Topic: How hot do i have to get my spices?

[Rai]

You can't argue with personal taste, after all's said and done. lol

Domi Domi Domi, this isnt about "personal taste", it's about food science!  I assume that there is a minimum temperature at which the essential oils will be released from the spices.  It may be that it happens at all temperatures and that is why spices stored at room temperature eventually lose their flavour over time (in months)

But I feel it is important to know if the powdered spices need to get above 100C to release there oils relatively quickly (in minutes).  If so, they need to be added (dry) to the hot oil and not after other water containing ingredients have been added (eg onions) or as a paste in water (maybe as a paste in oil instead?)

[Domi]

Yes, I did answer the testicle technical points too....but at the end of the day people will decide for themselves whether or not to roast ground spices, use water or oil bases, air-dried, sundried or heat-dried spices, which is where the personal preference reference (try saying that with a gobfull of peanuts!) came into it.

BTW I don't intentionally have a tone, I just like using the name Rai, Rai.

[Domi]

You can't argue with personal taste, after all's said and done. lol

But I feel it is important to know if the powdered spices need to get above 100C to release there oils relatively quickly (in minutes).  If so, they need to be added (dry) to the hot oil and not after other water containing ingredients have been added (eg onions) or as a paste in water (maybe as a paste in oil instead?)

Different ways of cooking can present different tastes in the food, cook the spices to suit your tastes, some prefer to add them using water (which cooks off quickly enough over a med-high heat anyway), some prefer oil....it's horses for courses again I'm afraid.

[Rai]

Hmmmm, it seems we are not having a very intelligent debate here domi  

Are you blonde domi?  I am  

but at the end of the day people will decide for themselves whether or not to roast ground spices, use water or oil bases, air-dried, sundried or heat-dried spices, which is where the personal preference reference

But domi, this thread is supposed to be about people developing sufficient basic knowledge to make an informed decision and thereby improve their bir curry cooking experience  :

Would you have people chuck raw whole spices and in at the end prior to serving because thats their "personal preference" too domi?  :

it's horses for courses again I'm afraid

No its not domi, its about cooking bir curries and replicating them in the home kitchen  :

[SnS]

How hot do the spices have to get to extract the most flavour from them please?

Spices as in whole or ground?

Some spices have already gone through the high temperature process prior to grinding to a powder, and most essential oils are already released.

If its over 100C, does this mean that I have to add the dry spices to the hot oil (at 200C plus) before i add anything else containing water?  

Not all whole spices are required to be added to hot oil in order to extract their full flavour. Some can be dry roasted prior to grinding. If oil is used to fry whole spices, a good indication to ideal temperature is when a green cardomom sizzles, puffs up and browns within a few seconds. Clearly, some whole spices are more likely to burn than others, so timing is important.

Because as soon as I add water (like in onions or pastes) the temperature will struggle to get above 100C (and will probably be about 85C on a domestic hob) wont it?  

If a paste (spice and water) is added to very hot oil, the water will almost immediatley change to steam (100C). Once all the water has evaporated, the temperature of the spice paste will rise very quickly.

SnS  ;D

[Rai]

Spices as in whole or ground?

Both I suppose, but since were talking bir, mainly ground

Some spices have already gone through the high temperature process prior to grinding to a powder, and most essential oils are already released

What do you mean?  Why fry them at all then?

a good indication to ideal temperature is when a green cardomom sizzles, puffs up and browns within a few seconds

That's just an indication that the green cardamon has become puffed up and brown sns, no more an no less.  Anyway, who fries green cardamoms in a bir curry? 

