Topic: 10 year curry house experience- Pre-cooked meat and veg.

[andy2295]

Hi all.

To continue from the base sauce/gravy.

Pre-Cooking Meats and Vegetables.

The takeaway and restaurant list per example Chicken Madras or Meat Madras on the menu. The chicken is obvious but listing Meat gives them the option of using either mutton or lamb. The chicken and meat arrive pre-cubed in large plastic bags from the wholesale butcher.

Here is what happens:-

Towards the end of the evening 2 large saucepans are placed onto a work surface.
Into each saucepan is put 2 ladles of oil, 1 level tablespoon of turmeric and 1 level tablespoon of tomato puree, about 6 asian bay leaves and four finely chopped garlic cloves. Both are given a good stir to mix. Then the cubed chicken is added to one and the cubed meat to the other. Everything in the pans is tossed to coat the meats with the mixture. They are then lidded and left overnight in the cooler cabinet. This is to top up the already pre-cooked meat to the levels of what was started with at the beginning of the night. They calculate this by adding up the amount of dishes sold (simple).

The following day at around midday when the kitchen staff arrive 2 ladles of the base sauce/gravy which is obviously cold are added to each pan and stirred in.
Heat is applied to both pans constantly stirring. When boiling the heat is reduced to a simmer and boiling water is added to just cover the meat in both pans stirring to mix.

The chicken is left to simmer for approx 20 minutes and the chicken is skewered to ensure it is cooked. The heat is removed and the chicken is removed with a slotted chefs spoon to drain the fluid and placed in a container and left to cool.

The meat is left to simmer for approx 1 hour to obtain the tenderness. The heat is removed and the meat is removed with a slotted chef?s spoon and placed in a container and left to cool.

The Chef?s Note: The same measurements of turmeric, asian bay leaves, finely chopped garlic and tomato puree along with base sauce are used no matter how little or how much chicken and meat are being pre-cooked. The only variable is the water. I mentioned about other spices and he said no, no, no! The pre-cooked meat has to be used for dishes such as Korma and Passanda. No heat or spices he said.

So to the vegetables.

Potatoes.

These are cut into small cubes and simply boiled in Water with a touch of salt and a tablespoon of turmeric. Nothing more, nothing less. The potatoes are only just cooked so they remain solid without breaking up. They are then kept in the fridge for use.

Cauliflower.

Here frozen cauliflower florets are used and cooked exactly the same as the potatoes.

Next post very soon

Regards
Andy

[Chilli Prawn]

Thanks Andy for this extensive and detailed post.  I feel I must take your retaurant to task because what you report is not safe and would be condemmed by your local Health & Hygiene people if they knew of these practices.  I have outlined my comments below in red.  Please do not be offended I am just trying to help and reduce risks.  Hopefully it will not really apply to our home cooks.

CP

Hi all.

To continue from the base sauce/gravy.

Pre-Cooking Meats and Vegetables.

The takeaway and restaurant list per example Chicken Madras or Meat Madras on the menu. The chicken is obvious but listing Meat gives them the option of using either mutton or lamb. The chicken and meat arrive pre-cubed in large plastic bags from the wholesale butcher.

I hope these are kept well chilled and seperated during the day

Here is what happens:-

Towards the end of the evening 2 large saucepans are placed onto a work surface.
Into each saucepan is put 2 ladles of oil, 1 level tablespoon of turmeric and 1 level tablespoon of tomato puree, about 6 asian bay leaves and four finely chopped garlic cloves. Both are given a good stir to mix. Then the cubed chicken is added to one and the cubed meat to the other. Everything in the pans is tossed to coat the meats with the mixture. They are then lidded and left overnight in the cooler cabinet.

OK with this providing all ingredients are chilled to the same temperature

This is to top up the already pre-cooked meat to the levels of what was started with at the beginning of the night.

This strictly illegal and highly dangerous.  Batches must NEVER be mixed and each batch must be labelled with a DAY LABEL and production date.  All catering establisments have to follow these rules or they will be closed down

They calculate this by adding up the amount of dishes sold (simple).

The following day at around midday when the kitchen staff arrive 2 ladles of the base sauce/gravy which is obviously cold are added to each pan and stirred in.
Heat is applied to both pans constantly stirring. When boiling the heat is reduced to a simmer and boiling water is added to just cover the meat in both pans stirring to mix.

