Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: merrybaker on May 31, 2006, 04:19 PM
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Anthony Bourdain visited India on his TV show this week, and the Maharana of Udaipur cooked him a goat curry. I use the word "cooked" advisedly, because standing in the background was the Maharana's chef who cut the meat, prepped the veggies, etc., so the Maharana could stir the food in the pan.
But the Maharana did say that, "Burning is very much a part of the flavor." I presume he heard that from his chef. I know we've all wondered if the flames are necessary, since restaurant chefs seem to ignite every dish. And BIR chefs have said we can't duplicate the food at home (maybe because we're afraid of 2-foot-high flames in our own kitchens?). Anyhow, I just wanted to toss this out for further discussion, unless you feel this has already been discussed enough.
-Mary
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I agree - maybe not with the word 'burning' but certainly some heavy frying and maybe naked flames on the food!
In spite of what some people say, there's no way that smell you get outside a curry house is caused by boiling vegetables. Not in a month of Sundays :)
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Ive heard a chef say that getting the pan on fire help to caramelise the spices, what that actually means exactly im not 100% sure, i do know that if you get a small balti pan really hot and serve up a portion of curry in it, it certainly improves the flavour... maybe sudden bursts of heat do special things? :o
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I've always been afraid of burning the spices. I've done that making garam masala, and it's not a good taste. :(
Maybe mixing the spices with oil allows them to tolerate a higher temp. Doesn't make sense, though.
-Mary
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I think wetting the spices with water (or vinegar) is often used to prevent them burning too quickly. When you put them in hot oil, the water has to be driven off first before the 'cooking' begins, so it gives you time. That's why they often use pastes in recipes. If they're in oil then the oil has to heat up first - but pastes in oil often also have water in them.
It's like frying chips: the oil isn't 'boiling' as such, it is the water in the potato being driven off as steam that causes the bubbling. Only as water is lost, and the oil temperature rise, do the chips start to burn (and the oil start to smoke if you go too far).
If you put spices dry into hot oil they hit the high temperature straight away and by the time you have put the spoon down they're beginning to catch :)
I find you get the same effect when you add them to frying onions - as long as the onions still have moisture they spices don't burn quite so easily.
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Ive heard a chef say that getting the pan on fire help to caramelise the spices, what that actually means exactly im not 100% sure, i do know that if you get a small balti pan really hot and serve up a portion of curry in it, it certainly improves the flavour... maybe sudden bursts of heat do special things? :o
There has to be a sugar content in order to caramelize . ;)
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Like i said, im not quite sure what the guy meant.. Id be very surprised if there wasnt any sugar in spices even trace elements (some spices are very sweet). But somehow id guess it was his way to describe a process that helps release the natural oils found in the spices.
The techniques used in indian cooking are designed to release the flavours trapped inside the spices, the roasting of spices is to help bring out the oil. I once wrote that if you are going to roast your spices then do them individually.. On the basis that each spice takes different levels of time to get to the point of releasing it oils then it makes sense that if you put all your spices in one pan and heat them then you will get some spices releasing their oils before others have even started.
The bhoona process (frying of spices) is to remove the raw spice taste and thats the hardest part imo. If you add raw spices to base sauce which has oil added then they will cook without the risk of burning (if the heat isnt too high), seems when the spices stick to the bottom of the pan they can make the curry bitter, the same when raw spices come into contact with hot pan or a hot grinding blade on an electric grinder then they can also burn.
Im sure the extra heat of a pan full of curry on fire helps release some oil in the spices...(although how much extra heat you would get is hard to say, the hottest part of the flame is at the top, not the best way to add heat to a liquid substance) but i would think a lower simmer over a longer period of time helps extract all full flavours (as what you might expect from an oven cooked curry in an caserole dish), some of my best curries have been left to simmer on a low back burner.
What might happen when the pan is on fire, is that the sugar in the onions is caramelising producing a sweeter flavour not the spices. Im sure your average chef doesnt understand the exact physics behind the technique but he sure knows what tastes best.
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Technically (i.e. chemically), 'caramelisation' does refer to a process involving sugars (not just 'sugar'), but I think we all know what cooks would mean if they said it of something they had just set fire to for a few seconds - whether it involved loads of 'sugar' or not.
