Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: prawnsalad on April 07, 2012, 02:14 AM
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Having watched several of the Public YouTube videos including the base gravy tutorial I think they're all excellent however I felt a bit down when he mentioned how important spiced oil in the base is seeing as he makes his as a by-product of Onion Bhajis.
I once tried a method from here which was basically the same as making base with more oil and reducing it right down with a few other spices then draining the oil, sadly it took ages and made little difference.
So could anyone who has bought the book briefly say if he mentions an easier method? Obviously I it needs to have the same effect as Bhaji oil.
If there's a working alternative I will buy it straight away otherwise probably not.
Thanks..
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Having watched several of the Public YouTube videos including the base gravy tutorial I think they're all excellent however I felt a bit down when he mentioned how important spiced oil in the base is seeing as he makes his as a by-product of Onion Bhajis.
I once tried a method from here which was basically the same as making base with more oil and reducing it right down with a few other spices then draining the oil, sadly it took ages and made little difference.
So could anyone who has bought the book briefly say if he mentions an easier method? Obviously I it needs to have the same effect as Bhaji oil.
If there's a working alternative I will buy it straight away otherwise probably not.
Thanks..
Sorry prawnsalad, still bhaji oil as per youtube video :-\
W
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Having watched several of the Public YouTube videos including the base gravy tutorial I think they're all excellent however I felt a bit down when he mentioned how important spiced oil in the base is seeing as he makes his as a by-product of Onion Bhajis.
I've mentioned this oil many times, and it is very important
I made curries 100% exact, using old oil I got from a Kebab/Chip shop
Getting oil from an unknown source is a very silly idea
It was an act of desperation which luckily panned out
I can't make oil like that at home
It's not just what you put through it
It's the fact the fryer is on for hours empty, with the sediment slowly cooking
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I've mentioned this oil many times, and it is very important
If you're right - and you may well be - then it sounds like a real show-stopper, like it really is non-viable to make BIR curries at home, to quite the same standard, unless you spend a lot of time and money cooking hundreds of onion bhajis and/or other high-volume fried items passing through BIRs and/or other takeaways. Perhaps there really is no substitute.
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I'm hoping its not an essential because theres only so much room in my freezer onion bhajis ,gravy's, chicken ,
mini magnums
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I'm hoping its not an essential because theres only so much room in my freezer onion bhajis ,gravy's, chicken ,
mini magnums
I let you know later Michael when i've cooked a dish with my vat of Julian's gravy,just cooling now, minus spiced oil. I've no doubt i'll be missing one layer of flavour due to its omission but the impact will IMHO only be marginal and will not affect adversely the overall quality of the gravy, providing i did everything else right of course ;D. From the many writings on here one can discern that it's not always used by BIR's, but i can appreciate the frustration of people who know that their local recycles oil which provides an additonal layer of flavour to the final taste of dishes. How can you replicate that when god knows what has been cooked in it over christ knows what period of time before it obviously move into a curry gravy ???. I'll just have to settle for 99% success then ;D
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I let you know later Michael when i've cooked a dish with my vat of Julian's gravy,just cooling now, minus spiced oil.
I'm cooking the 3 litre version, minus spiced oil, too
Instructions miss times for cooking this base
I'm waiting for that "vinegar" smell
2 and a half hours in and no sign yet
Fingers crossed it works out, or it's just another base
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Hi prawnsalad
LOL ;D Oh No, Old Bhaji oil again, absolute nonsense. :o
Really bad practice, H&S issues and will add nothing of value to your base gravy.
Old Bhaji oil, A Complete Red Herring.
Convincing novices that they have to do this to get the BIR taste is untrue and criminal IMHO.
True Bengali spiced oil on the other hand, has value, as does Bengali spiced water.
Be interesting to here other members views on how much of this c2g ebook is original information
or just stuff that's been compiled and rewritten from others, especially cR0 threads and existing "undercover" publications and videos.
I was amazed to read one review, where they say out of 119 pages, 100 of them
are a biography/history of the author. - Crikey, that's some preface.
c2g is very plausible in his videos for beginners and I think he also believe's his own hype.
He may burst into song at some stage, X factor, Britains got Talent style ;D ;D only kidding ;D
cheers Chewy
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I let you know later Michael when i've cooked a dish with my vat of Julian's gravy,just cooling now, minus spiced oil.
I'm cooking the 3 litre version, minus spiced oil, too
Instructions miss times for cooking this base
I'm waiting for that "vinegar" smell
2 and a half hours in and no sign yet
Fingers crossed it works out, or it's just another base
That was my plan too to wait for the "smell". But as i was in the kitchen i decided to make use of my time and precook some chicken using ifindforu's recipe, which by the way turned out better than the first time. Needless to say i had no chance of smelling much with the kitchen full of that superb aroma of the whole spice in with the chicken.
From the boil i cooked it for three hours before adding spices. If i'd have waited for the smell i'd have been there all night. I tasted the veg after this time and the liquor and the level of sweetness was quite amazing. This is masked once in the cooked base though but obviously will play a large part once the curry cooking begins. I intend to do a quick phall with it and see how it compares to my zaal base. I have high hopes for the technique used though based on the taste of just the veg after cooking ::). Will be interesting to hear the results from the pressure cooking chefs. CT's gravy must have this taste already as he employs the pressure cook method. Do you notice any distinct smell at the end stage of cooking CT? ???
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LOL ;D Oh No, Old Bhaji oil again, absolute nonsense. :o
I tend to agree with you. In the past I've tried seasoned oil in the base and it just gets lost and makes no discernible difference. I know others have also had a similar experience. In the final dish it would make a difference, but Julian doesn't specify the use of seasoned oil in the recipes for the final dishes.
I was amazed to read one review, where they say out of 119 pages, 100 of them
are a biography/history of the author. - Crikey, that's some preface.
There is a lot of non-recipe-related material (how he came to have his own business, etc.) but it's certainly not quite as bad as that. It's an interesting read.
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Hi prawnsalad
LOL ;D Oh No, Old Bhaji oil again, absolute nonsense. :o
Really bad practice, H&S issues and will add nothing of value to your base gravy.
