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Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Dajoca on July 31, 2012, 10:48 PM

Title: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: Dajoca on July 31, 2012, 10:48 PM

Prologue:
I've made the SNS base twice now, with all the dishes from my first go tasting wonderful  (though seemingly better than those from my second batch).
1st batch made using White Pearl mild curry powder, as it was all I could find and the second batch made using the Rajah mild madras curry powder, having finally found a seller.
The White Pearl powder has a much lighter and more pleasant aroma than the Rajah which possesses a much darker(?) smell.
I subsequently tried the Taz base and have been using the recipes for that base posted by Stephen Lindsay.

The Chicken Ceylon - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8145.msg71760#msg71760 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8145.msg71760#msg71760) in particular, was a very nice dish, with the mellow taste of coconut and the sharpness of the lemon juice contrasting nicely.

The question I have though (finally) regards the other 3 dishes I found.
Chicken Madras - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8088.msg76754#msg76754 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8088.msg76754#msg76754)

And particularly between
Chicken Jalfrezi - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5429.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5429.0)
Garlic Chilli Chicken - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=7446.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=7446.0)

The initial method, tomato paste, GG, Methi and BE spice mix are all very similar, so while there is some variation with the amount of garlic, pepper, chilli pepper and onion, will the resulting dishes not all taste remarkably similar?

I've really only just started cooking BIR curries, so please forgive a n00b for his impudence, but if the base and basic ingredients are the same, does the spice mix not need to vary in order to truly differentiate between the dishes?

I wonder if anyone here has cooked the same dishes with the same base, but used a different spice mix each time, or maybe used a single different spice (brand of curry powder?) and noticed a significant difference?

Maybe that should be my next experiment.

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on July 31, 2012, 11:41 PM

Quote from: Dajoca on July 31, 2012, 10:48 PM

The question I have though (finally) regards the other 3 dishes I found.
Chicken Madras - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8088.msg76754#msg76754 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8088.msg76754#msg76754)

And particularly between
Chicken Jalfrezi - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5429.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5429.0)
Garlic Chilli Chicken - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=7446.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=7446.0)

The initial method, tomato paste, GG, Methi and BE spice mix are all very similar, so while there is some variation with the amount of garlic, pepper, chilli pepper and onion, will the resulting dishes not all taste remarkably similar?

I pulled the two lists of ingredients into Excel and manipulated them until they appeared in the same order, and I have to say, I think that you are quite right : they /are/ remarkably similar.  But whether the resulting dishes taste nearly the same, or similar, or completely different, I cannot say : I leave that to the author(s) of the recipes.

** Phil.
--------

1 portion of pre-cooked chicken	1 portion of precooked chicken

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: DalPuri on August 01, 2012, 12:46 AM

Quote from: Dajoca on July 31, 2012, 10:48 PM

I've really only just started cooking BIR curries, so please forgive a n00b for his impudence, but if the base and basic ingredients are the same, does the spice mix not need to vary in order to truly differentiate between the dishes?

This is what i do Dajoca. If i'm cooking a few curries, i'll cook each one with a different mixed powder so its not just a madras, a madras with coconut, a madras with lentils. . .etc.  ;)

Cheers, Frank.  :)

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: Razor on August 01, 2012, 10:54 AM

Hi Dajoca,

Yes, you would think that two dishes with similar ingredients would turn out pretty much the same wouldn't you? However, the length of cooking each component receives, the size of each component, the quantity of each component will all make subtle differences to the end result. 

A pinch of sugar here or a sprinkle of salt there, again help determine the end result.

Here is a little experiment to prove the point;

Take;

Half a tomato
half an onion
1 clove of garlic
1 cm x 1 cm of fresh ginger
1 tbsp of oil

Finely chop the tomatoes and onions
crush the garlic and ginger to a pulp and mix together
next. heat the oil and fry all of the ingredients on medium heat for 5 minutes.

Now, with the same ingredient;
slice the tomato and onion
slice the garlic and Julienne the ginger,

Heat the oil on high and when very hot, add all the ingredients and fry hard for 3 minutes.

Same ingredients but the outcome of each will be very different!

I hope that kind of explains what I mean? ???

