Topic: Copying a Bir, some points.

[DARTHPHALL]

After reading several comments i will try & put some good points down in this new thread.
If you strongly disagree feel free to post your alternative method/ingredients & reasons.
All these points are from many members here on the forum.

1. Oil is necessary to gain the Bir style.

2. Do not overSpice.  A:Try not to use too many different Spices in a single Recipe.
                                  B: Try not to add too much quantity of Spice in your recipe.

3. If your going to achieve the Bir "Taste", "Smell" you should know on the day of cooking if you have succeeded or not.

4. Judging by comments & my own perceptions Tomato puree/Ketchup & Tin tomato's may be used but in less quantities than many recipes give you (including my own).

5. there is a general concensus that it is method rather than a particular Ingredient that produces the Bir "Taste" & or "Smell".

Thats for starters, hope my assumptions are correct, if you have any other basic rules you think we need to add just post away, as the site is big & a general rule/tips thread would be of help to us all.

[laynebritton]

Darth I think you've pretty much Nailed it there my old Mukka  ;D

The only things I would add are =

1. Buy Small Bags of Spices Often (100g)

2. Always Dry Roast and Grind Your Own Garam Massala.

3. Always Use Fresh Ingredients.

4. Never Follow Recipes Down To The Last Gram Experiment Until YOU Are Happy.

5. If You Make A Balls Up of Your Curry's Don't Bin em Send em To Me ;D ;D ;D

               Good Luck To Us All
  Layne

[Mark J]

Darth - 5 is a huge factor IMO

Layne - ditto 1, I recently threw out all my old spices (they were still in date but fresh is best)

How many people dust off that 3 year old jar of cumin and wonder why the recipe tastes so bland!

[Chilli Prawn]

I sent this out yesterday but Layne posted his and it didn't post for some reason so here it is.
Anyway I also agree whole heartedly on all the points made so far:

DP1 Use the best oil you can and get one that has a high flash point.  Don't re-use oil as some change their chemical structure and become carcionagenic.

DP2 Yes, keep things simple, and remember some spices do not react well with others, e.g. Cumin if overused will kill every flavour including ist own!  So stick to the ratios in the recipe until you are confident.

DP3, definitely; learn how to cook using your eyes and smell only, like Indian chefs do.  Tasting during cooking will not give you the correct indication of what the dish will be in its final stages and may tempt you to add more spices!

DP4 Yes, vey important. Tomatoes in their different forms do different things to the final flavour.  Use paste sparingly during the flash frying stage only; it gives the depth and sweetness to the final result.  Use tinned or fresh in the latter stages as this will produce a fresher taste and also will 'crack' the spices to release their final flavours.

DP5  Yes definitely, I think I am consistent on this.  You need high (flash), medium, and low (Dum) heats at various stages to fuse and release the spice's flavours.  BIRs use high heat to cook and then put the dish under low heat (servery) for about 10 minutes to finish off.

LB 1-5 Definitely.  I would just add; store your spices in a cool dark place (not the fridge!).  Spend time on learning the skills of pan and oven roasting, it will pay dividends; and always roast spices separately.

CP 1 Write down what you do, when you do it, and what ingredient(s) and their weights that you use.  Then you can go back and review your successes or disasters.  If you are like me and like a glass of beer or two while you are cooking it is easy to forget what you have done.

CP 2 Make sure any you send to Layne are clearly marked and well packed!  ;D

CP

[Curry King]

I sent this out yesterday but Layne posted his and it didn't post for some reason so here it is.
Anyway I also agree whole heartedly on all the points made so far:

DP1 Use the best oil you can and get one that has a high flash point.  Don't re-use oil as some change their chemical structure and become carcionagenic.

This is not correct though when talking about BIR cooking.  We know from a number of first hand reports that a lot of BIR's reuse the oil and not just from the base.  Some also reuse the curry oil and deep fat frying oil.  Another point is that the majority of BIR's will not use decent expensive oil, they will use the cheap as you can get veg or sunflower oil by the drum. 

It maybe the case for more upmarket restaurants but for the run of the mill BIR everything is reused and done on the cheap.

cK

[Chilli Prawn]

I agree CK, but that doesn't make it OK.  I was just trying to get a reference point and lob in some quality and Health & Safety points at the same time  :  I suppose there would be no harm using oil from the base as it is not heated to a very high heat.  I sometimes skim oil off and reuse it but only if I know I haven't exceeded its limits.  I only use it for the same dishes though!

Sorry, I keep forgetting this mission is to find the ultimate BIR secrets even if they kill you!  ;D ;D ;D ;D :-[

Keep on truckin'

CP

[DARTHPHALL]

Thanks everyone so far for getting more points in, we need more i forgot most of them 

[Curry King]

Yeah the problem is if you want to recreate BIR curry at home you have to do as they do to a certain extent.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong or that you cannot produce a nice curry in other ways but this thread is about copying BIR's not a debate on wether their cooking methods are up to standard.

To be honest I'm not one for reusing oil and I have been told by one chef that the he NEVER reused oil as it goes against health and safety regulations.  This is not general practice though as already said a number of members have experienced reusing oil first hand.

[Woks Up]

1. Oil is necessary to gain the Bir style.

What???   Of course oil is necessary!  And plenty of it!  Cheap stuff too!  Is there REALLY any debate on this!??? 

2. Do not overSpice.  A:Try not to use too many different Spices in a single Recipe.
                                  B: Try not to add too much quantity of Spice in your recipe.

Hmmm...perhaps?

3. If your going to achieve the Bir "Taste", "Smell" you should know on the day of cooking if you have succeeded or not.

Of course!  It's obvious!  100% agree!....as YF recently pointed out 

4. Judging by comments & my own perceptions Tomato puree/Ketchup & Tin tomato's may be used but in less quantities than many recipes give you (including my own).

copious amounts of tinned tomatoes produces bitterness...not nice!  Judicious use of puree or passata is much better...in my humble opinion...

5. there is a general concensus that it is method rather than a particular Ingredient that produces the Bir "Taste" & or "Smell".

I disagree that there is a "general concensus" here Darth!  Whereas I believe there is no one single "secret" ingredient, I firmly believe (and I think it is totally illogical to think otherwise!) that it is a combination of ingredients AND techniques that produces "that taste" and "that smell"...and, for that matter, "that appearance"!.  Pursuing "technique" without correct "ingredients" (and vice versa) is clearly going to be a fruitless task!  :

[Woks Up]

1. Buy Small Bags of Spices Often (100g)

Ahhh...Layne...it cleary depends on how quickly you use them!  Granted, the tunrover of BIRs is probably fast.....and their spices are probably also reasonalbly fresh.  But, stored corrrectly (i.e. in airtight containers, out of the damp, out of sunlight), they will last for several months (powders) and longer (whole spices)

2. Always Dry Roast and Grind Your Own Garam Massala.

I disagree!  Do BIRs actually use garam masala???  If they do, do they make it themselves? I seriously doubt it! 

3. Always Use Fresh Ingredients.

Sorry Layne, no way!  BIRs will not use ONLY fresh ingredients!  I am sure they will use commercially prepared ingredients......such as commercial garlic and ginger purees and commercial curry powers and pastes, etc, etc!