Old Bhaji oil, A Complete Red Herring.
Convincing novices that they have to do this to get the BIR taste is untrue and criminal IMHO.
Couldn't agree more. Been there, done that. It makes naff-all difference. And whole I have no doubt that some BIRs recycle old oil, not one of the dozen or so I've been in use it (at least there was no evidence of any - just the usual tubs of veg ghee by the stove).
I was amazed to read one review, where they say out of 119 pages, 100 of them
are a biography/history of the author. - Crikey, that's some preface.
Not sure who that comes from, but more nonsense. Julian's story occupies some parts of some of the chapters, and makes for a more interesting read than your standard recipe and ingredients book (IMHO).
I'm cooking the 3 litre version, minus spiced oil, too
Instructions miss times for cooking this base
I'm waiting for that "vinegar" smell
2 and a half hours in and no sign yet
Fingers crossed it works out, or it's just another base
'That smell' is pretty subtle, and I find it usually occurs any time from an hour in (cooking in a normal pot, not a pressure cooker). It's difficult to describe - sort of 'tangy' is the best i can do - but it's easy to miss, especially if you've been preparing garlic, ginger and all the rest.
But I wouldn't worry if about it - just let heat and chemistry do their thing. Onceup to tickover temp, if your onions get a nice cook on a low heat for around an hour and a half all will be fine.
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I've mentioned this oil many times, and it is very important
If you're right - and you may well be - then it sounds like a real show-stopper, like it really is non-viable to make BIR curries at home, to quite the same standard, unless you spend a lot of time and money cooking hundreds of onion bhajis and/or other high-volume fried items passing through BIRs and/or other takeaways. Perhaps there really is no substitute.
I admit when I saw that used bhaji oil was an essential ingredient I was a bit disappointed,I'm not mad on onion bhajis to be honest and if I had to make a big batch I know they wouldn't be eaten.I know it's been debated to death,but without exception in every restaurant I've managed to ask any questions they deny it,including Az(Zaal).If I remember Abdul said anyone who did it in his restaurant would be sacked!! Az seemed a really honest guy,I don't think he would try to throw us of the sent.Confusingly Julian does used spiced oil in his videos for his main dishes but in his book he lists plain veg/sunflower oil.
A new upmarket restaurant opened near me recently,reports are that the food is exceptional.It got me thinking,how do they achieve that taste on their first night if they have supposed to have used old recycled oil that has cooked hundreds of bhajis and has been left to ferment.They simply wouldn't have had time to produce this stuff.It really bugs me,this spiced oil thing,Haldi's seen it first hand but I can't find anywhere else that uses it(or admits to using it).One thing though,I can't wait for the results of member's attempts of Julian's gravy,albeit it without bhaji oil!!!
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One thing though,I can't wait for the results of member's attempts of Julian's gravy,albeit it without bhaji oil!!!
Ok, where shall I post the result then??? Where on earth is this up market restaurant Jason?? In Grays or are we talking Orsett Cock ???
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One thing though,I can't wait for the results of member's attempts of Julian's gravy,albeit it without bhaji oil!!!
Ok, where shall I post the result then??? Where on earth is this up market restaurant Jason?? In Grays or are we talking Orsett Cock ???
Orsett Cock that's the one,haven't been there myself but the few reports I've had said it was outstanding,only going by what they say though!! It may be just average!!
I would be interested in where exactly Julian first encountered the use of old bhaji oil.I'm hoping it was first hand from a BIR source.Apart from this forum the only other time I've come accross it is from The Undercover Curry Book(which I didn't like that much).Julian admits he has read the book so hopefully it's not just an idea he's got from there.The thing that I notice that is missing from his second part of his gravy technique is that he doesn't bhargar(think that's the term) his spices.I.e instead of frying his garlic,spices etc and then added them to the boiled onions he just spoons them into the boiled mixture.Not saying it's wrong but I'm quite struck on this idea,the ABC book does it as does Az from the Zaal(Ifind4u posted some good info on this if I remember).
Hope Julian doesn't think we're criticizing him or his book!! I'm sure every chapter will be dissected by us and discussed.I think the book's great,hats off to him for his passion of BIR and indeed for reailzing his dream of opening his own place.
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Old oil/bhaji oil(pakora oil in Glasgow), as with load of other things seemed plausible to me whilst barking up many a wrong tree. But it really is a complete waste of time. Splitting hairs over onion sweetness is also something I'll leave to experienced pro's to mull over. I pick a gravy at random, put the gas as high as possible & forget the usual method of using a frying pan thats ingrained in me.(when do we ever use a frying pan on full heat ?)
Only then have I any chance of producing the taste. A handful of ingredients & technique produces the taste, palate & chefs creativity will elevate it into something special. I'm also disappointed to hear the old oil theory included as essential....because it isn't
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Orsett Cock that's the one,haven't been there myself but the few reports I've had said it was outstanding,only going by what they say though!! It may be just average!!
It's on the radar but no firm plans as yet to go there
I would be interested in where exactly Julian first encountered the use of old bhaji oil.I'm hoping it was first hand from a BIR source.Apart from this forum the only other time I've come accross it is from The Undercover Curry Book
Obviously the practice does go on in some TA's and BIR's but the extent of this cannot really be gauged. We can only comment via the contributions from those on the forum that have actually got into the kitchens of their locals. I personally used to witness my curry being started with oil from the top of the gravy back in the early 80's at the Padma. But in the other kitchens i've been to it's always been fresh oil used.
The thing that I notice that is missing from his second part of his gravy technique is that he doesn't bhargar(think that's the term) his spices.I.e instead of frying his garlic,spices etc and then added them to the boiled onions he just spoons them into the boiled mixture.Not saying it's wrong but I'm quite struck on this idea,the ABC book does it as does Az from the Zaal(Ifind4u posted some good info on this if I remember).
I must admit while i was prepping everything yesterday, i was in two minds whether to use the Zaal recipe with Julians onion cooking technique. I resisted the temptation and did the bangladeshi gravy to speck minus oil and substituted the cabbage for more onions ;D. His method of a one pot gravy isn't much different from many of the bases on here that have been witnessed in BIR's. But agree the pre frying of spice, garlic etc prior to adding to the gravy sits well with me.