This is OK and similar to the average BIR approach, but I must stress that clean ladles are used and a separate ladle for each meat product.  Also you must not let the ladles come in contact with the meat or you will cross-contaminate the base and meat and create bacterial growth which at best will just shorten the shelf life of the products or a worse cause food poisioning.  This does apply to home cooks so beware please.

The chicken is left to simmer for approx 20 minutes and the chicken is skewered to ensure it is cooked. The heat is removed and the chicken is removed with a slotted chefs spoon to drain the fluid and placed in a container and left to cool.

Yes, the chicken should be only just cooked, but must be left in the oil with no heat applied to cool down.  It should not be removed from the liquor as this will immediately cause bacterial growth deterioration.  The chicken and cooking liquor/oil may be transferred to sterilised container, e.g. that has been washed in a dishwasher, and topped up with fresh oil to cover it by about 1 centimetre, and a lid placed on the container.  This will prevent deterioration  and also means that it can be kept stored in the fridge for about a week (keep topping up the oil). The Chicken must not be stored dry as you suggest unless it is to be totally used up during the following Service period.  If this sounds familiar, I have already posted this.

The meat is left to simmer for approx 1 hour to obtain the tenderness. The heat is removed and the meat is removed with a slotted chef?s spoon and placed in a container and left to cool.

The comment above equally applies to red meats.

The Chef?s Note: The same measurements of turmeric, asian bay leaves, finely chopped garlic and tomato puree along with base sauce are used no matter how little or how much chicken and meat are being pre-cooked. The only variable is the water. I mentioned about other spices and he said no, no, no! The pre-cooked meat has to be used for dishes such as Korma and Passanda. No heat or spices he said.

Yes I agree, but I use as little water as possible as the Chicken and meat will release quite a lot during cooking.  I prefer to use lots of oil and a little water

So to the vegetables.

Potatoes.

These are cut into small cubes and simply boiled in Water with a touch of salt and a tablespoon of turmeric. Nothing more, nothing less. The potatoes are only just cooked so they remain solid without breaking up. They are then kept in the fridge for use.

It is very unusal that no oil is used during the process.  I know that most Indian chefs will add a little oil to the boiling water and coat the potatoes with oil after cooking also.  This stops the potatoes drying, breaking up, and going black, and preserves them longer.  Also waxy potatoes should be used (see long discussions on this elsewhere)

Cauliflower.

Here frozen cauliflower florets are used and cooked exactly the same as the potatoes.

Yuch, I abandoned using frozen a long time back and when I have queried my cheffy friends they have done so as well.  Frozen florets are too tough so have to be overcooked.

Next post very soon

Regards
Andy

Keep it coming Andy.

[andy2295]

hi all
Just want to clarify what cp has said. I have compressed the text somewhat in the original post to save on typing. Perhaps not a good thing to do.

Pre-Cooking Meats and Vegetables.

The takeaway and restaurant list per example Chicken Madras or Meat Madras on the menu. The chicken is obvious but listing Meat gives them the option of using either mutton or lamb. The chicken and meat arrive pre-cubed in large plastic bags from the wholesale butcher.

I hope these are kept well chilled and seperated during the day

YES THE MEAT IS KEPT CHILLED AND SEPERATED. STANDARD FOOD PRACTICE

Here is what happens:-

Towards the end of the evening 2 large saucepans are placed onto a work surface.
Into each saucepan is put 2 ladles of oil, 1 level tablespoon of turmeric and 1 level tablespoon of tomato puree, about 6 asian bay leaves and four finely chopped garlic cloves. Both are given a good stir to mix. Then the cubed chicken is added to one and the cubed meat to the other. Everything in the pans is tossed to coat the meats with the mixture. They are then lidded and left overnight in the cooler cabinet.

OK with this providing all ingredients are chilled to the same temperature

YES EVERYTHINGIS KEPT CHILLED AND SEPERATED. STANDARD FOOD PRACTICE


This is to top up the already pre-cooked meat to the levels of what was started with at the beginning of the night.

This strictly illegal and highly dangerous.  Batches must NEVER be mixed and each batch must be labelled with a DAY LABEL and production date.  All catering establisments have to follow these rules or they will be closed down.

NO BATCHES ARE EVER MIXED. THEY ARE KEPT IN SEPERATE CONTAINERS AND DATED

They calculate this by adding up the amount of dishes sold (simple).

The following day at around midday when the kitchen staff arrive 2 ladles of the base sauce/gravy which is obviously cold are added to each pan and stirred in.
Heat is applied to both pans constantly stirring. When boiling the heat is reduced to a simmer and boiling water is added to just cover the meat in both pans stirring to mix.

