Topic: "To Fry or Not to Fry?"; This is the Question!

[Ashes]

Hi Cory, the point i noticed was referring to the way the chefs adapt each batch of curry base depending on the onions. Sometimes they add ketchup if the onions arent sweet enough or tamerind to give a slightly more sour taste to tone down the sweetness.
"at the end he told me making a gravy is a like any thing else in  cooking you have to taste and adjust ingredients from batch to batch"


Also i noticed something of interest;
"do you fry garlic and ginger in the beginning of making the gravy or you add it at the end ?...
one of the chefs that i employed was doing it in the beginning and another one was adding it at the end with the oil   ....it depend on which chef."

I would imagine some boil and others fry their onions, exactly like we do here at cr0. I like to fry the onions first for baltis but with something like the KD base (boiled) it tastes far superior once its been frozen 24 hrs or more.

Ive noticed in some trad recipes they tend to fry the onions on a very low heat for up to 20 minutes, if youve ever tasted a hotdog onions that are left hanging around on the griddle youll remember they are also very sweet. I think its to do with the starch turning to sugars?? (not sure). I know sugar turns to alcohol

The important thing to remember is pureed onions will always be bitter if they are not cooked first. With boiled and then pureed onions you will always have to add oil later to create that sweetness.. effectively frying the onions in puree form. I suppose frying the onions briefly beforehand is creating the sweetness at the start instead of the end.

You can always peel the onions and leave them in iced water this will remove alot of the bitterness and is great for salads.

[Cory Ander]

Thanks for your responses guys.  As far as I can deduce, this is what people are saying about how to cook the onions for the curry base:

Those that boil the onions (2/7):

Stew? but doesn't say why.  Believes that adding bicarbonate of soda breaks them down quicker and reduces acidity (and bitterness?)

George? believes that a long boil is required for "the flavour of" long-boiled onions?

Those that fry the onions (2/7):

Mike (presumably?) - believes frying them for longer makes them sweeter

CurryCanuck? but doesn't say why.  Believes that adding salt "will help draw" the moisture out? and that low heat is required to avoid bitterness

Those that fry and then boil the onions (1/7):

Dragon - fries (sweats) them, and then boils them, but doesn't say why

Others (2/7):

MarkJ - doesn't say, but believes frying at high temperatures makes them bitter

Ashes  - uses both methods, depending on the circumstances, but doesn't say why.  Believes that frying, on low heat, makes them sweeter.  Seems to believe that boiled onions will not be sweet unless oil is subsequently added?

Conclusions:

• Some people boil the onions, some fry them and some fry then boil them (approximately in equal measures)
• Frying onions on a low heat, for longer, makes them sweeter (there seems to be consensus here at least?)
• Boiling onions, for longer, makes them sweeter (?) and develops the boiled onion flavour (but I am uncertain about this conclusion?)

Have I drawn the right conclusions?  Does boiling onions for longer make them sweeter?  Or does boiling them not sweeten them at all (as Ashes seems to suggest)? 

Does anyone else have any views on, what appears to me to be, a fundamental question of whether to boil or to fry the onions (or both) for the curry base and why?  Or maybe I am mistaken in thinking that this is a fundamental question?

[George]

Ashes, Cory and others

That's two excellent posts you've both made there. What an interesting subject! I doubt if boiling onions in water creates much sweetness but I may be wrong. The best suggestion would be to try it as a bit of R&D. Boil 2 or 3 onions in just enough water, for 1 or 2 hours, so they don't dry out. Gently fry another 2 or 3 onions in oil for as long as it takes for them to look like hot dog onions (not too burned). I know the latter result is delicious and sweet, but as an input to base sauce, I simply don't know which is best. There are so many other permutations and combinations, I've been experimenting with, that I haven't tried it.

I still favour MarkJ's base sauce and it tastes so damn good, that I don't see the need for much further work on base sauces. I also added a bit of coconut and general purpose seasoning to make it a bit more like Terry's base sauce. This variation is good, too.

Regards
George