Topic: Big Hello to all :)

[Todd]

Hi all!

I've been checking this site out for about a month now and thought it was time to get my fingers out of the pot of curry gravy and onto the keyboard to introduce myself and contribute my curry thoughts

First of all - Great site! I've been trying to re-create Indian restaurant curries, chinese and Thai food at home for years now. I think Chinese and Thai is pretty easily cracked with a few key ingredients, but the "BIR" curries are still a bit of an enigma! Ive been making great tasting curries for ages now, but "the taste" as you call it is really hard to re-create. A big thanks to all the contributers (especially the main bunch) who have already helped me get so much closer to cooking restaurant curries at home...

Up until discovering this site - My thoughts about BIRs:

I live in Evesham (small town in Worcestershire - population about 25,000). We have a LOT of BIRs... No fewer than 9 restaurant / takeaways! I don't think you could stand on any street corner in the small town centre without seeing an Indian somewhere...

Ive eaten from pretty much all of them at some stage (many have changed ownership / chefs quite a few times). The quality is vary varied to be honest. Many of them look great but are tasteless, some are sometimes good but really inconsistent, some of them were good when they opened but went crap after a month or two... However theres a couple of pretty decent ones that I tend to stay faithfull to. I think the most interesting thing is the diversity of the dishes from one BIR to another. A Jalfrezi dish from three different takaways can easily look, smell and taste quite different. I think this highlights how varied the chefs recipies can be from one place to another - im sure the recipies are similar, but there must be many variations on methods used for cooking base sauces and final dishes. Having said that I think we would all agree that there is a certain fragrance / taste that almost all BIR curries have in common. Thats why I think its great that you guys are talking about what we are trying to achieve as "the taste" - that unmistakeable flavour that all BIR curries seem to possess  (god i feel hungry now)

Another thing that I think is really important (and that you folks have disscussed on here) is not to get the "the taste" confused with the "restaurant smell". When I pick up a takeaway with a couple of chicken / lamb dishes, naan bread, perhaps a starter or poppadoms and rice... the smell that fills the car is DIVINE (so hungry now...  ) But I think that particular combination of smells can be quite decieving - and should not really be considered when trying to cook individual curries at home. Call me sad... but I actually like to take a sample of a couple of dishes away from the rest of the takeaway when i get home (maybe out of the kitchen into another room or the garden) to have a taste and smell in my attempts to deconstruct the taste of the curry on its own  :

Things I've observed before finding this site (probably nothing new here):

The base sauce - seen this in large pots in all restaurants, tends to vary in tomato / redness. Some are more golden looking, some look more like tomoto soup. My sister bought me the Kris Dhillon book a few years ago and I had varied success with the base sauce, but ultimately we know its not really "the curry secret" and the final dishes were far from BIR food.

Precooked chicken / lamb/ tikka meat - Just know they always seem to have this in food containers by the side of the stove where they cook the dishes - i.e. its never cooked from raw in the final dish...

Cooking with gas on a high heat in a shallow wok-like pan - They all seem to do this. The only time Ive really watched a BIR chef cook a dish from start to finish was a few years ago at a takeaway in Bath. All I can remember is that spices and precooked meat / veg were in the pan on a high heat for a few mins before adding the base sauce. The whole think took about 5-6 mins max. I wish I would have paid closer attention but the guy at the counter was looking at me a bit wierd 

Anyway, enough of my life story... lol

A couple of weeks a go I made a 10 onion base using the Mark J 10 onion recipie from here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,324.0.html and ive been making 1 or 2 curries a week with it since then. Maximum respect to Mark and the others who have grilled the chefs for their recipies and been in to watch them cook. Despite my previous efforts, this base alone was the closest thing Ive really got to the taste at home. I think perhaps I went a bit heavy on the fresh Corriander (the bunch was too big and the flavour cut through a bit too much - id think Id rather use more of it in the final dish) but other than that it seems pretty great. As others have commented, I thing the addition of peppers, celery and carrots to the base makes a big difference and its something I just would not have thought was the right thing to do. It really works though.

Its early days yet, but I think my final dishes still need a lot of work. My first one was delicious, but still it just wasnt quite BIR... It pretty much followed the recipie on that link above, but i didnt have fenugreek leaves (or ground Methi for that matter) and i probably messed the timing up. I also tried a milder dish using ground almonds & cream etc. This was actually pretty spot on, though I wasnt too exited cos like many on this site its the darker, more spicy dishes like bhuna / jalfrezi / madras that im really going for. The use of tomato ketchup is something I have tried before and it definitely adds a nice tangyness. Im convinced some BIRs do use this in their final dishes.

My most recent attept last weekend used the high heat / frying spices / water technique that mark talks about here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1066.0.html Its probably something I did wrong (possibly too many spices for the amount i was cooking) but there was a bitterness that cut through a little too much with this attempt. I also didnt use pre-cooked onions in the same way as before, as I didnt think there was really any point in this... but on second thoughts it may actually add an important flavour?

