Topic: Who's in?.

[fumble]

Sadly I think both CK and Naga Dave make good points. I can't but help wondering if the 'secret' of the taste, if there is one, is that it is something that would contravene H&S rules. Like re-using oil for example.

It also might explain why there are less BIRs (at least anecdotally) that have the 'taste' - they are cleaning up their act, maybe being driven by health concerns perhaps, but the net result is something similar to what we do at home i.e use less oil and don't reuse it.

[George]

It also might explain why there are less BIRs (at least anecdotally) that have the 'taste' - they are cleaning up their act, maybe being driven by health concerns...

This is one of the best suggestions I've yet heard on this matter. Smart thinking! You might well be right.

[haldi]

Is Bengal Cuisine known to have the superior "pre-1990" BIR taste we're after? As another member said, those superior curries are becoming harder to find but must be worth travelling for.

The BC demo gravies do not have the "taste" when made at home
Maybe they need to be full sized to work, in which case we would need a completely new recipe
I didn't try a curry where they used the main curry gravy pot
Does anyone live near enough to try one?
We've got loads of members, there must be someone in London near Brick Lane

[Yousef]

I can get to brick lane no worries.
I will investigate this.

S

[lorrydoo]

George, I think Fumble might be right also when he mentioned that good BIRs are becoming a it of a rarity and this might be due to health and safety issues.  But how do the good BIRs remain good over the years because they must also be subject to the same health and safety laws?  Or could it be the good ones cheat?

My favourite BIR (not a restaurant but a takeaway) has been around for years and is extremely popular and very well known around these parts.  When you order a chicken Madras or Vindaloo you have to specifically ask for "breast meat" or you end up getting the more undesirable parts of the chicken.  This to my mind must mean that they cook whole chickens on mass, probably boiling them.  Their curry sauce has a very strong chicken flavoured component to it but not like you would think.  Although it is strong, it in no way overwhelms everything and in fact it is more like a subtle after taste.  I have tried to recreate this effect using various methods including very concentrated chicken stock and stock cubes, this has always failed because it overwhelmed every thing.  Which brings me back to the health and safety and good BIR issue, the poor BIRs I have been to also have this chicken flavour but it is either too strong or virtually undetectable.

[Secret Santa]

I Have another idea but it involves a BIR chef, kidnap and torture.

Been there, done that...or was it a dream?   

[Secret Santa]

Just go down the spiced oil road.  CQ

That may be part of it but it ain't the whole.

[Secret Santa]

I can't but help wondering if the 'secret' of the taste, if there is one, is that it is something that would contravene H&S rules. Like re-using oil for example.

I'm pretty sure that there is an element of truth in that, the council hygiene inspectors are more thorough these days.

[haldi]

I can get to brick lane no worries.
I will investigate this.
S

Any news Stu?

[Cory Ander]

I'm "in" in principle, but I'm not convinced it's best to approach a BIR that already provides cooking lessons (i.e. Bengal Cuisine) and that members have already been to (i.e. Haldi and Curry Queen).  I presume that this has not enabled Haldi and Curry Queen to reproduce BIR, to their complete satisfaction, at home?

My suggested (albeit ideal) approach would be as follow:

• Identify a number of BIRs where the proprietor is personally known to a cr0 member, where an excellent relationship is already established (like the cr0 member having been in the kitchen and cooked their own meals!) and where the cr0 member can personally vouch for the quality of the food (the taste and smell and appearance) because they are regular and satisfied customers there.  There must be many such cr0 members that know of, and have established relationships with, such BIRs?  This should be the starting point - for these members to propose potential BIRs that produce curries, with the required taste, smell and appearance, who are worthy of, and possibly receptive to, an approach
• A number of cr0 members should independently verify that the proposed BIRs do indeed produce curries with the required taste, smell and appearance.  I accept that this may be geographically impractical.  From  what I've seen, I would trust Haldi, Curry King, Admin, Santa, George, Gary, Graeme, SmokenSpice, etc to determine whether or not a BIR actually achieves this.  No offence to anyone I've forgotten to mention....I am sure there are many more of our members who are also quite capable of doing so.....but it HAS to be that taste of the 80s that many of us can relate to and recognise
• Clearly document our requirements, for out own benefit as well as the proposed BIRs.  I think this should really be done before anyone makes anything other than a tentative "would you be at all interested" approach - least we go off cocked hat!  I would not be interested if we did not do this
• The end point should CLEARLY be to reproduce decent BIR curries, with the right taste, smell and appearance, in a normal domestic kitchen.  This simply HAS to be our aim.  No disrespect to anyone who feels quite capable of documenting the process in the BIR and then scaling it down themselves (I'm pretty sure could have a fair crack at doing it too!) but it would be far more preferable to target those BIRs that understand and share our ultimate aim and are very willing to help us.  I think we can phase payments to reflect these goals, for example, as follows:
  
  - 20% upfront payment to cover costs (payable against compliance with broad intent)
  
  - 40% payment for complete disclosure, witnessing, videoing, documenting the ingredients and entire cooking processes (curry base, precooked meats, a number of main dishes...start to finish...nothing whatsoever hidden) withing the BIR with normal volumes.  I think it is paramount to have the head chef there....not a mid week relief chef.  The quality can otherwise vary enormously!  Results must be validated in full (ideally by a number of members) to secure this payment.
  
  - 40% payment for replicating, witnessing, videoing, documenting the ingredients and entire cooking processes (curry base, precooked meats, a number of main dishes..start to finish) within the a domestic (ideally a cr0 member's) kitchen.  This should be reproduced by the chef, firstly, and then the cr0 member.  Results must be validated (ideally by a number of members)
• Whoever overseas the project must be capable of doing so to ensure that our goals are met and our money isn't squandered
• Whoever documents the process must be capable of doing so.  They must have an excellent eye for detail and procedures and be able to clearly and accurately document and communicate the results to us.  Ideally, they should be a competent process, manufacturing, or quality engineer, or such like, I suggest
• We need to determine who has access to the final results.  I, for one, would be reluctant to be one of a very small number of people who donates and then make the results available to the world.  We should think about restricted access.
• Finally, yes there are obstacles to achieving our goals but they are there to be overcome.  If we want something badly enough will will overcome any negativities and cynicism and scepticism....but it needs to be done right!

Sorry for the incomprehensible diatribe!  :