Topic: The evolution of the base sauce on cr0 and its implications.

[Secret Santa]

It struck me while reading the arguments about what constitutes a good base sauce that things might just be getting out of hand. When this foum started the bases were generally simpler and over time carrots, then peppers generally got added. Then Darth used celery as well in one of his bases and people then started to use that. Now it's potatoes as well.

You know what this tells me? It tells me that you all like the taste of vegetable soup, because that's where this is heading, and the recent suggestion that we use a can of soup in place of the base sounds more and more plausible and at the same time ridiculous!

Bear in mind when you say this base is better than that base, that 99% of us here have never tasted even one authentic base sauce from a BIR, so how the hell do you know what constitutes a good base?

Haven't you ever made a recipe and thought it was great and then had the same dish in it's native country and thought - jeez I was well off the mark. Something to ponder perhaps?

[Domi]

Personally I think a base should be made by using ingredients which are essential components of most (or all) curries. A base sauce to me is a shortcut used for ensuring that time spent making a final dish is cut down dramatically, meaning that curries can be turned out at the greatest speed of knots.

I have often thought that if you want to make a good base, you should start at the final, finished curry and work backwards.....the spices which make a dish what it is being added after the base sauce which is used as a vehicle to carry the specific spices throughout the whole dish.

I think a better place to start when considering a base to make is exactly which ingredients need to be in a base to cover all curries, chilli, tomato etc, in my opinion would be better added to your final dish rather than at the base stage as not all curries (or tastes for that matter) call for the same amount of either and the addition of both can make or ruin a curry, better to add too little than too much in many cases as it is easier to rectify, whereas a base which is already too hot or too tomatoey cannot be saved as there's no way to take out an ingredient once it's used....In essence, I'd rather spoil one curry than a whole batch of base... :-X

Coriander, cumin and turmeric (the holy trinity?) seem to be present in all curries, and we see from most base sauces that these are used as a basis for any spices used in the base gravy just as garlic, basil and tomato are used in most Italian dishes no doubt if Italian dishes used a base sauce, they'd undoubtedly have those three ingredients as a starting point. Do you get what I mean? or am I talking out me backside again?  ;D

[Secret Santa]

Personally I think a base should be made by using ingredients which are essential components of most (or all) curries. A base sauce to me is a shortcut...

That pretty much defines a BIR base. Its sole purpose is to reduce the time needed to make a curry. I think the rest of your post is perfectly sensible as well. The trend toward having carrot, peppers, celery, potatoes and cabbage for god's sake, that's where I think the wrong turn in the road has been taken.

[Domi]

The trend toward having carrot, peppers, celery, potatoes and cabbage for god's sake, that's where I think the wrong turn in the road has been taken.

Those veg may be being used as it has frequently been said that the base is based on a traditional English stew...? whilst that may have been said in the early days, I doubt it's the same case nowadays given that more varied produce is now available. Again, it comes down to personal taste...to veg or not to veg, that is the question

[Secret Santa]

The trend toward having carrot, peppers, celery, potatoes and cabbage for god's sake, that's where I think the wrong turn in the road has been taken.

Those veg may be being used as it has frequently been said that the base is based on a traditional English stew...?

No, definitely not. The curry base is derived from a traditional Pakistani recipe (the name of which escapes me just now), which is used in just the same way that BIRs and you and me use the base sauce. That is, to be able to quickly knock up a meal.

I'll try and dig it out later but you'll see (if i can find it) that it does not contain potato, pepper, carrot etc. In fact I think it would be closer to the KD style of base sauce.

[JerryM]

Secret Santa,

inspirational post. this site keeps getting better and better

where I think the wrong turn in the road has been taken.

i think the turning was right but we've travelled along a bit to far and forgotten to take on the right provisions.

i think once a certain threshold of base is achieved then "adding? more gives diminishing returns. Soup is definitely not good - a form of stock yes.

For me more concentration needs to go into base spices, recipe spices and cooking technique

[Secret Santa]

Again, it comes down to personal taste...to veg or not to veg, that is the question

I think you're half right there Domi, but for me the question is what do the majority of BIRs really, really, put in their base sauces and what does a genuine BIR base sauce really, really, taste like. The answer is of course that I really, really, don't know.

