Topic: How to achieve high cooking temperatures at home.

[goncalo]

DalPuri educating the curry-recipes community since October 27, 2011, 01:00:16 AM.

That was a very good read DP!

I think you'll be alone with that view Goncalo  ;D
But thanks anyway. 

In fairness, you keep "spamming" us with good content, be it videos or links, so I'm sure I'm not alone ;-)

[JerryM]

goncalo's pic of the welding got me thinking that further detail may help understanding better.

i see 3 stages of cooking a curry: oil, spice and evap. the end point of oil and spice stages taste exactly the same for me on my domestic hob and the high heat stove ie no high heat is needed in fact it's very easy to burn things during this part of the cooking.

the high heat for me is in the 3rd stage of evaporation. there are the 2 tastes that can be produced: a plain hot fry or the smokey hot fry.

i've never really been able to work out the why (it works). i think it is something to do with the internal surface temperature of the pan particularly around the rim. theory says that with so much water "thin base" about the contents of the pan can never exceed 100C (because the water is being converted into steam and all the heat is consumed doing this). gut feeling says that the surface temp on the high high is a lot higher than 100C - it's hot enough to combust oil whatever that value is. this very high temp changes the taste somehow of the water/oil/onion combination. i don't think the spices have anything to do with the taste difference.

it's not just at home where i've experienced this difference. at my local TA you can tell when the chef is working and when his stand in is there - even in a BIR the difference is stark.

my pan base is 7.5 inch. i think if you had a 2.5" pan you could achieve the same effect on a domestic hob. a guess a teaspoon would be the equivalent of a chef spoon.

i will try and take some temp reading this weekend.

[JerryM]

i cooked 3 off kashmiri and 1 off butter chicken last night ie cream dishes.

the temp was pretty consistent:

underneath the stove with pan on: 300 to 340C
Pan rim outside: 200-220C
Pan rim inside: 185C
Pan base inside 126C

i googled propane gas flame temp and seems quite incredible at 2000C. 

the temp i can relate to is the pan rim inside at 185C - my chip fryer cooks at 190C

[Gav Iscon]

i googled propane gas flame temp and seems quite incredible at 2000C. 

Jogging my memory, that's at the tip and is also a maximum. The heat is then dissipated into what its heating ie the pan. Bearing in mind that aluminium has a melting point of 660

[Secret Santa]

i googled propane gas flame temp and seems quite incredible at 2000C.

That's what's known as the adiabatic temperature Jerry. It represents a purely theoretical maximum that's unachievable in any practical situation.

On our hobs or wok burners the pan generally sits well above the actual hottest part of the flame so the temperature at the pan surface is considerably less. As Gav Iscon pointed out, your pan would be a puddle of aluminium if this were not the case.

[Gav Iscon]

...... adiabatic .......

That's the word I was looking for.

[JerryM]

it really is very typical of this forum - to focus in on what's not important.

stuff the temp of the flame. what's important is the pan rim temp inside at 185C. i probably get a tad more sometimes say a max of 220C.

what this is saying is that if your pan rim temp is anything like (irrespective of your Kw) then you will see the same effect as i do.

for those who don't believe in the high heat let's have your temp's on the table so to speak. i'm well happy to try out a lower rim temp.

for additional info - i know my domestic 3kw hob has rocket heat. i use the serious eats 2 stage method of cooking steak. the final stage being rocket heat. yesterday i was cooking bacon and took a few readings - the pan easily gets to 200C and a saw a max of 260C.

this is the rub though - i always delgaze if not to use but to ease the washing up. take a temp reading - you won't see anything like 200C - the penny might just start to drop of the stark difference that we are trying to explore.

i also really can't understand why we are still procrastinating over this - yesterday i was searching for recipe (dopiaza - had really good one at restaurant in the week) and watched quite a few BIR video. none are cooking on domestic heat.

[goncalo]

Thanks for continuing the pursuit JerryM!

I have one question, how are you getting these measurements? If I can replicate them, I would like to give it a try.

[JR]

Hi Jerry, i'm new to this site, but totally agree you need that seathing heat at certain stages. when reducing just added cold base the pan temp drops and i beleive it stews ratter than fries, hence the lack of richness in flavour, we're only talking a taste loss of possibly 10%, but i believe that is the difference. Rgds John.

[Secret Santa]

it really is very typical of this forum - to focus in on what's not important.

stuff the temp of the flame.

Now, now Jerry. It was you who brought it up!  :

for those who don't believe in the high heat let's have your temp's on the table so to speak. I'm well happy to try out a lower rim temp.

No real need to do that Jerry. I can flame a pan on a 1kW burner by using a small pan and small quantities of liquid. I don't need to do that though because I have a 4.5kW burner and can flame any BIR style pan. And it makes no substantial difference to the taste.

I've stated before that if I cook in exactly the same manner as a BIR I rapidly attain an overly thick sauce. To counter this I either cook at a lower heat or, because I prefer to cook at full heat throughout, I usually water the base down to compensate.

I believe you are wrong in saying that a huge burner is required to achieve BIR and I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that. What I will say though is that your adding of cold, unheated base to your pan makes a mockery of your claims for needing high heat. Or is it for exactly that reason that you need high heat.

I suppose, in conclusion, what I'm saying is that the BIR flavour has little to do with huge burner power levels. It's a combination of ingredients and techniques and the flaming of the pan or constant high heat is not, per se, the BIR secret.