Topic: Pans - what do we know about them

[JerryM]

i've used a black steel pan since parker21 recommended (along with a camping stove) some time ago. i'm not looking to change.

out of curiosity i'd always wrestled with the aluminum version and recently had chance to try out.

it was disaster. i nearly ruined the ali pan. thankfully the owner was calm and a real good clean put it almost right.

not just the pan nearly ruined but i found it impossible to use. the base was well sticking to the rim and my spoon action felt a real drag. i guess in short the heat was too much. it dawned on me that i get a very different result just from the type of pan.

i also have a need to cook on my domestic hob to try out dish variants. i've tried to use the zaal omelet pan and a wok - both without success. they both seem to burn the surface as opposed to caremelise.

recently have purchased cast iron balti dishes (one to do the garlic tarka like in the nottingham video and the other to serve balti in just like the adil). surprisingly these very heavy bowls work very well. i know in the past that i've poo pooed cooking balti in a balti dish and still stick to that purely on the likelihood of burning your hands on the handles. they do do the business in terms of product.

the question is does anyone know of any reading on the science of pans so to speak or have any ideas why some work and others don't.

the thought being that if i know more i might just be able to get a tad more mileage out of what i do already.

[london]

I find that when using an ali pan that you need to use a lot less heat as they're a very good conductor of heat, re the spoon action try using the bottom of it rather than the side, hope this helps.

[rshome123]

Hi Jerry, my Ali pan is very well, don't worry.

Here's my understanding...

Aluminium, as we know is a faster conductor of heat compared with iron/steel. This means that you don't have to have the gas flame on as high a setting of course.  Quick cooking /lower flame/light pan = good idea for take aways/restaurants.

Additionally, I think another important benefit of aluminium pans is that the temperature can be adjusted quickly... E.g. If you're about to burn spices, simply take the pan off the flame, and you should be ok.  With a iron/steel, or indeed heavy bottomed copper pan, the heat takes a lot longer to dissipate, so you have much less control.  Think of when you make that garlic tarka in your iron korai... Turn off the flame when it's hot and the contents will still keep cooking for a considerable time... I.e. You wouldn't want to leave the garlic in resting.

On reflection, I feel you would equally good results using an Ali pan, but turn your burner down considerably from the usual nuclear meltdown setting that we cooked on in your garage. You'd save a little money on gas too.

Another advantage is that you could use the Ali pan on your domestic kitchen gas hob without smoking the room out too much... Obviously extractor fan / window needed.

Just my two penny's worth. 

[JerryM]

london, rsholme123,

interesting thoughts which help in part but i still don't feel we have a full handle on it.

the zaal omlette pan and wok are thin steel and very light (they don't rust). they do a brilliant job at their jobs (garlic dish and biryani rice). try cooking curry in them and they are rubbish.

the balti dishes are heavy cast iron but don't rust. the black steel pan is heavy ish but does rust. they seem to have a similar thickness of metal.

a lot of BIR use the ali pan. clearly it works.

what causes a pan to work or not - i think in short that's what i'm aiming for (the idea being then to exploit it).

the spoon action is something i cant answer and i think must depend on the burner set up you have. i only use the flat of the spoon early on with the oil, garlic, puree in the belief that this action puts more flavour into the oil. after that all of my cooking action is on the side of the spoon initially to get the puree/spice off the bottom of the pan once the base has gone in and then to keep the rim or edge of the pan clean as the curry condenses. the reasoning being my stove has little heat underside but wraps around the pan delivering at a guess 75% heat to the sides.

this does not seem to suit the ali pan which only seems to want heat underneath as keeping the rim clean is near impossible.

then you get to the big question - would i get the same result if i turned the heat down. it's a clear No for me. there are 3 areas that i can see of which 1 & 2 i can't understand how much they contribute. i do know turning the heat down switches 1 & 2 off.

1) the flame meeting the oil around the rim
2) the oil smoking inside the curry mixture
3) caremlisation around the rim

i still feel we don't understand the whole picture. hence my need to go a bit deeper on what happens when you cook a curry.

[mambo]

Jerry

Maillard reaction?

[JerryM]

mambo,

not come across but will read up on it. many thanks.

the more i think about this the harder it gets - which suggests there is perhaps no mileage in it.

a bit of background to the post may help then my thoughts so anyone can then put me right where i'm not quite there.

background:

i've been on search for best BIR for some time and had pretty much given up. yes i've made a few tweaks and feel some small improvement but not the break through. i had decided to await h4ppy-chris book as i have interest in expanding recipes i know and you never know there might be something that help's my search.

the resent tasting of a 2nd BIR base knocked my blinkers sideways. a simple albiet well balanced and crafted base produces top notch BIR. what it says to me is perhaps i've not looked at the right areas.

what drives this search is that i know that BIR food from the same establishment varies with the chef. when No1 is cooking it's top notch food when the 2nd chef is in it's good but a league down.

the question comes what does this No1 chef do to make the difference - all the inputs are the same except what he does.

Pans:

a flame has the same temp (in simple terms ie domestic hob, candle etc). if the metal is too thin then the inside temp will be almost the outside temp. a flame temp burns base.

caremelisation must have a big bearing on the BIR taste. just look how long sam leaves his base in ali pan before stirring (in a black steel pan my spoon never stops cleaning the rim) some materials must have a rougher surface (not that you can see) which makes caremilisation a doddle (or allows it to happen and not burn).

the temp of the base can only be 100C as steam evaporates at this point. so there is a different temp of the base on the surfaces in contact with the pan.

increasing the temp above the caremelisation temp (i don't know what this is - and perhaps what i need to find) gets to a point when the pan will flame. at this point oil in the pan is converted to smoke and escapes through craters in the base.

the only thing i'm not sure on is what effect the flame meeting the oil around the rim has. i think very little.

in short i'm thinking of cooking upto end of spice on low heat and then high heat but turning down to level out the heat at the point the pan flames. currently i run on high heat all through using the Chinese philosophy of quickening ingredient additions to stop the heat running away.

[london]

Mate,
I think you're over thinking things, find what works for you and use that don't worry about things that don't need worrying about, some Chinese chefs use wok burners that could power a hot air balloon but it don't mean you can't cook a decent Chinese meal at home using less heat. 

[JerryM]

London,

I am ok. I just like to keep my blinkers off if I can

Mambo,

Sir thankyou. I know of the maillard from adovada but had not made the connection. Found this site which does it for me. Got all I need to work on it

Many thanks

http://modernistcuisine.com/2013/03/the-maillard-reaction/