Topic: Why we cannot produce that missing taste ?

[adriandavidb]

I also convinced it's not the base, it's the way the spices are treating in the cooking of the final dish, and the ingredients in the final dish also,

[JerryM]

adriandavidb,

i use pretty much the same method as yourself except i put the spice in before the base. have u tried it this way or what led you to put the base in 1st.

i ask as i'm sure too that the treatment in cooking the final dish has a big effect (re chowie?s post). i found having tried both methods i get more toffee by putting the spices in 1st and this then produces the best tasting (most like BIR) curry. the only thing i have to do is be ready to put a 1/2 ladle of base in as soon as i get the toffee smell - this avoids the burning.

[adriandavidb]

JerryM

You make a good point, the base OR the chopped chillie (or pepper, onion, whatever) should do the job of helping to prevent the oil from overheating.  I  guess I'm just using a 'belt & braces' approach.  I think provided an excess of oil is present, it is not necesssary to use both.  The important thing, I think, is to cook the spice in the oil untill it JUST gets to the point where all the moisture has been driven out of the 'moisture containing ingredient' (base, pepper, whatever!), because once the moisture is gone there is nothing to stop the temperature of the oil climbing rapidly and burning all your hard work!  That said, the spice must be cooking in the 'oil rich environment long enough to extract the essential oils form the spice that constitute the flavours, that's why you don't get a BIR taste if you stop the spice-frying processs too soon (ie before the moisture has gone, indicated by a reduction in 'sizzle')

Using a heavy pan helps, it's far easier to ruin the spice in a wok, even though the temperature can be adjusted more quickly in a wok, it can climb really fast, spice can go from perfectly cooked to burnt in a couple of seconds if it's not watched carefully.  The disadvatage of a heavy pan is that once the pan get too hot, the only way to control things is to be ready to add more base quickly, simply reducing the gas will not have the immediate effect it would in a thin pan, BUT In my opinion you get more warning (and time to act) with a heavy fring pan.

The whole BIR thing is much more 'technique critical' than just about any other style (although chinese can be tricky!).  To get the optimum taste it is necessary to stop the spice frying bit of the final dish preparation just short of burning...

When I cook a bhuna, I fry garlic, then add, pepper and onion, then tom puree, and when THEN spice, so in that instance I add the base (much less, in a Bhuna) AFTER the spice, because there is a relataively larger amount of moisture containing veg in the pan to control oil temperature.

[JerryM]

thanks Adrian,

agree wholeheartedly on all your words. with my new stove i even managed to burn the tom puree before all the water had gone - i was gutted (i try to be very careful not to push the spices too much)

i'm going to have to ponder Haldi's words a bit more. if we're not searching for the toffee smell then do you have any thoughts on how this "small pile in the middle of the pan" can create this "APPETISING SMELL" that put?s u in a BIR if u close your eyes.

[chowie]

I've just had a call from the UK, my brother was in my old favorite BIR, he put me on to speak with the main man and after a few how you doings I explained the problems (briefly) I was having in this final curry stage, he was very helpful, a few pointers;

1. He sounded very surprised by my base and the way i was doing it, he said you've got all that right.

2. The spice mix as BE sounded the same as his

3. When I said about the final stage and burning of spices he added the same as some posts above, add a little Ginger and Garlic and he says they add water to stop the burning and leave for a few minutes, I was surprised we were talking on exactly the same wavelength as regards to adding some onion or pepper to start. Like i said it was brief and I may call him back at a less busier time, but he said wait until it's brown before adding the base, I think he will answer any questions so I will need to get back to him. Excited....

[JerryM]

Chowie

it's real good to get this kind of reassurance.

some further tips on cooking the spice and we'll all be very happy.

exciting is an understatement.

I've thought further on Haldi's observation about the burner going up when the pile is assembled - I can now see that this would work as long as the temp before was lower than I'm currently using (almost a low heat in my terminology - just enough to gently fry). This would solely fry off the rawness of the garlic/ginger/onion.

The onion (and optional pepper), garlic/ginger paste, and spices assembled in the pile would then cook out together producing a sort of combined "appetising smell" of which a part is the toffee aroma from the spice. The base being added as soon as this smell is produced and therefore any "singeing" is very little but perhaps enough to add that extra taste. One to try on my next base.

[haldi]

He sounded very surprised by my base and the way i was doing it, he said you've got all that right.

 When I said about the final stage and burning of spices he added the same as some posts above, add a little Ginger and Garlic and he says they add water to stop the burning and leave for a few minutes Excited....

You know, I really hope you can get some more details
About three years back, I made several curries which were my best ever.
I froze them, and don't know how I cooked them
The curries didn't seem that outstanding, at he time of cooking
I don't know even which base I used
So it can be done.
Surely someone has got to turn up a 100 percent recipe
I'm hoping it will be you
We need to know which base a which cooking method

I also convinced it's not the base

I am open to any ideas,but don't underestimate how nice the base is
If you manage to buy one, and try a bit
You first think it's a little bland and underspiced, but it has a special flavour too.
It requires willpower, not to at it on it's own!

[adriandavidb]

I must admit Haldi, I havn't tried using a 'bought' base as you have.  That may improve things still further!

I just meant that I tried a few variations on my own bases, but that the method of 'flashing-up' the final dish seems to ptoduce a higher degree of variation in the finished result.

Keep up the good work Sir!

[RobinB]

Just been watching saturday kitchen where the chefs were using smoked garlic, i'm tempted to give it a try in one of my final curries, might help with that smokey taste? BIR's of course wouldn't use this but theres no harm in trying something new.

[Bobby Bhuna]

You know the old "a chef can never enjoy his own curries as much" paradigm? I have some dust filtering type face masks, and I'm thinking of using one for my next curry to see if that actually holds. I hoping off slips the mask, in goes the BIR style home made curry. ;D