Topic: How do you know when you are "there" ?

[Peripatetic Phil]

when it's heated on it's own.  Many places start off a Korma with simply the base heated in the pan.  You would definitely notice the amazing aroma then

OK, understood.

I'm not sure what the recipe is for karahi lamb,, but perhaps that is one of the stronger flavoured curries.  A  strong flavour hides any shortcomings of the base  But I don't know what that tasted like.  Wouldn't mind trying.

Well, it's hard to describe, but you could certainly tell that it was lamb and not (say) beef, so I imagine that that indicates that the karahi masala wasn't over-powering things.

we really need some get together, to at least  reset the understanding of what we are achieving.  If this was arranged with 5 people, then we should each bring 5 sample cartons of our cooking to exchange with each other.  Go home, try our given samples and chat about it.  I could even get some proper curry gravy from a takeaway,  Should be able to do that

Sadly, living in Cornwall and no longer in Kent, I am unlikely to be able to take part.  But if I were to want to take part, I would feel intimidated by being asked to bring five dishes.  I could manage three with ease (one chicken curry, one lamb curry with very different spicing to the chicken, and one pulao rice.  Four I could manage but would be less keen.  Five would be just too much pressure for too little reward.

I have seen the base made up at three places.  The only differences between that and what we do at home is :

1 Scale
2 Bhajee oil
3 the length of time the base is cooked

I really do not believe that scale is significant (but of course I may be wrong).  And I have no problem cooking a base over several days, if that will help.  But do I really need to cook bhajis in the oil, or could I just add the ingredients of a typical onion bhaji without bothering to actually make them, and then filter the gunge out at the end.  I might give it a go, as I have no base at the moment.

I'm now 63, and believe it's unlikely I will get  to the bottom of this "simple"problem

And I'm 72 in two month's time (insh'Allah and D.v. ) and I am far closer this year than I have been any year before. So don't give up, Pete !

** Phil.

[livo]

It seems that the spiced oil / reclaimed oil / bhaji oil has been done and done again, and it may add something and be, or has been, industry practice for whatever reason.  Can it be undisputedly claimed it to be the mysterious missing taste?  Probably not! This is because others dispute it, or have tried it and found it to be not really worth the effort.  I've tried it and I agree it has to add something.  One thing it will certainly add is a level of commonality to all dishes it's used in.  If there is spiced oil to be reclaimed and used, I sometimes do it.  However, my "best" curries have not come from it's inclusion.  My best curries have usually come about accidentally, resultant of my habit of straying from the recipe instructions and / or ingredients slightly through laziness, clumsiness, forgetfulness, ingredient availability, experimentally and / or inebriation level.  Unfortunately for me, it isn't from knowledge or skill and I rarely document everything I do and consequently my occasional accidental successes are unrepeatable.

While it may theoretically be possible to simulate used commercial oil at home (CT#1 recently called it manky oil *¹), it is probably unrealistic.  If this is a critical element, I would have to agree with Pete that commercial BIR base gravy is not achievable at home or at the very least, difficult. Alternatively, we would need to go and source some commercial BIR used oil and use it to make base gravy at home.  The fabricated attempts at spiced oil must be very close.

I agree with Phil in as much as the scale of the base gravy itself is irrelevant, all else being constant.  Prolonged cooking is possible and flavor development by aging in traditional curries and stews is widely known and accepted.  However, I just used Latif's base gravy that's been in the fridge for nearly a week and really can't say it was any different.

For the most part, I'm OK with what I'm producing.  It may not be top notch tucker but it'll do for now and it often does pass the cold test for me as well.

Either way, the information that is supposed to be "secret", actually isn't.  It is on this site and others.

*¹ Manky def: adjective 1) Inferior, worthless, 2) Dirty and unpleasant.

[pete]

we really need some get together, to at least  reset the understanding of what we are achieving.  If this was arranged with 5 people, then we should each bring 5 sample cartons of our cooking to exchange with each other.  Go home, try our given samples and chat about it.  I could even get some proper curry gravy from a takeaway,  Should be able to do that

Sadly, living in Cornwall and no longer in Kent, I am unlikely to be able to take part.  But if I were to want to take part, I would feel intimidated by being asked to bring five dishes.  I could manage three with ease (one chicken curry, one lamb curry with very different spicing to the chicken, and one pulao rice.  Four I could manage but would be less keen.  Five would be just too much pressure for too little reward.

although I see that it's unlikely we can meet. that's not what I meant by 5 sample cartons.
 I didn't mean 5 different curries..
 I meant 5 the same.
you cook your best  curry and fill up 5 cartons
you would give one to each of the 5 people that we  were meeting
everyone would do the same
so everyone would go home with one sample of everyone's cooking

.  And I have no problem cooking a base over several days, if that will help.  But do I really need to cook bhajis in the oil, or could I just add the ingredients of a typical onion bhaji without bothering to actually make them, and then filter the gunge out at the end.  I might give it a go, as I have no base at the moment.

seriously don't bother trying to make the oil
that's the whole point
you can't make it at home, you simply don't have the volume of bhajees etc to fry in it
you need hundreds
the oil is essentially a stock

While it may theoretically be possible to simulate used commercial oil at home (CT#1 recently called it manky oil *¹), it is probably unrealistic.  If this is a critical element, I would have to agree with Pete that commercial BIR base gravy is not achievable at home or at the very least, difficult. Alternatively, we would need to go and source some commercial BIR used oil and use it to make base gravy at home. 

I did get some oil and made curries with the BIR aroma
The takeaway I got it from, had a fridge full of the oil
They kept it in opened, large tomato puree cans
But maybe there is another way to do this
I am still  open minded
That's why I thought if we could try each others curries,, you could see if someone  has really cracked the problem

[Peripatetic Phil]

you cook your best  curry and fill up 5 cartons.  you would give one to each of the 5 people that we  were meeting.  everyone would do the same.  so everyone would go home with one sample of everyone's cooking

Understood.

seriously don't bother trying to make the oil.  that's the whole point.  you can't make it at home, you simply don't have the volume of bhajees etc to fry in it.  you need hundreds.  the oil is essentially a stock

"Hundreds" if I am trying to make oil in restaurant quantities, but I am not

[RaphaelNis]

Do you manage to get oil at tens of bhajis? How much exactly, do you know? That's an idea I've been toying around for a while now too. Not tried it yet though.

[Peripatetic Phil]

I don't understand, Raphael.  Are you thinking that we plan to press the bhajis to extract the oil ?  If so, that is not the idea.  Rather, the idea is to cook the bhajis in oil that will eventually be used to make a base.

** Phil.

[Garp]

My opinion, for what it's worth.

I stopped searching for that 100% BIR flavour/aroma when I realised it doesn't exist

[Peripatetic Phil]

My opinion, for what it's worth.  I stopped searching for that 100% BIR flavour/aroma when I realised it doesn't exist

So if it doesn't exist, what is it that we experience when we dine in a better (but not modern/contemporary/w-h-y) British Indian Restaurant ?

** Phil.

[Secret Santa]

"Hundreds" if I am trying to make oil in restaurant quantities, but I am not

[Secret Santa]

I stopped searching for that 100% BIR flavour/aroma when I realised it doesn't exist

 So I imagined that unique flavour and aroma from the pre-nineties curries that doesn't exist in modern curries then?  I must be more in my dotage than I thought.

Seriously though, I really hope you said that with tongue firmly in cheek or it's just insulting.