Topic: Chicken jalfrezi vs Ex hot chicken vindaloo

[fried]

Cheers Rob.

I've always cooked my chicken from raw, just so I can understand where the spicing is coming from, but I'm going to have a go at the pre-cook at Christmas. I have 12 people to do curry for on Boxing day, plenty of time to prepare, plenty of 'sous-chefs' and plenty of wine. Thanks again for all the info.

[mickdabass]

Really interesting thread and videos Rob - many thanks

[Kashmiri Bob]

Goncalo has done some remarkable camera work.  It's almost like your're looking down the chef's spoon into the pan on some of them.    I've watched the pathia vid a couple of times and made my best one to date. 

A word of caution on the bagar (in the context of frying spices in G/G paste).  It is very easy to get wrong.  Too little heat/or for not long enough, and the flavours/aromatic oils from the spices wont be released.  Too much heat/or for too long, and things will start burning.  I messed it up several times to start with.  Indeed on one occasion where the oil was too hot, the G/G burned, instantly (as soon as it hit the oil).  Check the Viceroy vid where Chef Imran lifts the pan off the heat briefly, as it's getting too hot. In the end I resorted to adding the G/G paste to cold oil, and then heating it up, so at least I could get an idea of what was happening. 

Got the hang of it eventually. But do remember what you are actually doing here.  Adding things to HOT oil. Particular the G/G paste and tomato (puree or blended plum).  These are aqueous and will spit like mad when added to the hot oil.  Advice wearing a glove for protection, and keep your face well away form the pan.  When chef does this on a commercial scale he often adds things at arms length, with a long chef's spoon (as in the vids) and has a lid in his other hand to stick on the pan, quickly.  Basically, take precautions, and be careful.

If anything does burn you obviously need to start again.  Don't be tempted to use the "bagar" if there is any doubt, e.g. you think, OK, maybe I just caught it before it burned?  You will end up trashing your chicken or, if the bagar is destined for base gravy, the entire batch will be ruined.  I have managed to do this.  I think the easiest way around this is to start with pre-cooked potato.  Not such an issue if a few spuds end up in the bin. 

I've got some pics somewhere of me prepping pre-cooked potatoes and will at some point put together a recipe for this, and my take on Bombay aloo.  It's not my recipe really.  Based around Moike's pre-cook and Mick's (CBM) Bombay recipe (the lemon juice in Mick's recipe is a winner; sometimes I chuck a couple of curry leaves in.  Pictured here; this thread also includes a few pics of, I think, my first attempt at Moike's pre-cooks, chicken, lamb, and potato, for anyone interested.

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11955.0.html


Here are some phone pics I took in the TA:


Chicken










Lamb




Potato




I should add that there is not really anything new here pre-cook wise.  Chewy has posted somewhere some pics of pre-cooked chicken that look very similar. There are also plenty other ways/approaches on the forum (with proper recipes).  Also, the "bagar" will probably not change your life.    It's just where I'm up to at the moment, but I am liking it, and it is very BIR.  To chuck a spanner in the works, I've been trying out some dishes using fresh chicken recently.  Hmm. Counter-intuitively, perhaps, it seems fresh chicken is actually the short-cut?  I'll be sticking with pre-cooked, whenever possible.

Rob 

[Garp]

Excuse my ignorance, Bob. But when you talk of the 'bagar', i.e. frying of spices to release oil and flavour, I assume you are talking about whole spices. I can't see much oil being released from ground/dried spices.

I don't see any of that in your vids with Moike.

[Peripatetic Phil]

Excuse my ignorance, Bob. But when you talk of the 'bagar', i.e. frying of spices to release oil and flavour, I assume you are talking about whole spices. I can't see much oil being released from ground/dried spices.

The oils are not lost when spices are ground, Garp, although once ground those oils will evaporate with time, which is why spices age so badly and why it is essential to keep them in an airtight container when ground. Whether or not this particular bagar uses whole or ground spices I do not know, but the technique of frying spices in oil to as to release the essential oils from the spices and into the sauce is a basic technique.

** Phil.

[Kashmiri Bob]

Not entirely sure garp.  I'm no expert myself.  Be interested to hear what others think. I have thought that powdered spices release there flavours/aromatics (oils) more easily than whole spices, based on the larger surface area of the former in contact with the hot oil?  This would partly explain why the whole spices are fried first?  There is some short footage of Moike on the "bagar".  But, I'm embarrassed to show it.  The good lady decided to hide/tidy up my specially bought in Tower tomato puree tin at a crucial time, and you can hear me panicking like a good 'un.  ;D  I suppose I will post it, as it shows chef quenching the fry as he's happy with it (at that point with no bloomin' tomato puree!).  Why can't the girls just leave things alone in the kitchen, and let the blokes do what they do best?  Cook.  ;D

Rob 

[Garp]

Lmao Bob. I'd quite like to see the footage of the missus going berserk at the mess you guys made.

Phil - I disagree. Though, like Bob, I'm no expert.

I would have thought that, during the process of making powdered  spices, all the moisture (oil and water) would have been removed from the spices.

As for evaporation of oil? I'm not sure about that one mate. But, as always, I'm willing to be educated.

For me, a 'basic technique' is about understanding why you are doing something and question it - not just do it because everyone else is doing it

[Peripatetic Phil]

Phil - I disagree. Though, like Bob, I'm no expert.

I would have thought that, during the process of making powdered  spices, all the moisture (oil and water) would have been removed from the spices.

If that were the case, ground spices would have no flavour at all (or virtually none); the essential oils are the flavour carriers, and without them there is no flavour worth speaking of.

For me, a 'basic technique' is about understanding why you are doing something and question it - not just do it because everyone else is doing it

Well, most members of CR0 seem to accept that spices can release their flavours only into oil (a little will leach out into pure water, but only a tiny amount compared to the amount they will release into oil), and that process is accelerated when the oil and spices are heated together.  If heated at a sufficiently high temperature for sufficiently long (the two are inversely related). the flavour will actually change, and most feel that this change is an improvement (i.e., the final curry tastes better as a result).  I therefore believe that "cooking" the spices in oil, or in an oil-rich aqueous medium, is a basic technique which is well understood by most here.

** Phil.

[Kashmiri Bob]

Just to clarify.  Both whole and powdered spices were used for all the pre-cooks, and for the chicken pretty much in line with the Viceroy vid/recipe.

Rob   

[Garp]

Show me the science Phil, not hearsay or inbred beliefs.

Next you'll be telling me there is a big guy in the sky who created the universe in seven days