Hope Julian doesn't think we're criticizing him or his book!! I'm sure every chapter will be dissected by us and discussed.I think the book's great,hats off to him for his passion of BIR and indeed for reailzing his dream of opening his own place.
I think the man has broad shoulders and can take it. You don't stick your head above the parapit and not expect to get shot at. I too am sure there will be considerable discussion over the contents in the coming weeks as feed back filters through. Now where shall i post my comments on my Zaal phall with C2G's base?? ;D
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I would be interested in where exactly Julian first encountered the use of old bhaji oil.I'm hoping it was first hand from a BIR source.Apart from this forum the only other time I've come accross it is from The Undercover Curry Book(which I didn't like that much).
This was my first thought - that it originated from the 'Undercover' book. This is what prompted me to try it and as I mentioned in my previous post, it made no discernible difference to the base.
I wonder if anyone would be interested in doing two versions of Julian's base, one with seasoned oil and one without. I imagine Julian has done something similar in order to find what works best, but it would be interesting nonetheless.
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I think its a case of some do some don't use bhaji oil, i'm 100% sure these takeaway owners are as frugal as can be. For example, FACT some employees are paid cash in hand so theyre not on the books. More profit ::)
It makes sense in my mind that instead of throwing away, they have one more use for it.
However, that said when i last had a takeaway experience Q and A session the one i went to didn't use it.
Lets not forget though that julian does say his ebook comes from his experience of the last 20 yrs working in curry kitchens!
Off the back of that though i'm using chalice oil ???
W
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Here's a post I put on the dark side!!!!
Been looking on here for a while now as the other side has gone quiet and I know what you lot are like but it's my attempt to create spiced oil and I think it works well!!!
Rational was - if bhajii's are simpley fried, oil heated and reheated then do the same but without cooking the bhajii's - if that make scene!!
Method:-
1 ltr of veg oil
2 medium sized brown onion - chopped into 1/4s
2'' ginger - sliced unpeeled
4 garlic cloves
1 tbsp cumin seeds
1 tbsp coriander seeds
6 green cardamoms - cracked
1 black cardamom - cracked
3 Indian bay leafs
2 sticks of cassia bark
2 pepper corns
2 cloves
Simply add all the ingredients to a heavy based pot, raise temperature and fry for 60 mins until everything starts caramelised and goes black. (I'm using a Rayburn so you will need to adjust timings to suit)
After everything has caramelised transfer to cool side of Rayburn and leave for as long as you like ? usually overnight - if no Rayburn/Aga then allow to cool
Next day - sieve the oil and discard the ingredients - everything should be completely crispy
Return the oil to the pan and complete the entire process again using exactly the same new ingredients again - then sieve through a fine mesh stainless colander
I?m storing it in the fridge and topping up with skimmed oil from the base.
To ensure you end up with clean filtered oil only use whole spices; not powder.
Getting some good results with it
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7e6555fd22db56e73653345f956516ee.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7e6555fd22db56e73653345f956516ee.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c3e2a81bcf7d7aff7a6db0621ce45671.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c3e2a81bcf7d7aff7a6db0621ce45671.jpg)
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Hi Markh,
So, this oil that you have made, have you tried it in your curries and if so, do you believe that it has made a difference to the taste of your curries?
And congratulations on your first post, and welcome to cr0 :)
Ray :)
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Hi Razor
Yeah came up with idea about 9 months ago - working well for me and believe its another 5% closer
Although only first post here I've been on RCR for 4 odd years now and been on the same quest as you guys here on CRO - cooking curries for 20 + years :'(
Funny when I joined RCR and started with some of there standard reciepes - its wierd as I'm now getting closer to that BIR taste - but the reciepes have not change - as far as I concerned its all down to the first 2 minutes in the pan and technique !!!
Thanks for the welcome
Back on thread will be cooking Curry 2 Go base from ebook tomorrow!!!!!
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Been trying to upload piccy of spiced oil - getting this message not sure if its my end!!!
An Error Has Occurred! The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator.
Admin - can you help?
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Welcome to CR0 Mark. Not sure how i missed your post. I see the logic behind how you are creating your seasoned oil and can't really fault it other than not having the pleasure of munching on all those onion bhajis ;D. I think the main question has to be does using seasoned oil make that much of a difference to the end result? Some on here say yes and advocate it, some say it's not worth the effort and the rest of us are undecided and yet to be convinced. We are a funny lot on here, aren't we ;). And so critical, but not as critical as we are self critical if that makes sense ::)
Re upload error, use the CR0 image host found here. If you need any help shout
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/ (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/)
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Thanks curryhell
Yeah your right - you are a funny lot :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
I'm convinced its all down to layers - but understanding how those layers are made up is key - which I still dont fully understand on my quest for example:-
I've cooked 30 bases
used 25 different spice mixes
10 cooking methods
However going back to basics I've got competley messed up results :-\ :-\ :-\
So back to basics and best to date is the Zeera Restaurant Madras with the RCR 'Mild Takeaway Base Gravy' and spiced oil
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Oh dear. You've obviously been around the block a few times like many of us on here. Not sure what advice to give other than sticking to a tried and tested base. As for mix powder, i'm not going to enter the minefield of "it needs to matched to the base". but the technique is very much key. Bottom line, no matter how good your base and mix powder, if the person with the pan and chef's spoon doesn't know what to do with it, the results will be crap. I can only suggest you read the Zaal lesson threads. The findings of the visit may prove helpful or at least provoke some thought. One bonus here, it rarely goes quiet unless somebody releases an e- book ;D
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Hi Markh,
So, this oil that you have made, have you tried it in your curries and if so, do you believe that it has made a difference to the taste of your curries?
And congratulations on your first post, and welcome to cr0 :)
Ray :)
Good post and Ray's comment for me is the acid test. Alternatively I could ask - does it really matter? If you think it makes for a better curry then carry on using it and you will remain satisfied with your results.
