryM]

Haldi,

i too feel there is great importance in this area of bubbles, flames and pan.

my stove does not ignite the bubbles or "spittings". the spittings end up all over my kitchen.

i'd really appreciate knowing if the ignition alone is crucial. i've already seen improvement in taste since using the stove with the flames lapping up around the pan sides and using my chef's spoon.

the question is aimed at: do i need a bigger diameter burner (or smaller pan) to increase the lapping or what CA is suggesting a bigger jet to cause the ignition or change my pan to Ali or a combination of the later 2.