Topic: Meat tenderness

[Pakora King]

Has anyone got any tips for the holy grail of achieving the amazing tender lamb and beef of the BIRs of old?

Many recipes I see say eg use chuck or stewing steak for curries as if it doesn't matter - I've never found that, if you start with tough meat, you'll end up with the same. Only tried the slow cooker a couple of times but was disappointed there also.

So what's best, do you just get the best you can afford or would a Halal butcher be a better option?

[Peripatetic Phil]

I don't know how they did it in the days of old, but nor does my lamb/mutton/goat end up tough unless I try to rush things.  No idea what might be going wrong at your end, but if all else fails you could try meat tenderiser, or include pineapple core or papaya in your recipe (probably best in a dhansak, but might not be too noticeable in other dishes).  And definitely not "the best I can afford"

[livo]

Tender meat has nothing to do with Halal.  Halal is a certification that food has been processed in a manner and uses only ingredients that are acceptable (lawful) to those of the Muslim faith.  Not surprisingly, it also involves money.  Mecca and sharp knives have no affect on the cooking process which is where tender meat happens.  There is a lot already written about tender lamb and beef on the forum.  Here is one discussion from a while ago.

https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=13188.0

I'm not sure about the UK or other parts of the world, but over here it is essentially not possible to buy meat products that aren't Halal certified, and we pay extra for the privilege, Muslim or not.  I was in the large wholesale butchers the other day when the serving attendant took a phone call and confirmed to the caller that all meat and chicken sold was Halal certified.  I know that the large supermarket chains also make the same claims.  I used to deliver goods to the local abattoir where the certifying Imams could be seen every day.

One of my best fishing buddies is a practising Muslim.  I have no problem with Halal but it isn't the difference you are seeking.

Chuck steak and stewing steak is recommended because it is the best cut to use for long slow cooking, and it is more affordable.  There is no way I would ever make a curry out of Rib Eye Fillet or Sirloin.  There are 3 reasons. Firstly the cost, then the fact that the meat simply wouldn't stand up to the cooking process and lastly because there are many better ways to use quality meat.  At a pinch you could use Rump or Topsides for a curry.  (Flash wok frying fillet steak is a different matter.)

The same applies to lamb / mutton.  Legs and shoulders for curry.  I've also lately been using shank meat which works really well but I have other preferred dishes for shanks.  Loins and backstraps are not going into any curry I make for the same reasons given for beef.

[Garp]

I always use a variation of Panpot's recipe/method for precooked lamb. It has never failed me:

www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3922.msg35424#msg35424]

As Livo says, shoulder or leg are ideal. Tesco often put half-legs or half-shoulders on half price offer.

[mickyp]

Got three legs half price from Tesco to debone and chop up, defo room temp before pre cooking works for me

[Pakora King]

Good to know it's not a Halal thing. I've made many beef and lamb curries over the years using standard methods involving cooking for over an hour in the pot, recently I tried a 5 hour slow cooker method and the lamb was still tough enough to almost need a steak knife to cut it.

In days of old in the Glasgow places you didn't need a knife at all, a fork was usually sufficient and the meat always melted in the mouth. Over the years I've tried stewing steak/chuck steak/cubed lamb from the supermarket etc. always with similar results. Surely you shouldn't have to tenderise, I've never seen this mentioned in any recipe?

[livo]

I have no explanation for your results, especially the 5 hour slow cooked lamb.  I personally have no problem achieving stewed or curried beef and lamb that is tender.  Remember though that it isn't just the extended time but also lower cooking temperature. 

Have you checked the temperature of the slow cooker?  Is it a good quality unit? My multi-cooker has a pre-programmed 8 hour setting that you have to interrupt if you want a shorter cook time.  Slow lamb in the oven can be 7 hours at only 100'C fan forced.

I rarely ever buy pre-diced meat as it is usually cut too small. Lamb needs to be 2" / 50mm cubes and beef not much smaller.  You may struggle to get tender meat if you have small pieces.  Even at low temperature it cooks too quick.

The recipe for the slow lamb from Lizottes that is on Page 2 of the linked thread above, calls for lamb shanks. I usually prepare it with boned out legs cut into fist size pieces. For 8-10 people I'll cook 2 legs.

[Secret Santa]

Long cook on low heat, that's all there is to it. Usually a couple of hours for lamb.

[livo]

Long cook on low heat, that's all there is to it. Usually a couple of hours for lamb.