Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Trainee Chefs / Beginners Questions => Topic started by: Cory Ander on January 09, 2012, 09:35 AM
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Can those, that allude to knowing, please elaborate on what they understand to be the "bhoona" (or "bhuna", or bhunao" technique that is used in BIR (and traditional) Indian cooking?
To my mind, it's a term generally applied to the technique whereby some powdered spices (sometimes in a liquid medium,) are fried in oil (or ghee), at the start of cooking a main dish, to release their flavours.
What other views are there please?
I think it would be very useful, to many members, to be aware of this as a "cooking technique" used in BIR (and traditional) Indian cooking.
I reckon is would be very helpful to many members if we could specify:
- what it is?
- why it is used?
- when it is used?
- how it is used?
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I think its stir fry or saute, not necessarily using spices. Could be peppers/ onion / tomato / garlic .before the meat is added
elw
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Cory, I agree with your definition.
The term 'Bhoona' there are various ways of spelling the word loosely translates from Hindi as 'frying spices or spice paste in hot oil'. It should therefore be considered a 'process'.
What is it?
A process of frying spices in either powdered or paste form in hot oil.
Why is it used?
To extract natural oils and flavours and to cook out any rawness from the spices themselves.
When is it used?
Usually at the start of the cooking process and before any other ingredients are added.
How is it used?
Usually in one of two ways -
1/ By adding the spices or spice paste to hot oil and frying till the spices become fragrant and lose their rawness but without burning. This is one of the reasons spice masalas or spice mixes are mixed with water into a paste before being added to hot oil - to stop the spices burning.
2/ By adding the spices or spice paste to an onion/garlic/ginger puree that has already been prefried in hot oil and frying in the same way to release the spice flavours.
Both 'bhoona' techniques can be used, the main differences between them is the margin of error between burning the spices is less with the second method than the first.
The second method is therefore easier for new cooks to start with until experience tells them when the spices are cooked correctly through texture, feel and smell when they can graduate on to the more difficult first method.
That's my definition of the term Bhoona process.
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glad thats been cleared up then
;D
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glad thats been cleared up then
That's just my definition of it, no doubt someone will come along and disagree with me like they usually do ::)
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glad thats been cleared up then
That's just my definition of it, no doubt someone will come along and disagree with me like they usually do ::)
I wont disagree - you got it about right there i reckon
best, Rich
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That's just my definition of it, no doubt someone will come along and disagree with me like they usually do ::)
Sorry to disappoint you Spicey, but one can't disagree with absolute fact, as you have comprehensively outlined in your understanding of the processes of "bhuning"
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Here's an strange one (slightly off track) but interesting.
i was talking to a friend of mine last night, a girl from kuwait.
i finally got her mothers recipe for Machboos Laham with Haashoo and Dacoos.(her english isnt too good, so forgive the spellings)
Part of the process of the meal (haashoo) is they add chopped onions to a dry pan with no oil or water. ???
They partly burn the onions into the pan for a few mins before deglazing with tiny amounts of stock from the meat. then continued with the spices and oil.
I asked why, but shes only a kid and doesnt cook herself. She didn't know and will ask her mum today.
Has anyone seen or heard of this dry fry technique before?
Frank. ;)
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Cory, I agree with your definition.
The term 'Bhoona' there are various ways of spelling the word loosely translates from Hindi as 'frying spices or spice paste in hot oil'. It should therefore be considered a 'process'.
What is it?
A process of frying spices in either powdered or paste form in hot oil.
Why is it used?
To extract natural oils and flavours and to cook out any rawness from the spices themselves.
When is it used?
Usually at the start of the cooking process and before any other ingredients are added.
How is it used?
Usually in one of two ways -
1/ By adding the spices or spice paste to hot oil and frying till the spices become fragrant and lose their rawness but without burning. This is one of the reasons spice masalas or spice mixes are mixed with water into a paste before being added to hot oil - to stop the spices burning.
2/ By adding the spices or spice paste to an onion/garlic/ginger puree that has already been prefried in hot oil and frying in the same way to release the spice flavours.
Both 'bhoona' techniques can be used, the main differences between them is the margin of error between burning the spices is less with the second method than the first.
The second method is therefore easier for new cooks to start with until experience tells them when the spices are cooked correctly through texture, feel and smell when they can graduate on to the more difficult first method.
That's my definition of the term Bhoona process.