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Spiced oil or spiced water the oil or water is the carrier of the spices/flavour and only once or twice have I had the right ratio of whole spices in my base that produced the most savoury flavoursome curry's I have ever had :o no joking I could have licked the plate ;D and my Mrs who can never finish her Saturday madras and saves some for sunday supper scoffed the lot saying it was the tastiest curry she's ever had 8) I only need to work out what ratio of whole spices are needed in a 6ltr base to give this wonderful flavour and I'll be sorted.I do believe it's quite a lot of whole spices needed in a base to be able to give this level of flavour in the finished dish and I have tried what I thought would be enough but the base fell short on flavour,when you do get it right the aroma is fabulous.
Just to add,the times I did get it right was when I added whole spices to the 600ml of base I had in a saucepan for the nights curry's and that was left for a few hours (infusing the base :P) while I was preparing the rest of the meal.
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Spiced oil or spiced water the oil or water is the carrier of the spices/flavour
You don't say ;D ;) Touche I think.
I totally agree. Yesterday whilst i was cooking Julian's base i prepared some chicken using Ifindforu's method. The chicken was excellent as per the last time i cooked it. But what was left in the pan afterwards was the dog's bollocks. I added no water during the cooking process, working on the assumption that enough water would come out of the meat. The smell and the taste of the melting onions flavoured with cardamon, cassia and asian bay was not just BIR, it had the smell and the taste to the extent i just couldn't stop myself from tasting it. I just could not stop myself from having several teaspoons and saying YES, this is it. This needs to be replicated in the base sauce. It was all i could do to stop myself from throwing it in Julian's base. But i resisted and have now frozen it. This little pot is a gem. All i need now to do is get the flavour in the same proportion into my base, and i will have cracked it. Six cardamons, 4 asian bay and 2 x 2 inch cassia sticks per 50 ml of oil by my reckoning. Hope this helps. Between the two of us maybe we can come up with just the right balance. What a breakthrough that would be. The "ackni" stock at Zaal was good, but being stock the intensity of the flavour was lost in the base. By using Julian's method of frying the oninon plus the correct proportion of whole spice, i think we may be onto something big emin-j?? :D
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Spiced oil or spiced water the oil or water is the carrier of the spices/flavour
You don't say ;D ;) Touche I think.
Ya got me there CH ;) :D
I totally agree. Yesterday whilst i was cooking Julian's base i prepared some chicken using Ifindforu's method. The chicken was excellent as per the last time i cooked it. But what was left in the pan afterwards was the dog's bollocks. I added no water during the cooking process, working on the assumption that enough water would come out of the meat. The smell and the taste of the melting onions flavoured with cardamon, cassia and asian bay was not just BIR, it had the smell and the taste to the extent i just couldn't stop myself from tasting it. I just could not stop myself from having several teaspoons and saying YES, this is it. This needs to be replicated in the base sauce. It was all i could do to stop myself from throwing it in Julian's base. But i resisted and have now frozen it. This little pot is a gem. All i need now to do is get the flavour in the same proportion into my base, and i will have cracked it. Six cardamons, 4 asian bay and 2 x 2 inch cassia sticks per 50 ml of oil by my reckoning. Hope this helps. Between the two of us maybe we can come up with just the right balance. What a breakthrough that would be. The "ackni" stock at Zaal was good, but being stock the intensity of the flavour was lost in the base. By using Julian's method of frying the oninon plus the correct proportion of whole spice, i think we may be onto something big emin-j?? :D
CH,as you say, the flavour from the whole spice is amazing ,from memory in my 600ml of base (c2go) it was 6 cardamom,4Asian bay,2cloves,2"cinnamon,1star anice and some how Ive got to work out a starting point for 6ltrs ??? If I pro-rata it it's gonna be loads :D
Just to make you smile I bought a coffee machine yesterday and had a couple of brews to try it out,last one was about 11.30pm and now I cant sleep :( typing this at 02.33 am and wide awake :'() atb.
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The residue left from precooking chicken is delicious,I remember on my takeaway lesson I saw a huge tub of the stuff on the side from which the chef was spooning out the remains of the precooked chicken.I can't believe for one minute they would chuck this stuff away,it's far too flavoursome.Do some places throw this back in the gravy?? I honestly don't know.It would seriously upset the vegetarians,but is this why they're so secretive??
Julian's smaller base is next on my list,I know it's not going to be as per his spec completely but I may do two versions,one with some pre cooked chicken residue added and one without to see what the difference is.
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The residue left from precooking chicken is delicious,I remember on my takeaway lesson I saw a huge tub of the stuff on the side from which the chef was spooning out the remains of the precooked chicken.I can't believe for one minute they would chuck this stuff away,it's far too flavoursome.Do some places throw this back in the gravy?? I honestly don't know.It would seriously upset the vegetarians,but is this why they're so secretive??
Julian's smaller base is next on my list,I know it's not going to be as per his spec completely but I may do two versions,one with some pre cooked chicken residue added and one without to see what the difference is.
It's definitely food for thought jb. JerryM did try adding 100ml of this to a 3ltr base with no discernable difference :-\
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8184.msg72368;topicseen#msg72368 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8184.msg72368;topicseen#msg72368)
As for it being added to the gravy, i'm sure there are some less scrupulous establishments that do this and it would have to remain one of the untold secrets. Can you imagine the hullabaloo if that got out :o. The veges would go apeshit and quite rightly so.
I can see the point of using "spiced" oil though. If you make a gravy that contains a lot of oil what better than to use the stuff you've been cooking your bhajis in, providing it's not too far gone. You get rid of your waste oil from the fryer and recycle it in your gravy. Very thrifty :D.
I've now have three lots of base in the freezer so i won't be making any more soon. The next lot will be on a small scale and definitely have whole spice added. Let us know how you get on with Julian's base. I'll do my write up later today or tomorrow once i've tried the curry that's resting in the fridge.
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CH,as you say, the flavour from the whole spice is amazing ,from memory in my 600ml of base (c2go) it was 6 cardamom,4Asian bay,2cloves,2"cinnamon,1star anice and some how Ive got to work out a starting point for 6ltrs ??? If I pro-rata it it's gonna be loads :D
Just to make you smile I bought a coffee machine yesterday and had a couple of brews to try it out,last one was about 11.30pm and now I cant sleep :( typing this at 02.33 am and wide awake :'() atb.
