Topic: Off-topic replies

[DalPuri]

What's not offensive? The word or a white guy repeating it back?

[Gav Iscon]

What's not offensive? The word or a white guy repeating it back?

Neither.

[DalPuri]

What about adding an accent to it? Does it then become offensive?

[Gav Iscon]

Wouldn't in my eyes and I wouldn't say I add an accent to it. (apart from geordie) i would just say ga ra bi. Bit like saying coq au vin which would come out 'cock o van'

[DalPuri]

Ok, so in that case I could string a whole sentence together, something along the lines, " vots that jew got in that pot, mite?" And as long as I say it with an English accent, then its perfectly acceptable.   

[Onions]

What about adding an accent to it? Does it then become offensive?

Who mentioned accents? Why is that relevant? Like, the (English!) word curry isn't offensive, right: But if I go around saying 'cooray because I'm from Doodlay', then yeah, like every other word in the lingo it could be offensive.

[Peripatetic Phil]

What about adding an accent to it? Does it then become offensive?

When I go to France, if someone asks my (Christian) name, I don't say "Je m'appelle Philip", I say "Je m'appelle Philippe ("PHEELEEP"); and I say it in the best French accent that I can manage.  And I do so /to show respect/ for the people to whom I am speaking, because for them "Philip" is an difficult sound to make -- there is no short "i" in French.  So if I know that a Bengali speaker would have trouble saying "gravy", then am I not also showing respect if I pronounce "gravy" as "garabi" when I speak to him or her ?  And if I am, then why might I be thought to be mocking his/her pronunciation if I were then to use the same form when talking to English friends ?  Mockery and respect have nothing to do with language or pronunciation, and everything to do with attitude of mind. 

** Phil.

[livo]

I thought we were discussing the origins, definition and use of the word. How and when did we get to it being offensive or not? 

Funny thing is that out here there is a real expression of amusement shown on the faces of the Indian shop proprietors when I go in and start asking for things which I then need to repeat several times along with hand gestures and explanation of the uses it is to perform, so they understand what I want.  Silly white man.  Trying to explain to one young guy that I wanted to buy a Tawa, I eventually had to tell him I wanted a plain steel chapatti pan.  "Oh" he says. "You mean a Tarva."  Not offensive to me or him.  Not surprisingly though, the label clearly says "Tawa".  The guy is near wetting himself asking me if I cook my own curries and shows absolute astonishment when I confirm this.  I don't think he believed me till I showed him some photos on my phone.  He knows me now and we have a good laugh.

[DalPuri]

Give up phil.
If you was talking to a Bengali, then he/she will know exactly what you mean by gravy. And is that the only word in the whole sentence that you're going to change?  And are you going to speak with a Bengali accent as well? Come on.  :

p.s. I hate being called Fronk! 

[Peripatetic Phil]

Give up phil.
If you were talking to a Bengali, then he/she will know exactly what you mean by gravy.

It's not the "knowing"; it's the "being able to replicate".  Of course he/she will know what "gravy" means, if we are discussing BIR food as opposed to roast beef; but if I insist on pronouncing it "gravy" when I know that he/she is going to have difficulty with replicating that pronunciation, then I am indeed in danger of giving offence, because I am tacitly saying "listen to me, I can say the word properly", whereas if I adapt to his/her pronunciation then I am trying to ease the conversation and make it easier for both of us.

And is that the only word in the whole sentence that you're going to change?  And are you going to speak with a Bengali accent as well? Come on.  :

I can't speak with a Bengali accent because I am not sufficiently familiar with the language; but when (for example) I order "two chapati", I do my best to bring the sound as close as I can to to the sound that I know the waiter will make when he repeats my order, and I avoid the English plural "s" because I know that Bengali plurals are not formed that way.  It's no different (to my mind) to trying to get the tones right when ordering dim sum in a Chinese restaurant; it shows respect to my hosts, whose language it is that I am trying to speak.  OK, "garabi" is not a native Bengali word, but the English word "gravy" has been adopted by Bengali speakers and adapted to make it better fit Bengali phonological patterns, just as we have adopted thousands (literally) of words from the sub-continent and adapted them to better conform to English phonology (tiffin, veranda, bungalow, kedgeree, dungarees, gymkhana, pyjamas, coolie, chutney, bazaar, thug, chokey, amok,  loot, ...) [see "Hobson Jobson" for thousands more].

p.s. I hate being called Fronk! 

Spell your name with an "i" ("Frinc") and the French will happily call you "Frank"

** Phil.