All the best,

Ray :)

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: JerryM on August 01, 2012, 06:12 PM

Quote from: Dajoca on July 31, 2012, 10:48 PM

does the spice mix not need to vary in order to truly differentiate between the dishes?

really good post. i don't think we fully have the answer.

i have 13 mains that i make of which i use same mix for 11 off. the dishes don't taste anywhere near the same but the recipes are different.

this is the recipe i use for jalfrezi which might help the comparisons (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2664.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2664.0.html)).

not found a garlic chilli recipe yet.

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: natterjak on August 01, 2012, 06:23 PM

I think we do have the answer. Numerous eyewitness reports and videos showing BIRs using the same spice mix powder across many dishes whilst somehow producing food which doesn't taste the same. So no, I don't think you do necessarily need a different mix powder to produce different tasting dishes.

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: curryhell on August 01, 2012, 09:53 PM

Quote from: natterjak on August 01, 2012, 06:23 PM

I think we do have the answer. Numerous eyewitness reports and videos showing BIRs using the same spice mix powder across many dishes whilst somehow producing food which doesn't taste the same. So no, I don't think you do necessarily need a different mix powder to produce different tasting dishes.

Find myself agreeing with you Chris.  Change the order of ingredients, swap garlic and ginger puree for fresh sliced garlic, reduce tomato puree and add a bit of fresh tomato, add green peppers at the beginning instead of half way through etc. etc.  The connotations are many.  I've been cooking chewy's madras a lot lately with minimal variation in technique but adding things at different times and making subtle changes to the ingredients as mentioned above.  What a difference these subtle changes make :o ::) I've a considerable amount of experimenting still to do before all my questions are answered.  And i don't eat madras!!!!!  But this curry is definitely growing on me and i'm learning a lot from cooking it.  After 30 years of eating vindaloo and a lot hotter, i'm beginning to think i've eventually lost the plot :o ;D

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: Malc. on August 01, 2012, 11:15 PM

What I understand is that each BIR will have it's own set of basics, base, spice mix, etc. All designed to work with each other and all designed to allow the chef to create individual dishes. The problem as has always been the case here, is that we try different bases with different spice mixes, that will always lead to a different outcome. I only have to point to the Kushi spice mix to show how different these components can be.


If the question is, do you need a different spice mix for different dishes, than I will agree with NJ, no you don't, but you do need to stick the original recipes as they were designed.

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: Dajoca on August 02, 2012, 03:46 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I will certainly give the different techniques / order of ingredients a go.

My problem with the taste test, is that I almost never fully enjoy any meal once straight after cooking it, whether it be Indian, Chinese, Chilli or Pizza (That's all the essential food groups covered I think).

Must be due to being immersed in the smells and flavours of the cooking, so my ability to discern the subtle differences so soon after cooking is just FUBAR, not very good.

Off to try a new Madras with the remaining Taz base this evening.

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: 976bar on August 02, 2012, 04:56 PM

I know where you are coming from Dajoca,

Sometimes after cooking for my clan, I really can't be bothered to eat what I have just prepared, so I leave a portion for me in the fridge for the next day and to be honest it tastes so much better.

Whether it has amalgamated and gathered more flavour overnight in the fridge or whether it's because my nostrils and taste buds have recovered to a normal(ish) level, I guess I will never know :)

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on August 02, 2012, 05:07 PM

Quote from: 976bar on August 02, 2012, 04:56 PM

Whether it has amalgamated and gathered more flavour overnight in the fridge or whether it's because my nostrils and taste buds have recovered to a normal(ish) level, I guess I will never know :)

You could train a member of your clan to cook to your own high standards, then ask him or her to prepare a meal while you go for a nice long walk, and then see whether if you eat 50% when you get home and 50% the next day, the latter tastes significantly better than the former.  How are you doing down at sunny Egham, and how comes they let you out for long enough to not only read this forum but to post on it ?!

** Phil.

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: 976bar on August 02, 2012, 05:37 PM

Hi Phil,

The only one of my clan who has had the patience to learn from me is my eldest daughter who unfortunately lives away and because of work I only get to see her and my grandson once a week, so I doubt that will ever happen, but wishful thinking :)

Olympics is going well thanks, today and tomorrow are my days off. Up at 4.30am in work for 6am then work till 2.30pm with half an hours break in between. It's non stop... by the time I have queued up to get my clothes back after my shift and drive home, I don't normally get back till around 4.30pm.