If a paste (spice and water) is added to very hot oil, the water will almost immediatley change to steam (100C). Once all the water has evaporated, the temperature of the spice paste will rise very quickly

Not on a domestic hob it wont, ive measured it and it actually doesnt.  Hence my questions

[Domi]

Hmmmm, it seems we are not having a very intelligent debate here domi  

Are you blonde domi?  I am  

but at the end of the day people will decide for themselves whether or not to roast ground spices, use water or oil bases, air-dried, sundried or heat-dried spices, which is where the personal preference reference

But domi, this thread is supposed to be about people developing sufficient basic knowledge to make an informed decision and thereby improve their bir curry cooking experience  :

Would you have people chuck raw whole spices and in at the end prior to serving because thats their "personal preference" too domi?  :

it's horses for courses again I'm afraid

No its not domi, its about cooking bir curries and replicating them in the home kitchen  :

PMSL ;D Unfortunately for you I'm a fiery red head (at least that's what it said on the bottle :-X). Luckily for you I also have a sense of humour.


Sorry, Rai but personal taste is everything I'm afraid, otherwise we would all eat at the same restaurant wouldn't we? (I'm convinced you're blond but must admit I'm intrigued to know if "collars and cuffs" match since you seem to have at least some intelligence. )

If only it were that simple that each of us would like the same tastes, there'd need only be one base recipe, for starters! -although that might not be a bad thing, judging by available room in my freezer!- Some people may prefer a more raw flavour from their spices, others prefer a more well-rounded, roasted taste and never the twain shall meet...do you see my point? The only way to get the best from your spices is to suit your own palate....pigs and gormands seldom agree, but each is entitled to their opinion, neither side being right or wrong, whatever the majority.

If someone's idea of a fantastic curry involved a half-kilo of chilli powder, who am I to tell them they're wrong? :-[

The only way to get knowledge is to try different ways and settle for what suits you best. It still comes down to personal preference, wouldn't you agree, Rai?

[SnS]

Some spices have already gone through the high temperature process prior to grinding to a powder, and most essential oils are already released

What do you mean?  Why fry them at all then?

Just enough to remove the raw flavour without burning (60 seconds or less?)

a good indication to ideal temperature is when a green cardomom sizzles, puffs up and browns within a few seconds

That's just an indication that the green cardamon has become puffed up and brown sns, no more an no less.  Anyway, who fries green cardamoms in a bir curry? 

It saves using an infra red temperature probe, which many of us don't have. The oil should be at about 180C.

If a paste (spice and water) is added to very hot oil, the water will almost immediatley change to steam (100C). Once all the water has evaporated, the temperature of the spice paste will rise very quickly

Not on a domestic hob it wont, ive measured it and it actually doesnt.  Hence my questions

Too much water in the spice paste or the oil/pan wasn't hot enough before adding the spice paste, perhaps?

A domestic hob (medium gas burner ring) is about 1.8kW and should be ample to heat and maintain oil at 180C when a little spice paste is added. A large gas ring is about 3kW.

SnS  ;D

[Rai]

Some people may prefer a more raw flavour from their spices, others prefer a more well-rounded, roasted taste and never the twain shall meet...do you see my point? The only way to get the best from your spices is to suit your own palate....pigs and gormands seldom agree, but each is entitled to their opinion, neither side being right or wrong, whatever the majority

Noooooooo domi!  This question is about the minimum temperatures required to release the flavours of spices!  Its not about bl**dy "personal preference"  

[Rai]

Just enough to remove the raw flavour without burning (60 seconds or less?)

Is that an answer to that question?

It saves using an infra red temperature probe, which many of us don't have

So you are just using them to determine the temperature of the oil are you? then ditching them?

The oil should be at about 180C

Why should it be at 180C?  Whats the reason?  Why use oils with a smoke point well up into about 240C+ then?

Too much water in the spice paste or the oil/pan wasn't hot enough before adding the spice paste, perhaps?

The presence of water and a too feeble hob perhaps more like?  That's precisely my point

A domestic hob (medium gas burner ring) is about 1.8kW and should be ample to heat and maintain oil at 180C when a little spice paste is added. A large gas ring is about 3kW

Then clearly you have not measured it.  Most people add onions, garlic, ginger and then the powdered spices/spice paste and tomato puree.  By which time the pan will be about 85C (ive measured it).  Question is, is this hot enough?

Seems to me that some people think that anything will do because its "personal preferance" but, from what I can tell, no one here can actually fully replicate the taste and smell of a bir curry.  Is it any wonder i ask myself?  :