Ive also tried this recipie http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,874.0.html and cooked it on the BBQ on Sunday ;D It went down really well and is highly recomended. Dispite the lack of yoghurt it had a surprisingly Tikka like appearance and taste - the taramind in the Patak's mix really adds a unique flavour.

Anyway - must be going now. I think thats enough curry talk from me for one night!! I took pics of a few of these recent efforts so ill try to get them up here somewhere soon...

Thanks again to all

-Todd-

 

[George]

Todd

Welcome to the forum! What a great and very interesting first post! Can there ever have been a better first post?

Keep up the good work.

Regards
George

[Yousef]

Welcome Todd,

I second that...great post.
Looking forward to seeing your pictures.

The only time Ive really watched a BIR chef cook a dish from start to finish was a few years ago at a takeaway in Bath. All I can remember is that spices and precooked meat / veg were in the pan on a high heat for a few mins before adding the base sauce

For me what you have said here is the key, get your pan very very hot with oil in, throw in your spices (turmeric/corriander/cumin/chilli etc) and shake pan, then seriously just add a 3 or 4 spoons of water.....stand back and watch the spice cloud explode and fill your kitchen with the Takeaway smell, then add your meat/prawns etc and a tablespoon of thick tomato pasata and then spoon in a ladle or 2 of base sauce, bubble for 5 and your done......add corriander.......let it cool before tasting

Stew

[Graeme]

Hello,

Please take a breath :-)

Well done todd, i would find that text very
hard to beat.

graeme in newcastle.

[Mark J]

Hi Todd

Really interesting first post

My most recent attept last weekend used the high heat / frying spices / water technique that mark talks about here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1066.0.html Its probably something I did wrong (possibly too many spices for the amount i was cooking) but there was a bitterness that cut through a little too much with this attempt. I also didnt use pre-cooked onions in the same way as before, as I didnt think there was really any point in this... but on second thoughts it may actually add an important flavour?

Maybe burnt the spice/garlic/onion mixture? Its really easy to do which is why you need the tomatoe paste (I use a ketchup/pasata mix) and onions which control the heat in the oil some what to stop the spices burning, keep it all moving quickly as well. I add a little water if I think its getting close to burning but I really try to keep this stage going for 4-5 minutes as I believe its key to that smokey savoury garlicky taste

cheers

Mark

[Curry King]

Hi Todd,

Great post it's interesting to read other peoples tales of trying to recreate the elusive BIR curry at home,  I look forward to seeing the pictures.

[laynebritton]

Welcome Todd
Yes I agree with with earlier threads a great 1st post looking forward to your photo's .

Your comments to this forum looks like they are going to be very informative well done !

Layne 

[merrybaker]

Great post, Todd.  You're gonna love it here!

[CurryCanuck]

Nice post , welcome aboard . 

[Todd]

Thanks for all the replies!

I just tried to upload the pics on the images section, but it kept crashing internet explorer for some reason 

Anyway uploaded them elsewhere instead:

http://www.t3mastering.com/Images/curries.jpg - my first attempt at a bhuna and korma-ish dish.

http://www.t3mastering.com/Images/tikka.jpg blades tikka recipe on the BBQ!

Not the best pics, and sorry I don't have any of the individual cooking stages, but im usually in a bit of a frenzy whilst cooking - concentrating hard etc  so i don't think to take any pics...

Maybe burnt the spice/garlic/onion mixture? Its really easy to do which is why you need the tomato paste (I use a ketchup/pasata mix) and onions which control the heat in the oil some what to stop the spices burning, keep it all moving quickly as well. I add a little water if I think its getting close to burning but I really try to keep this stage going for 4-5 minutes as I believe its key to that smokey savoury garlicky taste.

You could be right there and I guess that would explain the bitterness. I actually cooked the same dish two times on that attempt, the second time I varied it slightly by adding extra spice and really cooking it on a high heat for a good 4-5 mins, but this one actually turned out worse than the first. I used a ketchup / tomato puree mix, but it would be worth trying pasata instead, as its much less concentrated and contains more water. On my first attempt i added half a ladle of base sauce at this stage and I felt that turned out better - I guess that would effectively have a similar function to the pasata / ketchup mix.

Theres also a possibility I'm not using enough oil. Or at least too high spice to oil ratio. I do try to back off on the oil for the final dish when theres so much in the base... but maybe I should just go all out... after all, BIR takeaways are still dripping with oil more than anything I cook at home.

Anyway, got a bunch of new spices from a good asian supermarket yesterday, including ground methi - it will be the first time ive tried that (had fenugreek seeds before but despite smelling nice they were rock hard and ended up like fine gravel in the end result...lol) Hopefully ill get some fresh corriander in too.

I'll let you know how I get on this weekend anyway