At 53, I am not used to standing on my feet in a kitchen reaching some 45 degrees for 8 hours, so usually collapse on the bed and fall into a deep slumber. Unfortunately, I then wake up around 2am and can't get back to sleep. It's a viscous circle at the moment, but....

It's exciting, there are a great bunch of people I am working with and having never spent time in a commercial kitchen it's hard work but fun and I am enjoying it.

Coming face to face to with some of the Olympic rowing athletes, they are ginormous!! Some of the, not only men but women are over 7 feet tall and built like Spartacus. There is one female Olympic rower from the USA who I have taken a shine to and she always orders a curry from me, but I would need an orange box to be able to kiss her  ;D

By the way, the Holloway University is stunning. The architecture is mind blowing on the main original building. I have taken some pictures which I will post here once I have downloaded them.

Hope you are keeping well :)

Regards,

Bob

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: 976bar on August 02, 2012, 06:03 PM

Here are some pictures of the stunning Holloway University in Egham where the Olympic Rowing Village is based. The architecture is stunning :)

Also a picture of me helping the Japanese Chef prepare some Sushi. No I don't have the recipe and yes it was disgusting!! Tuna Sushi in the middle and Endamame Sushi (Soya Bean) on the left and right.

Sorry, no pictures of curries, as this is out front of house and no cameras allowed :(

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/279de9a4caea76850c5b5971e2484eb4.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#279de9a4caea76850c5b5971e2484eb4.jpg)

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/cfac2fe18f5db83f836e9a52a2f519cc.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#cfac2fe18f5db83f836e9a52a2f519cc.jpg)

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7d402092b668171f11629eb4bb1856f9.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7d402092b668171f11629eb4bb1856f9.jpg)

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5a2b0fe086a6a988ef2ea3747c6ea8e4.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5a2b0fe086a6a988ef2ea3747c6ea8e4.jpg)

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: Dajoca on August 03, 2012, 12:52 AM

Great stuff Bob and well done for landing such a prestigious job.

It must be that gentle Glaswegian accent :o that has the lady so enamoured.

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: 976bar on August 03, 2012, 06:29 AM

Quote from: Dajoca on August 03, 2012, 12:52 AM

Great stuff Bob and well done for landing such a prestigious job.

It must be that gentle Glaswegian accent :o that has the lady so enamoured.

lol Dajoca, considering I am from London, I doubt it would be my gentle Glaswegian accent  ;D ;D

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: Dajoca on August 03, 2012, 12:44 PM

My apologies Bob. I obviously plucked that Glasgow association directly from the ether. ::)

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on August 03, 2012, 01:27 PM

Quote from: Dajoca on August 03, 2012, 12:44 PM

My apologies Bob. I obviously plucked that Glasgow association directly from the ether. ::)

It could have been worse -- just imagine if Bob /were/ a Glaswegian and you had accused him of having a Cockney accent;  I can just imagine the response : "See you, Jimmy... You're hanging your @rse oot the windae...  Has your mither got a sewing machine ?  Aye, well, tell her to stitch this ,  then ..." (followed by traditional Glasgow handshake involving Bob's head and your nose) !

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on August 03, 2012, 07:47 PM

great pics 976 - glad you are enjoying it even though it is hard work by the sound of it!

Title: Re: Similarities in recipes, spice mix's and therefore tastes?
Post by: George on August 03, 2012, 11:24 PM

Quote from: 976bar on August 02, 2012, 05:37 PM

There is one female Olympic rower from the USA who I have taken a shine to and she always orders a curry from me

Your involvement with the Olympics is so interesting. I agree with you about that building as well.

Is your work a mix of assisting other chefs and cooking your own dish(es)? I'm surprised they allow anyone to prepare their own recipes. I'd have expected the menus to be quite tightly controlled. With the greatest respect, I'm also surprised they let anyone loose in a commercial kitchen, who had no previous experience of that type, from what you say. Are there many novices in terms of commercial catering experience?