Seeing as the coffee was working a treat i'm surprised you didn't get a base on the go in the early hours ;D. I think i will probably use the quantities you specified for the base as a good starting point. Thinking back to the Zaal experience, only half a chef's spoon of garam masala was added to the bucket of other spices. Az's garam contains the key ingredients mentioned above. In addition, the spices he infused were used more than once so therefore had the capability to continue to provide the smell and taste. I think i'd be wary of upscaling drastically. Just my opinion of course ;D
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prawnsalad,
add more oil to the base and then pour off before blending.
this link is a starting point http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2684.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2684.0)
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Oh dear. You've obviously been around the block a few times like many of us on here. Not sure what advice to give other than sticking to a tried and tested base. As for mix powder, I'm not going to enter the minefield of "it needs to matched to the base". but the technique is very much key. Bottom line, no matter how good your base and mix powder, if the person with the pan and chef's spoon doesn't know what to do with it, the results will be crap. I can only suggest you read the Zaal lesson threads. The findings of the visit may prove helpful or at least provoke some thought. One bonus here, it rarely goes quiet unless somebody releases an e- book ;D
Cheers CH
Yeah been following that like glue!!!!
TBH the Zaal lessons have been a bit of a turning point - managed now to hit the taste with this method - but its not constant weird really how small changes effect the end result ???
Again like all on here I've almost gone full circle with bases/spice mix/matching base etc etc but have recently reduced spicing levels and now concentrating on technique based on the Zaal video's rather than the secret non existant ingredients
Great forum - lots of stuff to learn & pot currently on the hotplate with 3lt Curry 2 Go base - keep you posted
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One thing though,I can't wait for the results of member's attempts of Julian's gravy,albeit it without bhaji oil!!!
Ok, where shall I post the result then??? Where on earth is this up market restaurant Jason?? In Grays or are we talking Orsett Cock ???
Hi there,
Just picked up on the thread about the debate over the seasoned oil.
Firstly, I would just say, there are no rules, and as I mention in my Ebook, "there is no one school of thought or authority on BIR cooking- that's what makes the chase for the taste interesting!
What I will tell you guys is this; of the many different Bengali Chef's that I have had the benefit of knowing and who's kitchens I have spent time in, all of them without exception recycled the oil
2 of them I know didn't add it to the Gravy but they used it all the the curries. The others I know all use recycled oil in the base. The Pakistani kitchens I have been in don't use it (but I have only been in 3 Pakistani chef's kitchens.
If you are still in doubt about this check out a Bengali chef on Youtube called Dipurajah (I know him and have been in his kitchen) watch his videos and note the colour of the oil going into his pan at the frying stage and you will without doubt notice the oil is seasoned. The are a couple of reasons this happens in Takeaway's, 1 is economics, the other is simply a matter of adding another subtle layer of flavour.
Having said all that if someone finds that it really doesn't make all that much difference and they don't like the thought of used oil, then that's fine as I said there are no rules.
Happy Cooking!
Julian
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Hi Julian
Good post!
Thanks for the honest and helpful input regarding the spiced oil. I think everyone really appreciates your openness and it is great to see you doing well. Really enjoyed reading your book BTW, bought it on the day it came out.
Personally I really like your angle of saying, words to the effect of, you have seen it done (re-used / spiced oil) and you know it goes on. There is no hard and fast rule on it. Try it out for yourself and make your own mind up. I don't think anyone can say fairer than that!
Good luck to you!
Regards
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I always use my saved "Onion Bahji Oil" when making a Curry
it's kept in my glass sweet jar it's pure liquid gold
believe me the flavour really does enhance the finished product
to smell the oil is like the smell on any indian establishment
if your looking for that elusive "taste" then this oil helps you greatly !
Cheers
Layne
:D
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I always use my saved "Onion Bahji Oil" when making a Curry
it's kept in my glass sweet jar it's pure liquid gold
believe me the flavour really does enhance the finished product
to smell the oil is like the smell on any indian establishment
if your looking for that elusive "taste" then this oil helps you greatly !
Cheers
Layne
:D
I wish I still had my deep fat fryer which I gave to my daughter :(
I guess I'll have to invest in another as I would like to try this spiced oil out :)
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I dont mind trying the spiced oil
Just fed up of onion bahjis
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I don't have that problem, they just love em at work ;D. Another couple of batches to fry and i reckon the oil will be more than ready to use. I'll then give it a go when starting my phall off and see if it makes a beneficial improvement. In the meantime work will be very happy ;)
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I don't have that problem, they just love em at work ;D. Another couple of batches to fry and i reckon the oil will be more than ready to use. I'll then give it a go when starting my phall off and see if it makes a beneficial improvement. In the meantime work will be very happy ;)
Do you make enough spiced oil to export? ;)
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Do you make enough spiced oil to export? ;)
If that lot at work had their way the days would alternate between meat somosas, onion bhajis and veg samosas, FIVE DAYS A WEEK :o but more on my bhajis a bit later once i've done my chicken jalfrezzi for lunch tomorrow with the rebellious C2G base. Maybe i'll get the better of it tonight ::)
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Do you make enough spiced oil to export? ;)
I wonder if or how C2G or any BIR make enough spiced oil for it to be viable as any kind of essential ingredient in their sauces.
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i've finished reading the book and well pleased with purchase. did not expect anything radical.
things that stood out for me being:
1) never cooked lamb and need to give it a go
2) already knew i need to try the onion sauce for balti
3) bassar mix powder is something i would never of thought of - i use bassar in 2 off dishes already
4) black cumin i use in marinade but now see further use along with nutmeg which i've never used in curry
5) been looking for what was in a fav TA pathia for ages - already use stalk in base but need to try out in dish
6) got to try mango pickle. i use mango chutney in 1 off dish. been disappointed with what i think is "chilli pickle" - bought the mr nagga but not as good as home made stuff
7) check out the rice technique - just felt i'd mastered it myself adopting washing as the way to go - heck
i'll still be skimming froth though and a few other practices - but who cares if it works for you personally then you're not going to change.
really loved the read and background which i can relate to fully. looking forward to more dish recipes in the next book as this is my main area of interest. many thanks to curry2go. book will be as legendary as KD1 and just as influential.