[Domi]

I think Indian food has changed dramatically....in the early 80's they were trying to get the best mix between Indian food and English tastes, whereas now Indian restaurants are erring either to a more authentic taste or a new type of fusion food, incorporating more internationally recognised ingredients and slowly the old favourites (like I think SS and others like, myself included) are being lost along the wayside.

Like you say, JerryM, things needed to change, but the change is now a constant thing....and it won't be stopping anytime soon.

[Domi]

I don't know if you'll have seen this before, SS, but this about sums it up

Here's the original link:
http://www.scribble.clara.net/curry_house.htm

Save the curry house

Who wants curried sun-dried tomatoes? Long live ye oldie British curry house

This first appeared in Tandoori Magazine, September 1998.

IT USED to be simple. If you fancied an Indian, you knew what you were letting yourself in for: flock wallpaper, lashings of Chicken Tikka Masala (CTM), sitars in the background. It was a restaurant style and cuisine made great in Britain?s high streets. And unknown in India. Excellent in its own way.

In these days of Cool Britannia, it?s all become a mite more complicated. The British curry house has evolved into a range of concepts.

D?ya fancy, scribble the restaurant critics, a slice of something buzzin? an? happenin? an? spicy? Or would you rather an oh-so-minimalist, oh-so-exclusive, oh-so-expensive treat fit for a maharajah? Perhaps a taste of the last days of the French Raj? Or how about some Indo-Thai? Some Bison Vindaloo? Kangaroo Tikka? Haggis Pakora?

You have to go back to the Indian restaurant sector's early days to understand this, the curry house rush to go upmarket, the desire to brush off the fits-one-gob, fits-all image.

As recently as the 1960s, Indian restaurants were a rare sight, outnumbered by greasy spoons and fish ?n? chip shops. In 1960, there were only about 500 Indian restaurants in Britain, mainly in London, with at most a couple in each of the larger cities. The food stayed exotic, not the ?norm?, not what mam cooked for tea.

By 1970, as immigration from the Indian subcontinent reached a peak, the number of Indian restaurants had increased to 1,200. With their sharp business skills going waste, new arrivals, particularly those from Bangladesh, picked up pots and pans and karahis and set to work. By 1980, the number had gone up to 3,000.

The all-singing, all-dancing curry house experience that emerged wasn?t exactly planned. The average Indian restaurant found itself hosting a gut-level playground for th?lads each weekend. Lager - loads an? loadsa lager - and ordering too much and macho-masochism assumed a far greater importance than any food.

The staff were completely bewildered. It wasn't what they wanted. Really, they didn't want you to be a right vindaloonatic, a bit of a masala maniac.

The concept took off because curry house grub was so much better than anything else around at the time. It beat traditional meat and two veg to a pulp. It was cheap. It gave a first lesson in eating out to today?s fastidious foodies. It was additive - chillies gave an adrenaline rush.

But early chefs knew that what they produced bore little resemblance to real Indian food. Restaurateurs generally worked to tight budgets. As a result, the food was often formulaic. The ?one-pot-masala?, a large vat of basic onion gravy, supplied the base for a variety of dishes. By switching ingredients and varying the amount of chilli powder, chefs were able to turn out Dhansak, Rogan Josh and Korma at low cost and high speed.

The recession of the early 1990s proved a hiccup. As it turned out, a welcome one. Indian curry houses run by cowboys ran into receivership.

Those restaurateurs with business nous and, perhaps most importantly, marketing skills, prospered. They polished their offer, introducing recipes from India and a wider range of ingredients and cooking techniques. Gaining increased revenue and media attention, they acted as role models for others in the sector.

The sector became quite proud, quite rightly, about its achievements. It saw the chance to do what it had always wanted - ditch the balti boozers and go upmarket.

Curry house punters - some of them - had changed too. Discerning customers who reckoned they knew a thing or two about curries demanded something new, something different.

According to a recent Mintel survey, today?s Indian restaurant customer is likely to be a youngish ABC1 professional. A recent Marketpower survey finds that out of the 60 per cent of British adults who visit ethnic restaurants, 66 per cent will travel up to 10 miles for a good Indian restaurant. And 32 per cent will go as far as 20 miles.

Demand stimulates supply. Today, there are over 8,000 Indian restaurants in Britain. They serve over 2.5 million customers a year and generate an annual turnover of about ?2 billion. England?s footballing anthem during France 98 was Vindaloo. Tourist boards push their local curry zones. The Indian restaurant sector is a great British success.

