Topic: Boiling onions method / base sauce.... your thoughts please

[spadge]

I've tried several methods of boiling just onions to start the base but this one seems to be about my best yet.... It was just a passing thought that maybe it would be a good idea to keep draining the water off. in 45 minute stages or so....Tried this adding a touch of salt on each re-start and the results were quite noticeable (less harsh and much more appealing) Not heard of this before or maybe I just don't read /ask enough.
I did ask a customer of mine, who was Asian what her thoughts where but the whole idea of onions and water being boiled at all was almost out of the question and only oil should be used........ mmmm? tried that many times and I think I'll continue the way I was until the advice in general suggests otherwise.  Once the onions have gone clear, only then adding the oil with a view to caramelize.
Anyone else tried this?

[Sverige]

I think there are two very different ways of cooking curries which you're touching on in your post above. Traditional Indian home cooking uses onions fried in oil and caramelised to some degree and works well for small portion numbers with a cooking time that's just way too long for a restaurant to consider. BIR cooking, which is an assembly line approach where the bulk of the cooking is done ahead of time and the final dishes can be knocked out in under ten mins, uses a boiled onion sauce.

It's no surprise your typical Asian home cook doesn't know anything about BIR method - much as we might think they are all experts on how restaurants cook it's pretty understandable that in the typical Indian / Pakistani home they're cooking traditional recipes and have no need for boiling onions to make base sauce.

On your point about decanting your onions and refreshing the water to make a milder end result, I think you're missing the point. If you have harsh flavours in your base gravy you're simply not boiling the onions long enough / hard enough. Pouring the flavour away to water it down with new water is just wasteful and masking the true problem imho.

[Secret Santa]

...I think you're missing the point. If you have harsh flavours in your base gravy you're simply not boiling the onions long enough / hard enough. Pouring the flavour away to water it down with new water is just wasteful and masking the true problem imho.

Absolutely right.

[spadge]

Thanks for the comments all.
I've boiled the onions for up to five hours on the stove and even slow cooked overnight and into  the next day until they turn an even golden brown. I pretty much turn these the same colour but it tastes a whole load better to me with less aftertaste. I must have made literally hundreds of 'OK' bulk batches in the past but maybe I've stumbled upon a taste that suits me? Read some years ago about skimming the bitterness off the top so I guess this is just taking it a step further/or perhaps too far?
Either way, I appreciate your feedback and thoughts.

[Geezah]

A take away / restaurant wants the simplist, cheapest option to maximise proffit, so why would they over complicate a procedure of making a gravy?

I reckon you havn't got the frying off quite right or something else in your process rather than blame it on the base production, after all, the base is really just like using a stock to make a gravy.  (Base to make a curry)

[chewytikka]

Crikey, You obviously don

[Sverige]

Bit harsh Chewy - the guy's just asking for thoughts on some ideas. If folks are criticised for discussing curry cooking on this site what will we end up with? , "Quail Eggs Weekly"??  I think we should welcome and encourage the debates on curry cooking as they are certainly in short supply these days.

 Spadge, ignore my previous answer as for sure you're not undercooking your onions, quite the opposite. There is no reason you should boil them till they're brown. Falling apart or "melting" is the normal description. The 90 mins hard boil Chewy mentioned should do it. My suggestion of cooking longer was because many seem to have been misled by a long since departed self-styled guru who insisted for years all you needed was a "low simmer for an hour" when cooking onions in base gravy. 

The harsh flavour you're suffering with, could it be the spices I wonder? You know base isn't meant to taste like a finished curry or to taste sweet on its own, so it's never going to taste great compared to a curry made by frying onions.

The only other tip I could suggest is to remember that on a home hob the final dish will take longer to cook than you see in videos from restaurants, who have high btu burners which manage to achieve the deceptive trick of supplying a lot of heat without too much temperature (sounds impossible I know). At home, it seems to me, we have to cook longer to get the spices in the final curry cooked out because the limited heat of a domestic stove causes the pan temperatures to dip quicker and longer when those ladles of base sauce are added.

Good luck, I'm sure you will find the result you're looking for.

[spadge]

Thanks Sverige, some interesting points...... Super explanation and one I'll take on board....  I'll be knocking out 'Scooby snacks' in far less time! :

[Secret Santa]

Spadge, ignore my previous answer as for sure you're not undercooking your onions, quite the opposite. There is no reason you should boil them till they're brown. Falling apart or "melting" is the normal description. The 90 mins hard boil Chewy mentioned should do it.

You can't put a specific time on the boiling of onions, so anyone who does doesn't understand the process.

There are two main things you are trying to achieve by boiling the onions. First you want them to be really soft so that they blend well and leave as little solid matter as possible. Second they need to be boiled until the natural sweetness is brought out. For savoury curries, such as madras, there should be no need to add extra sweetner such as sugar because the base sweetness will, if cooked properly, be enough.

The factors that influence those two goals are how fast you boil the onions (continuous simmer or rapid boil), water chemistry (mainly the pH of the water) and, directly related to the pH, what else you add while they're boiling. Tomatoes for example will make the mix more acidic and generally increase the time needed to produce the natural sweetness. Also the type of onion used and the degree to which you chop (or not) the onions will affect the time taken.

For my local conditions, at a low level continuous boil and little else other than the chopped in half onions and water it takes no less than 2 1/2 hours and usually about 3 to achieve the required degree of softness and sweetness.

[spadge]

The variety of onion I'm using at the moment is the English grown 'Setton' ( Allium cepa ) which is described as having ... good strong flavour.
Years ago I think the general advice called for a Dutch variety but not exactly sure which type. Maybe the Setton could be a little too strong?