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Hi prawnsalad
LOL ;D Oh No, Old Bhaji oil again, absolute nonsense. :o
Really bad practice, H&S issues and will add nothing of value to your base gravy.
Old Bhaji oil, A Complete Red Herring.
Convincing novices that they have to do this to get the BIR taste is untrue and criminal IMHO.
True Bengali spiced oil on the other hand, has value, as does Bengali spiced water.
Be interesting to here other members views on how much of this c2g ebook is original information
or just stuff that's been compiled and rewritten from others, especially cR0 threads and existing "undercover" publications and videos.
I was amazed to read one review, where they say out of 119 pages, 100 of them
are a biography/history of the author. - Crikey, that's some preface.
c2g is very plausible in his videos for beginners and I think he also believe's his own hype.
He may burst into song at some stage, X factor, Britains got Talent style ;D ;D only kidding ;D
cheers Chewy
i totay agree with chewy makes a very slight differance to your end sauce if just use normal every dave veg oil or sunflower iol you will still get fantastic results
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If I'd have known Julian was going to read this thread I'd have asked how many Bhajis go through a single oil portion.
His post is a testament to spiced oil, suggesting that there are no rules and that some people might like BIR without it but I don't think that applies to any of us.
Julian's videos have completed the story for me, in my first post here 18 months ago http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5074.msg48930#msg48930 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5074.msg48930#msg48930) I suspected oil was the missing necessity and I am now 100% convinced its why those who have got take away gravy samples have said they can taste the killer flavour already.
I so hope there's a way around this as otherwise we are all going to have to be satisfied with second best and that's bitter pill to swallow after so much time and research, at least for me.
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If I'd have known Julian was going to read this thread I'd have asked how many Bhajis go through a single oil portion.
His post is a testament to spiced oil, suggesting that there are no rules and that some people might like BIR without it but I don't think that applies to any of us.
Previous posts suggest otherwise :-\. Some swear by it, others never use it, much restaurant video footage shows fresh oil being used and others veg ghee. It may simply be a case of personal preference and belief as to what it adds.
Julian's videos have completed the story for me, in my first post here 18 months ago http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5074.msg48930#msg48930 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5074.msg48930#msg48930) I suspected oil was the missing necessity and I am now 100% convinced its why those who have got take away gravy samples have said they can taste the killer flavour already.
Us takeaway lovers are familiar with that "smell" and "taste" or that "killer" flavour as you describe it. So, have you tried it yet? If so, what results did you get? Julian does give some guidelines in his book. I've 2ltrs of oil in which i've cooked two full recipes of bhajis. This will be adequate for me to start using, although if i cook more, it will continue to improve but only marginally.
I so hope there's a way around this as otherwise we are all going to have to be satisfied with second best and that's bitter pill to swallow after so much time and research, at least for me.
I have never used bhaji oil. Now i have some, i will give it a go just to see if it provides that "WOW" factor. However, IMHO the general concensous from everything i've read and talking to others, is that it takes more than bhaji oil to provide the "killer flavour" ;). It is about many things all coming together just at the right time and not one simple ingredient. And on one or two occasions i've achieved this, there was no bhaji oil in sight ::)
Let us know how you get on. For you, this may be the missing ingredient having perfected everything else :)
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I suspected oil was the missing necessity and I am now 100% convinced its why those who have got take away gravy samples have said they can taste the killer flavour already.
Hi Prawnsalad,the Zaal reports/videos, from 5 different people, finally answered & confirmed quite a few issues for me & stopped me chasing my tail somewhat
* Base gravy used is not altogether different from many on this site & in publication. Deliberately bland, with no hint of the "taste" :)
* Spiced oil / old oil was not used to make the dishes that were cooked & eaten by the 5- Glad of that, a spoonfull of old oil being the secret taste behind a
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I'm trying to lose flab so maybe I've picked the wrong hobby ;D
But as I'm only cooking for myself and occasionally a couple of mates (SWMBO gets a butter chicken once in a while) if I made batches of bhajis just for the oil I'd end up as big as a brick shthouse :o
I was watching a travel/cooking show a few months ago and they were in a village in Northern India and they were making a massive mutton biryani.
One of the key ingredients is to fry a mass of sliced onions in what looked like a litre of oil until caramelised and almost crispy, drain them off and use that oil as the basic oil for the whole session, sprinkling the onions in as the Biryani was being "layered".
I wonder if this would provide something similar to bhaji oil, maybe use it twice with two batches of onions?
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Hi Chaps,
Been reading and watching the c2g post's with much interest. This one (the spiced/seasoned oil) is the one that's bothering me the most.
I'm never going to make a batch of 40 onion bhajis, so, this particular seasoned oil is possibly unobtainable, for me at least.
Now, this is the part that is really niggling me. The usual suspects/ingredients in onion bhajis: Onions ::), mixed powder, g/g paste, salt, chilli powder and then you have egg, besan, fennel/aniseed, kashmiri masala paste and sometimes potato. I should imagine that the flavour that is imparted into the oil from these ingredients, is quite subtle? Is it really going to make that much difference?
Now, at the start of most curries, in the main, we start with hot (pure) oil, then fry off g/g paste, then add the mixed powder, in goes the tom puree then a spoonfull of base. Just give the pan a tilt and look at the colour of the oil. Is this now not seasoned oil? I would say that it is and I would say that it is far more seasoned and concentrate in flavour than a batch of bhaji oil could provide!
My usuall method is to start off with way too much oil, and then spoon off what I don't want at the end. I filter this and store in the fridge, then use it to start off my next curry. For me, it seems to add a little depth and sweetness but, it wouldn't be the end of the world if I didn't have it. Maybe you guy's would like to adopt that method to produce a more realistic and practical way of getting your seasoned oil?
Ray :)
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Just give the pan a tilt and look at the colour of the oil. Is this now not seasoned oil? I would say that it is and I would say that it is far more seasoned and concentrate in flavour than a batch of bhaji oil could provide!
