Topic: Who believes there is a secret ingredient to the curry base?

[Mark J]

I have been in 2 kitchens and seen 5 dishes cooked, both places used fenugreek leaves in the final curry, both had the thinnish yellow base sauce, both had that taste. Im not sure if they used oil off the top of the gravy, they certainly didnt skim it off at the time of cooking, both had a little pot of oil on the stove.

[Yellow Fingers]

Hey Adamski, now who's mad? Don't do too much thinking, this curry secret thing can become an obsession! ?

Seriously though I had had thoughts along the same lines as you. When the Bangladeshis first started opening curry houses in the late 40's early 50's, it is quite likely they would have found some spices difficult to source, at least initially, so they may have experimented with substitutes. I think this is where the secret ingredient first reared its ugly head. But it must also make it an everyday available item, so it's nothing exotic, it's just unknown.

I think the methi or dried fenugreek leaf issue is closed. They definitely add a certain curry smell to the dish and people have seen chefs use them so we can conclude that they are a necessary ingredient, but I don't think they are the secret ingredient.

Also I think that while the use of spiced oil adds to the dish, it still doesn't make the curry takeaway-like, it just gets it closer to the real thing.

That unique restaurant curry smell will be the defining point in the search for this ingredient or ingredients. When our curries are indistinguishable from restaurant curries by smell alone then I think the quest will have ended.

[Blondie]

Hi All,

I've said several times in other forums that I do not believe that the taste we are looking for is in the oil.  I feel fairly sure that the oil is re-used but, if you taste the oil from a finished takeaway curry it has very little flavor, and certainly not the taste that we are looking for.

cheers all,

Blondie

[ghanna]

hi ,all
i cooked every gravy recipe in this forum.
i cooked different curry gravies from the net ,from chefs. from Friends that they got it ?from their take away or the restaurant that they go to and from different cookbooks.
 i got about 50 recipes for the gravy some of them they use milk instead of water to cook the gravy , some of them they used a spicy stock called AKHNI, some of them used red lentils ,some used chana dal .
some recipes said brown the onions .some said no just boil them
some said brown the garlic and ginger and some said no just boil them.
some said fry the garlic and ginger in the beginning of making the gravy , others said no just add it at the end.
some of the recipes said use potato some said no
some of them used red pepper and some of them didnot use it.
some of the recipes used some kind of ?raddish called (mooli) ,others used raddish.
some of the recipes used CELERIAC and some just use celery.
some used tomato puree and others used tomato paste, as well some recipes didnot use tomato at all.
some recipes used oil others used ghee.
some used curry powder ?others used different kinds of spices.
some of them used ajwan seeds others used black cumin seeds and others used black onion seeds ?still others used a spice blend called ?PANCH FORAN and fry them ?in oil before they add any thing else.
some use fenugreek leaves in the gravy some say no just add it at the end.
some ?use coconut ,almond , cashewnut ,condensed milk or evaporated milk.
some use whole garam masala in the beginning some do not use it at all.
some use ready made masala paste some just stick to curry powder.
some use monosodium glutamate (MSG) some not.
some use tomato ketchup in the gravy
some use tamarind in their base others use plain yogurt.
some fry a spice called ASAFOETIDA in oil before they add any thing else.
some other use coconut milk.
some use a very expensive spice called SAFFRON.and some use turmeric.
some use a spice oil some use just plain oil

Believe me i try ed every one of them ?but none of them tasted like the proper gravy with
that very very nice taste ?.there is something missing ?a very nice taste i cannot duplicate it.

some of the recipes i used 10 kg of onions i thought may ?be if i cook in bulk i will get that taste but i didnot get any far .
some times i leave the gravy for two or three days and then cook with it but no luck in getting that missing taste.
i try ed every recipe ,every technique but i am not getting far.
could you please tell me why ?
thanks
ghanna

 ?

[adamski]

Blimey Ghanna you've just about covered everything. Based on this there must be a secret.

Right the only way to find the answer is for all of us to club together, put ?50 each in the pot (not alot considering how much money we must have wasted on this pursuit). Bribe a chef to show us everything, from sauce to finish, then we taste it (money
back if it's not right).

Or bribe one of the waiters or a lower paid member of the kitchen, everyone has a price!

[Yellow Fingers]

Nice post ghanna, it summarises nicely the majority of variations found in the base sauce debate, and like you I too have tried them all.

i try ed every recipe ,every technique but i am not getting far.
could you please tell me why ?