With their increased skills and confidence, Indian restaurateurs have interpreted this as a sign to turn posh. Every other mid-market Indian restaurant serves up sun-dried tomatoes with its CTM. Which it probably calls Tikka Poulet Rouge. And which it?s now about to replace with "something more authentic", something first dreamt up by the chef?s forebears for a hungry maharaja. Or, more cynically, brainstormed by a marketing department hungry for new markets.

What hasn?t changed is that the traditional curry house serving good food is still doing extraordinarily well. Its cheap ?n? cheerful offer continues to outsell any other kind of ethnic food. As well as fish ?n? chips.

The big breweries know this. Which is why they?re currently scrambling to cross the British curry house with that other British institution, the pub. Regent Inn?s recently opened its first Pukkabar in Sydenham, London.

With batch-cooked curries and interior design by the team responsible for Marco Pierre White?s Mirabelle, the aim is to provide a stylish Indian drinking - Cobra Beer is on tap - as well as eating experience. If the concept works, it plans to rollout several more Pukkabars by the end of the century. Average cost per head there is between ?10 and ?20.

Punch Tavern?s has plans to open 60 Pele?s Balti Pubs over the next three years. Again, the decor is stylish; the prices are cheap; the emphasis is on accessibility.

An integral part of British culture, the curry house won?t disappear. If anything, as the Indian restaurant sector fractures into different restaurant styles aimed at different micro-markets - vegetarian, regional, authentic, fusion, the basic curry house concept, with a nineties twist, will regain its importance.

Up-market Indian restaurants will continue to do well. But wrapped up in good business practice and rolled out as a chain of standardised outlets, the McIndian will do even better.

[Davy]

Hi guys,
Imo it has all really been summed up by the previous post. I personaly think that there is nothing better than the surprise for want of a better word than eating out and sampling a new taste. The competition among carryouts and restaurants is bound to be fierce and the owners must be continually striving to come out on top with the best offering that people will pay for. As chefs/cooks call us what you like we all like to be heroes and the buzz comes from putting a dish infront of your guests or family and seeing the utter surprise and enjoyment as they taste your food. One of the ultimate complements being " You buy this in then???"  Me can cookum you think to yourself!!;D
Indian Chefs as any Chef I am sure are no different, as one thing we all have in common is we love food and we love to cook. Another consideration as pointed out is cost. Personally I feel if a chef can make a larger quantity of sauce using cabbage or carrot or whatever that is acceptable to the paying public and cheaper to the restaurant then this may also be what has moulded the latests base sauces. One other theory I have is that books like KD's Curry Secret are presenting us with tasty dishes but in some recipies Old Technology , that is to say current restaurant recipies have moved on a bit. Let's be honest who would want to incur the wrath of all those restaurants and curry houses buy telling absolutely all. Same goes for Chinese Cookery Secrets. This book doesn't for instance give you the authentic Sweet & Sour sauce recipe posted elsewhere on this forum. One more point is you get cheap eateries and expensive ones as anywhere. This will directly effect the ingredients and skill of the chef. One theory I have to disagree with however is that all base sauces should be simple and everything is best put in at the end. The addition of an ingedient at any stage will have marked effect on the outcome. I think is plausible enough that any reasonable sized takeaway or restaurant may have 2 or 3 base sauces adapted for each type or should I say style of dish. For instance I made Annams base last night and I have KD's base in the Freezer and I know that the same curry made from each base will taste markedly different. However KD's base would maybe be more suited to a Korma,where as Annams to a Bhoona or Vindaloo. These bases would not taste the same nor the resulting curry if the same ingredients or should I say their different ingredients were added in at the end or near end of cooking. Another thing we need to be careful of is upscaling and downscaling recipies. On another of my forrays I learned to my cost "as Usual" that ingedients are not always directly proportional. I think I was upscaling the KD base and I found that instead of just double, quadrupling etc that in some cases I had a better result by adding say 1 tsp more of spice for each multiplication rather than adding 4 instead of two if you know what i mean. Again as I have seen mentioned elsewhere on this forum a skilled chef will have a feel for what is right. In summary
all hail the necky ones who have gotten into an BIR kitchen, All hail the chefs who have given us the recipies and finally all hail those that have made the efffort and posted recipies , pictures etc