My usuall method is to start off with way too much oil, and then spoon off what I don't want at the end. I filter this and store in the fridge, then use it to start off my next curry. For me, it seems to add a little depth and sweetness but, it wouldn't be the end of the world if I didn't have it. Maybe you guy's would like to adopt that method to produce a more realistic and practical way of getting your seasoned oil?
But if you used seasoned oil in your main dish, it would add additional flavours to the "seasoned and concentrated" oil which you can prepare each time, so I don't think it can be ruled out for the reason you give.
Your method of skimming off oil for re-use sounds like worth trying but it's presumably not what many BIRs do, and if your final dish has a lot less oil than theirs, it might not be like a BIR either.
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My usuall method is to start off with way too much oil, and then spoon off what I don't want at the end. I filter this and store in the fridge, then use it to start off my next curry. For me, it seems to add a little depth and sweetness but, it wouldn't be the end of the world if I didn't have it. Maybe you guy's would like to adopt that method to produce a more realistic and practical way of getting your seasoned oil?
Ray :)
The best bir aroma ive had to date,( and taste i might add after turning into a Bombay aloo) is from pre-cooking potatoes. Without doubt, its a Homer Simpson drooling smell and flavour you just have to swear out loud to yourself, "thats f*****g beautiful!"
The recipe is from one of Mick's (CBM) quotes
For 2 lb of potatoes,
150 ml of veg oil
1 tennis ball sized finely chopped onion
1 tablespoon of garlic/ginger paste
Cassia bark 2" x 1" piece
1 bay leaf (Asian)
1 tablespoon of panch phoran
1 teaspoon of salt
2 tablespoons of tomato puree watered down 50/50
2 teaspoons of turmeric powder
1 tablespoon of mix powder
Water to cover
I now use this, with the addition of a BIG pinch of methi leaves and 1 litre or more of veg oil to make my spiced oil.
I just make sure i stop the cooking before the potatoes break down, then strain off the oil.
A similar method to you Ray, as in overcompensate and strain off.
Frank ;)
P.s. I tasted my bhaji oil after a good few batches and it was barely flavoured at all, bordering on just old veg oil. In fact, Old chip fat tasted better ;D
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Hi George,
Totally agree, BIR's wouldn't do this however, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them spooning out oil and adding it back to the base?
But if you used seasoned oil in your main dish, it would add additional flavours to the "seasoned and concentrated" oil which you can prepare each time, so I don't think it can be ruled out for the reason you give.
Ok, let me try to explain it another way then; If I was to add say, 5ml of concentrate cordial, to 50 ml of water (Bhaji oil) then I would have a 10:1 mix ratio of liquid but if I added 10ml of concentrate cordial to 50ml of water (my spooned off oil) then I would have a 5:1 mix ratio, much stronger flavour. So if I combined both the 10:1 mix and the 5:1 mix, I would end up with a mix of 7.5:1 which would result in less flavour than my 5:1 oil. If my calculations are correct, I can't see how the addition of the bhaji oil would add anything more to the dish than my method of spooned off oil would.
Wow, maths on my day off, I need a rest now ;D
Ray :)
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I changed the oil yesterday in my deep fat fryer thats cooked about 30 bhajis and nothing else in it over the last month or so. Having strained it then tasted it, it does taste like onion bhajis.
Gonna give it a go next week when i next get currying!
W
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Ok, let me try to explain it another way then; If I was to add say, 5ml of concentrate cordial, to 50 ml of water (Bhaji oil) then I would have a 10:1 mix ratio of liquid but if I added 10ml of concentrate cordial to 50ml of water (my spooned off oil) then I would have a 5:1 mix ratio, much stronger flavour. So if I combined both the 10:1 mix and the 5:1 mix, I would end up with a mix of 7.5:1 which would result in less flavour than my 5:1 oil. If my calculations are correct, I can't see how the addition of the bhaji oil would add anything more to the dish than my method of spooned off oil would.
I'm sorry but my brain hurts even thinking about trying to work my way through your calculation!!
At the end of the day all that matters is whether your, and anyone else's resultant curries taste very good. But we may never know, other than what seems like an inadequate tasting in the middle of a park (Chris' barbecue) because so few people are prepared to get together in each others homes. It's such a shame but, at least it means all the speculation can continue on the forum.
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Hi,
The flavor of what is fried in the oil will impart a flavor into the base.
In the kitchen at the restaurant I remember one day tasting the base gravy I was preparing and noted that it had a strange/different background taste to it.
The base this day was start off with oil from the big thick metal wok thing that sits on the burner and is used to fry samosas, bhajis and all sorts of things, no chips though! It was only then that I realized we had fried tandoori chicken wings in the oil before hand as the chef was making a tandoori wing biryani for the buffet and that was what was coming through in the base, at that stage anyway.
The bases aren't always started with used oil, not sure why the chef said to use that oil that day, perhaps they were low on oil. I asked him about it once and he said sometimes yes and it does add a little flavor, but it is not necessary nor done all the time.
Sometimes, it's just handy, and other times it's perhaps because they are running low, but certainly not critical ingredient. Each week the oil is dumped at least once and sometimes twice, it's not kept too make gravies with.
Cheers,
Mark
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Hi George,
I'm sorry but my brain hurts even thinking about trying to work my way through your calculation!!
He he, fair enough George, nobody should be doing Maths (or MATH if you're an American) over the weekend anyway.! ???
At the end of the day all that matters is whether your, and anyone else's resultant curries taste very good.
Spot on George. I'm visiting Julian at the beginning of June so I will be picking his brains over this seasoned oil. I may even ask Julian to cook me 2 Madras's, one using seasoned oil and the other using pure oil and see what it brings. Only problem being that both dishes will have been cooked using seasoned oiled base but you never know.
Hi Mark,
The base this day was start off with oil from the big thick metal wok thing that sits on the burner and is used to fry samosas, bhajis and all sorts of things, no chips though! It was only then that I realized we had fried tandoori chicken wings in the oil before hand as the chef was making a tandoori wing biryani for the buffet and that was what was coming through in the base, at that stage anyway.