The lack of the proper use of techniques such as this, in lower quality bir's, may go some way to explaining the dishes all tasting very similar. Bhoona/bhuna dishes all seem to be 'wet' nowadays, the dry intense flavoured ones seem to have almost disappeared.
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The lack of the proper use of techniques such as this, in lower quality bir's, may go some way to explaining the dishes all tasting very similar. Bhoona/bhuna dishes all seem to be 'wet' nowadays, the dry intense flavoured ones seem to have almost disappeared.
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The term 'bhoona' as being used here refers to a process, that process being the frying of spices in hot oil. The dish Bhuna is derived from the same word but refers to a particular dish rather than the process. In much the same way that Masala, which means 'spices' in Hindi or simply 'spice mix' is used in the dish 'Chicken Tikka Masala'.
I see bhoona, buna, bhuna, sometimes on the same menu, which is the process & which is the dish? ???
Korma, I was told is traditionally a cooking method of braising :-\
ELW
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I think that's an excellent definition Spicey.
I only wish that those that allude to "knowing better" would also respond...you know, in the spirit of the forum and for the benefit of all..... ::)
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I think that's an excellent definition Spicey.
I only wish that those that allude to "knowing better" would also respond...you know, in the spirit of the forum and for the benefit of all..... ::)
Unfortunately, I fear that many members would prefer to keep their 'understanding' of the definition of 'Bhoona' to themselves, in fear of ridicule should their 'understanding' differ somewhat to both yours and Spicey's excellent definitions.
Such a shame...!
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I think that's an excellent definition Spicey.
I only wish that those that allude to "knowing better" would also respond...you know, in the spirit of the forum and for the benefit of all..... ::)
Unfortunately, I fear that many members would prefer to keep their 'understanding' of the definition of 'Bhoona' to themselves, in fear of ridicule should their 'understanding' differ somewhat to both yours and Spicey's excellent definitions.
Such a shame...!
The "shame" is that they appear to ridicule others for not understanding (or doing) it, but aren't prepared to elaborate for the benefit of all members!
I'm sure that if you, or others, have other definitions, or explanations, then we'd all be pleased to hear it?
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I think that's an excellent definition Spicey.
I only wish that those that allude to "knowing better" would also respond...you know, in the spirit of the forum and for the benefit of all..... ::)
Unfortunately, I fear that many members would prefer to keep their 'understanding' of the definition of 'Bhoona' to themselves, in fear of ridicule should their 'understanding' differ somewhat to both yours and Spicey's excellent definitions.
Such a shame...!
The "shame" is that they appear to ridicule others for not understanding (or doing) it, but aren't prepared to elaborate for the benefit of all members!
I'm sure that if you, or others, have other definitions, or explanations, then we'd all be pleased to hear it?
No CA, I don't offer any other definition as your's and Spicey's definitions are absolutely perfect in every way. ;)
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No CA, I don't offer any other definition as your's and Spicey's definitions are absolutely perfect in every way. ;)
Sorry Ray, that seems, to me, to be a rather pathetic and weak response to the original question ???
It's hardly going to aid other members understanding of "important techniques", now, is it?
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In my 50 Great Curries of India cookbook I think the author also describes a bhuna process as using the oil, spices and meat together with no extra water. In this case it is the meat itself that is limiting the oil temperature from burning the spices.
Paul
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No CA, I don't offer any other definition as your's and Spicey's definitions are absolutely perfect in every way. ;)
Sorry Ray, that seems, to me, to be a rather pathetic and weak response to the original question ???
It's hardly going to aid other members understanding of "important techniques", now, is it?
Bloody hell CA, your hard to please. How can I improve on what you have already said, what is it that you want me to say?
Ray ::)
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No CA, I don't offer any other definition as your's and Spicey's definitions are absolutely perfect in every way. ;)
Sorry Ray, that seems, to me, to be a rather pathetic and weak response to the original question ???
It's hardly going to aid other members understanding of "important techniques", now, is it?
Bloody hell CA, your hard to please. How can I improve on what you have already said, what is it that you want me to say?
Ray ::)
Good question Ray,
I'm sorry if I read your above response as being very facetious and as largely nonconstructive ???
But, I would prefer that, instead of appearing to argue the toss, for the sake of it, you encourage others to contribute their opinions on my original post in this thread (and in the spirit in which my thread was intended). :)
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CA,
I wasn't trying to argue the toss, just offering a reason as to why many would be reluctant to post in these threads.