This is OK and similar to the average BIR approach, but I must stress that clean ladles are used and a separate ladle for each meat product.  Also you must not let the ladles come in contact with the meat or you will cross-contaminate the base and meat and create bacterial growth which at best will just shorten the shelf life of the products or a worse cause food poisioning.  This does apply to home cooks so beware please.

THE TAKEAWAY NEVER USES SAME LADLES. THERE ARE ABOUT 12 LADLES USED SEPERATELY

The chicken is left to simmer for approx 20 minutes and the chicken is skewered to ensure it is cooked. The heat is removed and the chicken is removed with a slotted chefs spoon to drain the fluid and placed in a container and left to cool.

Yes, the chicken should be only just cooked, but must be left in the oil with no heat applied to cool down.  It should not be removed from the liquor as this will immediately cause bacterial growth deterioration.  The chicken and cooking liquor/oil may be transferred to sterilised container, e.g. that has been washed in a dishwasher, and topped up with fresh oil to cover it by about 1 centimetre, and a lid placed on the container.  This will prevent deterioration  and also means that it can be kept stored in the fridge for about a week (keep topping up the oil). The Chicken must not be stored dry as you suggest unless it is to be totally used up during the following Service period.  If this sounds familiar, I have already posted this.

THE MEATS ARE STORED IN OIL FILLED CONTAINERS WITH LIDS ON
The meat is left to simmer for approx 1 hour to obtain the tenderness. The heat is removed and the meat is removed with a slotted chef?s spoon and placed in a container and left to cool.

The comment above equally applies to red meats.

The Chef?s Note: The same measurements of turmeric, asian bay leaves, finely chopped garlic and tomato puree along with base sauce are used no matter how little or how much chicken and meat are being pre-cooked. The only variable is the water. I mentioned about other spices and he said no, no, no! The pre-cooked meat has to be used for dishes such as Korma and Passanda. No heat or spices he said.

Yes I agree, but I use as little water as possible as the Chicken and meat will release quite a lot during cooking.  I prefer to use lots of oil and a little water

JUST A DIFFERENT APPROACH USED
So to the vegetables.

Potatoes.

These are cut into small cubes and simply boiled in Water with a touch of salt and a tablespoon of turmeric. Nothing more, nothing less. The potatoes are only just cooked so they remain solid without breaking up. They are then kept in the fridge for use.

It is very unusal that no oil is used during the process.  I know that most Indian chefs will add a little oil to the boiling water and coat the potatoes with oil after cooking also.  This stops the potatoes drying, breaking up, and going black, and preserves them longer.  Also waxy potatoes should be used (see long discussions on this elsewhere)

OIL IS ADDED FOR STORAGE ONLY

Cauliflower.

Here frozen cauliflower florets are used and cooked exactly the same as the potatoes.

Yuch, I abandoned using frozen a long time back and when I have queried my cheffy friends they have done so as well.  Frozen florets are too tough so have to be overcooked.

THESE ARE PRE_COOKED FLORETS AND THEN FROZEN

Next post very soon

Regards
Andy

[King Prawn]

It is great to see some quality discussion going on here. It is also interesting to see how different establishments (and chefs) can prepare a dish in slightly different ways.

KP(V)

[Chilli Prawn]

Thanks for your clarification Andy.  I have been caught like this through bad editing before and been jumped on by this mad (but lovable) lot.  You will note I am a bit anal when it comes to Health, Safety & Hygiene; this is because I would get screwed by my local Council H&H team if I said anything different (the local Govt guys do check sites like these I am told).  Keep up the good work.

CP

[NairB]

Andy & Chilli Prawn, you two guys are a team......many thanks for stressing the importance of health & safety here.

I'm very new to cooking and this is something I may have overlooked, until now. 

[laynebritton]

Yes we know your a bit Anal CP but you always were  ;D

Great thread so far lads (Andy + CP) now let's hope it stays this way nice reading......YF go and peel about 16 onions and get ready for a big Curry fest   
Layne 

[Chilli Prawn]

Andy, this is an old chestnut on the Forum.  What Spinach do you use and how to you pre-prepare it please.  We use frozen chpped Spinach which we blast in the Microwave, press/drain all the water out, and store in the fridge.  Some curry houses I know use tinned spinach puree or make their own puree.

Thanks CP

[andy2295]

CP,

Hi, we use TRS tinned spinach which is used straight from the tin

Regards

Andy

[Chilli Prawn]

Ta Andy.  Another question: do you make Saag Gosht (my favorite)?