Yes, totally agree, when using a wok, the flavour from the previous dish could come through, although it will be subtle. The reason for this is, a carbon steel or iron wok should never be washed using a detergent or scourer. It should just be rinsed in hot water, dried off over the flame, then re-coated with new oil. This practise helps build up the seasoning on the wok know as "the Patina or Wok Hay" This is basically harmless carbon deposits created when the wok is used at high heat, and so it usually traps some flavour of the previous dish. A new wok can often produce a 'metallic' taste in the food until the Patina is in place.
Incidentally, Tandoori Chicken wings sound awesome. I'm assuming that the chef would remove the skin and tips from the wings beforehand?
Ray :)
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In the kitchen at the restaurant I remember one day tasting the base gravy I was preparing and noted that it had a strange/different background taste to it.
Mark - I find your comments so interesting, coming direct from a real-life kitchen and probably with less to hide or disguise than most. If restaurants sometimes use different oils it could be one reason why curries from the same place vary between tasting fabulous to me one day, and rather lacklustre at other times. I often thought it might be that the main chef had a day off, but perhaps there are several other variables, like the sort of "production inconsistencies" you mention.
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Honestly the spiced oil makes no difference at all. I cooked 30 bhajis for a dinner party and thought I'd use the left over oil to see if it made any difference which it didn't. I cooked a dish without the spiced oil and it was better. Don't be fooled people.
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Hi Ray,
The chicken wings were marinated in yogurt, ginger, garlic and vinegar for a day, and then in the tandoori marinade for another 8 hours.
They were then thrown into the deep fryer with skin on. He got a big bag of them from the supplier, probably isn't a big demand for chicken wings around the place.
I was a bit skeptical at first as to how they would taste but they were incredible. Kind of KFC meets India, was lucky that there was any left to go into the biryani to be honest they were that good.
The biriyani was served with 3 wings per serve.
Cheers,
Mark
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Hi George,
Yes, it's very interesting in there. I'm out of the kitchen at the moment waiting for the new restaurant setup to be finished.
I've actually found it the other way round though, in that what I thought would make big inconsistencies haven't. For example some days the spice delivery might not have come through. We use whole spices in the gravies, in the onion gravy for example there's cloves, big/brown cardamom, cinnamon sticks and curry leaves. The base gravy missing 2 or three of these items would have tasted quite different I thought, but to me it didn't and still produced great dishes.
That being said though, the chef always tastes and adjusts if the flavor is not quite right. I mentioned that as being one of the big secrets, ie tasting, but I don't think I fully conveyed what I meant. The chef will taste it and if it is not quite right he knows what needs to be added to correct it. I can taste the gravy and know that it is not quite right, but have no idea as to what/how to fix, I can try things but it would probably go around in a big circle whereas he will say add this or that etc and get it right.
Cheers,
Mark
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not wanting to embroil this bhaji oil yes or no discussion. i've only tried it once and with hindsight the oil i used was very strong and well outside the usable envelope for curry. the bhaji oil was taken from my 2nd fryer which is used for bhajis and fried chicken. it really did make a difference. in fact it was far too much for me and put me off. i got a sort of x2 over my normal hot frying result.
the other factor for me is that my local TA start every dish from oil off the top of the base. i've never experimented further with bhajis oil.
it's also very true that you can produce a very good curry from plain oil - i've had no choice to do this on many occasion when i've run out of reclaimed.
the difference between plain oil and my reclaimed oil is not huge but there is a difference. the oil whether bhajis or reclaimed has to have enough strength though to work.
i'm currently revisiting this. in the past i found this strength improved if leftover oil was carried forward into the next base. at the time i was limited by the life of the oil in the fridge and timing of my next base. i'm now switched on more on what will freeze.
what i'm trying to understand better is which works best: increase oil strength in base batch or permanently carry forward into the next (the sourdough principle). it's all good fun.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/946555918288f5a90d43619aaa173fbb.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#946555918288f5a90d43619aaa173fbb.jpg)
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I did an experiment this morning to make some seasoned oil. Heated about 600ml of Rice Bran Oil (very light flavoured high smoke point) with a good chunk of Indian Ghee and about half a cup of mustard oil, then deep fried a finely sliced medium onion until caramelised. Then I removed the onion "crisps" and when the oil cooled slightly, put in about 1/4 tsp of garam masala. When cold I funneled it off into a 750ml heavy glass Aussie Beer bottle, which by good fortune it just fills.
Already tasting awesome, my home brew Monday pissbuddy ::) will be around for a few pints this afternoon so I'll reheat the oil and actually run up some onion bhajis, then readjust back to 750ml.
That should sort it out I reckon, ;D - made a heap of dry mix this morning plus about 300ml of garlic ginger paste, all to C-2-go's specs. Going to marinate some chicken breasts so tomorrow is the day
Mark, off topic but I got a pack of that Geeta Medium madras, very very interesting - As well as the usual Cumin et al it has all sorts of minor unexpected stuff like black pepper, star anise, fennel, nutmeg and smells incredibly complex.
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That should sort it out I reckon, ;D - made a heap of dry mix this morning plus about 300ml of garlic ginger paste, all to C-2-go's specs. Going to marinate some chicken breasts so tomorrow is the day
Sounds like you've been busy Bb. Looking forward to hearing the results after all your prep mate ;)
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Will report for sure
I did onion bhajis to C2go's recipe and I can't even begin to .............. :o
They were half sized as I wasn't using a pukka deep fryer. My usually talkative drinking mate was just making some low growling noises as he ate.
Now to get the pressure cooker out and make the next lot of base gravy for tomorrow, using the oil. Fortunately I have a shtload of Coriander in the herb garden :)
How we suffer for our art 8)
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7) check out the rice technique - just felt i'd mastered it myself adopting washing as the way to go - heck
i tried the method "pressure cooker" - of course i have not and used my pan with lid.
did not work. rice was hard.
i was happily going to give another go. last was 4min fry, 4 min heat-up and 10 min stand. gut feeling was increase the heat-up to say 6min and it might do it. the boss has overruled and i'm going back to the old method.