Topic: How to Get That BIR "Smokey/Toffee-Like" Taste (Illustrated!)

[Secret Santa]

despite more oil being added there is none on the surface of the finished dish - saying to me it's all been burnt into smoke.

Highly unlikely Jerry. I've noticed that the curry can soak up a heart-stoppingly large amount of oil before it will start releasing it at the end of cooking. This, in my experience, has varied with the type of base used, the quantity of spicing, and other factors too.

Simply put, curries love oil.

[JerryM]

Secret Santa,

yeah i definitely agree. the taste of the dish is not something u could get without oil (or probably more important enough of it) - it's the combination of the "soup" base, spice and oil which produces the magic we love.

what i feel though (probably obvious) is there is some connection between the amount of smokey taste and the amount of smoke produced whilst cooking. i think both technique and oil must play a big part. i tell u there's a lot of smoke.

before cooking at the higher heat i was always a healthy "mean" on the oil but did get some oil floating on the surface of the finished dish. i now use more oil but not significantly more (3 tbsp c/w 2tbsp originally). given there is always some oil on the surface of a BIR then i think DD may just have given me a push in the right direction. i'm now thinking i've been sort of boarder line with the oil hence the hit and miss (probably 3 tbsp in volume terms has sometimes been 4 when dolloping it into the pan).

it's going to be real interesting for me what happen's when i try out the 8 tbsp (7 - 9 DD's range). me being currently unsure how "technique" weighs in c/w the oil. i've had lost's of smoke and no taste in the past. trouble is this could have been down to not having the stove on enough (which i've now sorted with a marker on the control thumbwheel). there is definitely a point/cut off when the heat makes a difference.

[JerryM]

i made 1 off CK's madras last night using DD's suggestion of upping the oil. i used 2 chef spoon (8 tbsp) instead of my norm 3 tbsp. i also made 2 off kashmiri curries.

all 3 off had the smokiness. 1st time 100% consistency. the 8 tbsp seemed too much and might settle for something like 6 tbsp for madras in future. i used 4 tbsp for the kashmiri where i wasn't looking to get the smokiness.

cooking with the 8 tbsp was surprisingly very different (much easier).

i still don't know what/where in the cooking produces the difference but i'm hoping the effect of the extra oil was no fluke. i think it's what Haldi has said previously about the flames lapping up the sides of the pan and atomising the oil - but who cares.

if i can achieve a repeat then i'm sorted.

[joshallen2k]

Jerry - that's encouraging. And the curry looks lush.

A lot of your experiments in this thread seemed very hit and miss, so I hope you've got it sorted.

I too have gone from 3 tbsp oil to around 5 tbsp as the result seems better. You can always skim excess oil the end.

-- Josh

[CurryOnRegardless]

Looking good JerryM.

Purely co-incidentally I've just started upping the oil from a lot to outrageous amounts (technical terms). I find that covering the bottom of the pan quite liberally, say 1/16th inch seems to give good results, giving a nice 'emulsion in oil' finish to the curry just like in your photo. The left overs have a nice border of red oil after a night in the fridge, another good sign in my book anyway.

Curry on
CoR

[Secret Santa]

All you need to do now Jerry is to scoop off as much of that oil as you possibly can and use it to start off your next curry. It makes all the difference.

[JerryM]

Josh, CoR, Secret Santa,

some interesting thoughts to chew on (5 tbsp, 1/16" or 2mm, scooping off).

i'm still trying to taken on board the difference upping the oil had on the madras in terms of taste and ease of cooking.

this will keep me going for quite a while. i'm going to try 6 tbsp next and perhaps a 4 tbsp. the scooping off is also something that crossed my mind (we actually spooned some off whilst eating and i put this in my onion paste jar - perhaps wasted opportunity emm!).

the big thing is to keep the hits coming. i am pretty confident though that it was the oil all the time and that i was sort of teetering on the border line. there can't really be any other explanation (especially given the taste was there in the 2 off kasmiri curries which i did not expect or plan for)

[JerryM]

i'm now sorted on this.

i will use 6 tbsp (1.5 chef spoon) in madras and 4 tbsp in other curries.

surprisingly i've found the extra oil cooks the onion and garlic with no problems from raw (avoiding the need to pre fry or par boil). i added raw garlic slithers last night on top of the chopped garlic and they cooked to perfection. the raw chopped onion does the same.

the emulsification stage seems to have a better tolerance too ensuring u can work well away from the "burnt" end of the spectrum.

there is no 1 off point where the smokiness taste is produced (only really noticeable at the end). consequently i'm sure it's down to a slow build up during the evap stage. i can't work out the mechanism. i'm pretty sure it's to do with small bubbles of oil/steam being given off from the surface of the curry and coming into contact with the flames lapping around the pan. a sort of vapourisation must occur which somehow puts the smokiness into the curry. there is also a constant plume of smoke being given off which is associated in some way - without the smoke there is no smokiness.

anyhow matters not for me. i can now move on to recipe refinement.

[JerryM]

a word of caution on this. the smokiness is not for everyone and certainly not for every dish.

last night i made CK's CTM and of course it ended up with the smokiness. my customer who loves his CK's CTM complained that the dish was poor compared to normal - down to it having smokiness.

for me though 4 curries cooked and 4 off with smokiness - just need to update the recipes where it's not needed to keep the complaints down.

ps i'll try and get a pic during the cooking (need to work on it - already tried but proving a tad difficult to capture it well enough)

[JerryM]

update: having settled on using more oil (4 tbsp std ~1 chef spoon, 6 tbsp smokiness)

in using more oil i'm finding it much easier cooking and getting good consistency.

i'd found for a while that my pan was prone to getting black debris around the base of the rim on the inside. given that i was getting good results i felt confident enough to turn the heat down a little (tried 3/6th turn ie 1/2 a rev on the thumbwheel instead of 4/6 turn which has been my norm for some time).

i have no idea how much this reduces the heat but it worked a treat. i still had to use a tea towel over the end of the pan handle to tip the dish out of the pan into the serving bowl so not that much reduction. i still got plumes (lots) of smoke and the flames still sit above the rim of the pan.