There can't really be any doubt that shaking something in a pan over a strong flame so that it catches fire must mean that something flammable is being released, or that the presence of the flame isn't going to create flavours that weren't there before.
Being pedantic, though (and I'm a chemist, as I've sad before), the word 'sugar' is an extremely broad label and every single thing we eat contains something that either IS a sugar, or which can be broken down into sugars during cooking. Onions have loads of sugars and are easily caramelised without adding anything else. Spices will be little different. But you don't need to add spoonfuls of Tate & Lyle to have sugar present :)
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I think wetting the spices with water (or vinegar) is often used to prevent them burning too quickly. When you put them in hot oil, the water has to be driven off first before the 'cooking' begins
Right, I always forget to do that. :-[ Several years ago I took a cooking class given by a local Indian woman, and I learned two things:
1. I don't especially like homestyle Indian food.
2. Every dish was cooked until the oil floated to the top. I'm guessing that happens only when the excess water has boiled away, and the oil temperature rises above boiling temp.
-Mary
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Id guess the reason the curry catches fire is hot oil comes into contact with the parts of the pan that are the hottest (ie the top of the pan) and its the oil/oils(remembering the spices are releasing their flavours) that creates the flame, the extra heat caramelises the sugars producing..? Well supposedly a different flavour than can be produced without setting it on fire.
Someone should ask a chef why he sets his food on fire.. would be interesting to hear the different answers.
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I bet they'd say, to a man, that that's the way they were taught ;)
If you watch normal British-food chefs on TV, sometimes the explanations for techniques they use are completely wrong (and different each time one of them tries to explain it). They often resort to folklore-ish explanations.
Meat is a prime example. Some say sealing prevents loss of the juices, whilst others state that this is complete rubbish. Tests show that it IS complete rubbish, but most still do it citing that explanation.
And seasoning meat is another one. Some say season before cooking, and others say do it after because it will cause juices to be lost. Personally, I've found seasoning before cooking gives a better flavour (British dishes, here) and doesn't cause it to suddenly turn into powder :) but if I forget it hardly matters.
I can't see Indian chefs being any different really :D
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I have seen the chefs using a big bowl of what i think is lemon juice next to pan which they flick onto the dish whilst it is cooking, this goes up in the 2 foot flames you see when watching them cook.
stew 8)
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If I've interpreted a comment made on Saturday Kitchen correctly, it's liquid added to hot oil which causes the ignition. So a runny curry base hitting very hot oil may do it. Or, as Stew suggests, a squirt of lemon juice at the right time.
The only time a pan's gone up in flames when I've cooked before - and this was by accident - was when I was frying some mushrooms in a saucepan for a fry-up. I like to fry them whole but without the stalks, open side up so that the juice collects inside. But I left them too long, tipped the pan and the juice spilled out of the mushrooms and hit the hot oil - woof! Up it went.
I really want to flame my curry pan, 'cos I need to know if it makes a difference. But when I try I just end up with curry sauce all over the hob. My pan is too big and deep I think, but I'm getting a new one shortly.
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The only time a pan's gone up in flames when I've cooked before - and this was by accident - was when I was frying some mushrooms in a saucepan for a fry-up.
I had a horrifying experience a few weeks ago. I was deep-frying sliced ladyfingers/okra, and when I put them into the hot oil, the oil instantly bubbled up like a cauldron from hell! Only the fact that I was using a very deep pot kept the oil from overflowing and instantly catching fire. I was paralyzed with fear, and even as I type this I shudder to think how bad it might have been.
I don't recall if the final dish had that smoky taste or not. :)
-Mary
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15 yrs ago when I arrived in Sweden my wife and I lived in a really small flat, we had virtually no cooking equipment except a 2 ring hob and a portable grill.. I remember grilling some bacon and didnt bother to clean the grill pan. The next time I put the grill onthe pan got really hot and smokey.. realising my mistake I immediately put the grill pan under the tap and almost recieved 3 degree burns on my face..It happened so quickly.. almost like a firework exploding, a large sheet of flame around my head. Now we have "real" cooker with an extraction fan.. which means I have to be even more careful not to get those 2 foot flames. Id love to test it out though :)