Yes I can. There is an ingredient or perhaps less likely a cooking technique used in the base sauce of real curry houses that we are not using. It has to be in the base sauce as that is the only thing our 'observers' have not seen made from start to finish.

But you knew that already didn't you!

[pete]

When I have got into the restaurant kitchens or if I am buying a takeaway, I always have a discreet look at every ingredient on their shelves and tables.
I have recipes using worcester sauce, but I have never seen it in a takeaway.
Has anyone else?
As for chicken stock, I think it's an uncomftable but strong possibility.
Uncomfortable for vegetarians that is.
Perhaps it is considered too much trouble to make, to show at the demos.
It would involve boiling scraps and bones.
I tried making a stock with lamb bones one time (as suggested by Pat Chapman)
That was upsetting and didn't taste right.
But most people like chicken and adding chicken in some form, to the gravy would improve the flavour.
On the plus side, I think the gravies we have are very close now.
It just needs a touch of..................??

[ghanna]

hi,all
i bribed one of the kitchen staff once , this is what he said ....
don't peel onion,garlic or ginger just but them in boiling water the night before,
next morning they are going to be very easy to peel ,peel onions and garlic but not the ginger
don't chop garlic or onions but put them whole in the big gravy pot ,chop the ginger coarsely and add to pot.
cover with water and bring to boil, boil until every thing is cooked (he don't know for how long but he said for ages )
the chef will come after that and add a lot of powder ( this is what he told me when i asked him what is there in the powder   I DO NOT KNOW  THE CHEF ALAWAYS BRING IT WITH HIM  FROM HOME IN THE SAME DAY THAT WE ARE MAKING THE GRAVY ) , i tried to put some pressure on him  but really he didnot know,he is a very honest man and i know that from a previous experience.
after that the chef but new oil and as well the oil from the old gravy  he told me we don't through any oil away we use it and re-use it over and over again.
the chef add a big tin about 1 kg of tomato puree  and a medium tin of tomato paste.some salt, boil for a long time  then puree until it is very smooth .
cook again until oil rises to the top of the gravy .
they don't use it in the same day but the following day.
 when they are making the curries they alaways fry some onions garlic and ginger(slightly cooked previously ) in the beginning then they add some   tomato paste and spices and the main ingredient (chicken, lamb or prawn ) then the curry gravy and boil for some time  then they add one of these ingredients ( coconut , almonds, cashewnut or evaporated milk, rose water or kewra water  .it depend which kind of curry you want  i.e KORMA . pasanda   .......etc.
in some of the curries they add fenugreek leaves at the end but not in all of them
as well they add chopped coriander leaves at the end.
this what he told me .all of us know that but we don't know what is there in the powder that the chef use.
when they arrive in the kitchen at about 4:00 they start cooking the chicken ,lamb and defrost the prawn in just boiling water.
they use garlic,ginger , curry powder,salt , water to cook the chicken and lamb
the lamb will take longer to cook so they use some thing green called papaya as a tenderizer in order to cook the lamb quickly.
i hope i helped
i like this  site . all the people her are very friendly and every one trying to help
thanks .
GOD bless all of you
ghanna

[Yellow Fingers]

Hi ghanna

don't peel onion,garlic or ginger just but them in boiling water the night before,
next morning they are going to be very easy to peel ,peel onions and garlic but not the ginger

Now that's very interesting and here's why. During the second world war when all food was in short supply, all sorts of tricks were used to improve the daily diet. One of these tricks was to boil the onions unpeeled because it gives the dish a browner colour and adds to the flavour. It was used in place of gravy browning. So it makes me think, is it worth a try in the base sauce? It may not be the secret on its own, but it might be one step closer.

Of course it has the ring of truth to it as well, because most restaurants will take any short cut that saves time or money or both.

You mention tomato puree and tomato paste. What's the difference?

[Yellow Fingers]

Hi adamski

Or bribe one of the waiters or a lower paid member of the kitchen, everyone has a price!

Don't think I haven't thought about that one before.

But here's the strange thing. There are about 70,000 people employed in Britains' curry houses, almost all of Bangladeshi origin and most on minimum wage and even sub minimum wage. Is it possible that of these 70,000 people not one hasn't seen this site or ones like it and not seen a money making opportunity? And yet not a sniff of help or interest seems to be forthcoming from them.

I don't know what to conclude from that, but one way or another it seems a bit weird!