This forum is a great source of information and is extremely useful to experienced and novice cooks alike. Where the forum lets itself down, and by 'itself' I mean ourselves, is our sometimes 'over the top, vicious, sarcastic, belittling and totally repugnant responses to other members just because we've missinterpreted their post or their opinions differ somewhat. I'm as guilty of this as anyone for which I'm not proud of.
Ray
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Where the forum lets itself down, and by 'itself' I mean ourselves, is our sometimes 'over the top, vicious, sarcastic, belittling and totally repugnant responses to other members just because we've missinterpreted their post or their opinions differ somewhat
But, to be honest, Ray, there WAS none of that in this thread, was there? Well, until....?? ;)
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In my 50 Great Curries of India cookbook I think the author also describes a bhuna process as using the oil, spices and meat together with no extra water. In this case it is the meat itself that is limiting the oil temperature from burning the spices.
Paul
Thats whats missing from this thread PaulP, sources of the definition, I don't remember where i read it was sauteing using small amounts of liquid. Looking it up on the web would be pointless. How these processes relate to bir in 2011 is another question.
This thread could run for years
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Can those, that allude to knowing, please elaborate on what they understand to be the "bhoona" (or "bhuna", or bhunao" technique that is used in BIR (and traditional) Indian cooking?
You are missing a closing parenthesis.
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I came across this thread while searching for something else here. I know it
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Brilliant work.
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Prospero ;D
I have not posted on this site for a long time,but feel I MUST respond to your post here
I agree and understand that it is the techniques and understanding of cooking spices etc that will produce a good result.
It still remains that lots here still believe in" magic ingredients"
They don't get the results they want frustration then takes over,rudeness. silly abusive posts etc Hours wasted on forums instead of learning how to cook good currys
I lived at Hanwell for some years and learned loads from chefs in Southall,good shopping there as well.
Ii hope some others read and learn from your refreshing post and thanks for sharing the links ;D
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Prospero ;D
I have not posted on this site for a long time,but feel I MUST respond to your post here
I agree and understand that it is the techniques and understanding of cooking spices etc that will produce a good result.
It still remains that lots here still believe in" magic ingredients"
They don't get the results they want frustration then takes over,rudeness. silly abusive posts etc Hours wasted on forums instead of learning how to cook good currys
I lived at Hanwell for some years and learned loads from chefs in Southall,good shopping there as well.
Ii hope some others read and learn from your refreshing post and thanks for sharing the links ;D
At least he gave credit ;)
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13262.msg109869.html#msg109869 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13262.msg109869.html#msg109869)
And it is an interesting read Prospero
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Very useful info Prosperous, thanks for the very comprehensive post.
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I have not posted on this site for a long time,but feel I MUST respond to your post here
Welcome back, Bos nobilis !
** Phil.
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[ moderated - personal insult on one or more forum members]
At least he gave credit ;)
I never claimed it was my own work :o I altered some words so as not to annoy the writer
It is a good lesson and works to improve our currys etc
So good it should be here for all to use
Some members like to keep things for there own reasons.Its been on the web for some time now its here
So please no more tug-nut throwing chimps :)
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I never claimed it was my own work :o I altered some words so as not to annoy the writer
I do apologise, i'm sure the original writer is fine with that. :o ::)
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Mmm, i'm surprised not to have seen a "report to moderator" message come in after an ad hominem attack ??? Maybe it only works when certain people are involved ::)
Excellent post Prospero. Thank you for the insight and for posting links to the orginal material and other related reading for our benefit. I think your post's content could be considered as a "golden nugget" of information, invaluable to all those on the BIR quest, old and new.
Something similar was posted on the site before but unfortunately for reasons better known to the poster , he omitted to name the original source and no credit was not given to its author :o
I actually read this elsewhere too :o It not only explains why technique is so important, but it goes on to explain the science behind it which helps people understand what is actually going on in the frying pan and why the results are often not what was desired :( . All those that aspire to cook BIR curry IMO will benefit from reading it more than once :)
In fact, i think I'd better read it several times over to see where i've gone wrong recently with my vindaloo :(
And i really don't think we need to clutter up this thread with what is written in another, do you? I will delete those remarks so that we can continue to discuss the the title of the topic, rather than past events. If you disagree, you have a PM button to use ;)
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Great read Prospero, cheers for sharing that :)