Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Base Chat => Topic started by: prawnsalad on January 08, 2012, 12:07 AM
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I've been battling this particular flavour since my first attempts at BIR and if anything it's intensified over time, although not unpleasant in its self it overpowers everything else so whatever I make always tastes the same.
I'm not using anything unusual, just the core ingredients listed in most base sauces found on here. It develops during the main cooking stage of the base after I've added water, leaving it to simmer for about an hour getting stronger right up to the end dish and isn't easy to describe other than to say it has something in common with that out of place taste you get with cheap potato salad which I always assume is down to preservatives as it clearly does not belong there.
Reading a recent thread on slow cooking for 6+ hours I was hoping it was because the base needed to mature but having just made some for a Prawn Madras it's as strong as ever.
I used:
Sunflower oil, brown cooking onions, green pepper, vine tomato, celery, spring onion, potato, carrot, garlic, red chilli, radish and coriander from a plant.
I fry onion, garlic and ginger first, add water, boil, then simmer it for half an hour before blending and pouring over the above loosely chopped veg followed by water.
After 45 minutes I add plum tomatoes, turmeric, coriander, paprika and cumin following SNS?s Saffron method by which time it's by far the dominant odour, noticeable as much in smell as in taste.
I know it's a stab in the dark but if anyone can advise I'd appreciate it.
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Hi,
Celery is the one that stands out for me.
that can easily dominate most flavours and a hard one to balance.
anymore than 1/2 to 1 stick in any sauce i make(2-3ltr) whether it be curry or any other cuisine can overpower the other flavours.
Frank. ;)
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Celery is the one that stands out for me. that can easily dominate most flavours and a hard one to balance.
anymore than 1/2 to 1 stick in any sauce i make whether it be curry or any other cuisine can overpower the other flavours.
I would go along with that, and I would jettison the radish to boot.
** Phil.
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Hey prawnsalad
Gee this is spooky but before I read your ingredients I was thinking - mm there must be a stand-out ingredient that's causing this - and there it was - celery! I'd agree that radish is not needed either. I'd also have to question the use of spring onions when you have standard onions there anyway. It seems to me that with celery, radish and spring onions you need look no further for your overpowering flavour.
Have a look at CA's recent "simple base" and I'll bet you'll find it has gone.
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Hi Prawnsalad,
I would agree with both Phil and DP, celery seems to be the stand out culprit. I say this because when I make a ragu, I usually use half a stick of finely chopped celery along with onion and carrot but, when I've used the whole stick, I have found a 'bitter' note to the sauce. It took many many attempts for me to come up with this conclusion and so now, I stick to a half or less, and the bitterness is no longer present.
You may want to try to really knock it back to basics, using just onion, carrot, garlic and green pepper as you base veggies, and proceed with your spices and tinned tomatoes as normal. Then, on each subsequent batch, introduce one of your other veggies, and see if the taste comes back? That way, you may be able to pinpoint what it is that is giving you this unwanted flavour?
Hope that helps,
Ray :)
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Hi Prawnsalad,
I would agree with both Phil and DP, celery seems to be the stand out culprit. I say this because when I make a ragu, I usually use half a stick of finely chopped celery along with onion and carrot but, when I've used the whole stick, I have found a 'bitter' note to the sauce. It took many many attempts for me to come up with this conclusion and so now, I stick to a half or less, and the bitterness is no longer present.
You may want to try to really knock it back to basics, using just onion, carrot, garlic and green pepper as you base veggies, and proceed with your spices and tinned tomatoes as normal. Then, on each subsequent batch, introduce one of your other veggies, and see if the taste comes back? That way, you may be able to pinpoint what it is that is giving you this unwanted flavour?
Hope that helps,
Ray :)
Yeah I figure that's the only way, so time consuming though...
Out of the veg I was thinking Carrot, green pepper or Celery. Now I will ditch the Celery first.
Thanks.
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Hi prawnsalad,
Out of the veg I was thinking Carrot, green pepper or Celery. Now I will ditch the Celery first.
I would defo ditch the celery first. Carrot should offer a sweet note, whereas the pepper should offer a savoury note. To be fair, so should celery but too much will kill it IMO. To be honest though, you really don't need either! I have developed a very useful base without using any veg other than onions. I'm not for one minute suggesting that you ditch this base altogether, especially if you have spent time developing it but have a read of this> http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0) and you will see where I'm coming from.
Ray :)
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[H]ave a read of this> http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0) and you will see where I'm coming from.
Nah, read it five times, and /nowhere/ does it say you come from Manchester. :)
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[H]ave a read of this> http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0) and you will see where I'm coming from.
Nah, read it five times, and /nowhere/ does it say you come from Manchester. :)
Ha harrr, but it does Mr Taylor, it says so in my signature :P
Ray (From Manchester) ;)
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Ha harrr, but it does Mr Taylor, it says so in my signature :P Ray (From Manchester) ;)
Ah, but displaying signatures is a forum option which I have turned off !
** Phil (from a tiny hamlet somewhere in Deepest Kent).
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Fair enough,
Ray (from a massive urban nightmare in Manchester :()
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Fair enough,
Ray (from a massive urban nightmare in Manchester :()
It's the people that come from these towns I feel sorry for.... ;D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/legacygallery/gallery-8861/Funny-town-names.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/legacygallery/gallery-8861/Funny-town-names.html)
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I would think you may want to ditch the celery and radish!!!
How long have you been using these 2 ingredients in your base curry - asking cause me thinks its unusual but everyone makes their own base / curry the way they like it
best, Rich
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Hi prawnsalad
Probably (celery, spring onion, red chilli, radish) causing your problem, you don't need these in a base.
Try this one, simple and never fails.
Pressure Cooker Curry Base (cost about 3 quid to make)
I use a 4 litre pressure cooker and I usually make 3 litres of concentrated finished base.
Thinned right down with water will make 5/6 litres.
If you haven't got a pressure cooker, simply boil for 45 mins to an hour, covered.
4 big Onions.
1 medium carrot,
1 medium green capsicum .
A quarter of white cabbage.
A handful of fresh coriander.
Small bulb of Garlic.
3 inch finger piece of fresh ginger.
Quarter of a tube of tomato puree.
1tbsp of salt.
1tsp of Haldi.
1tsp of Mixed Powder.
Put the pressure cooker on medium heat, add 150ml of veg oil, add ginger & garlic
quickly stir fry and cook out (1minute)
Add all the veg, the pan should be just over three quarter full and 90% Onion.
Add quarter of a tube of tomato puree and pour on 500ml or 2 mugs of boiling water and 1tbsp of salt.
Clamp the lid on and turn the heat up high, until the pressure peaks.
Once under pressure, turn the heat down and time it for 30 minutes.
Switch off, transfer to sink and run the cold water on the cooker for a minute
then tip the valve to let the pressure escape.
Open and stir in 1tsp of Haldi and Mixed Powder, then stick blend smooth.
Now transfer the sauce to a clean curry pot,
(At this stage I pass the sauce through a food mill/sieve, old school) - optional
add three cups of boiling water, mix well and bring it back to the boil and cover.
"Important, leave on a high simmer, like a rolling boil."
A froth will start to appear. skim the froth off and discard, this will occur three or four times in 10 minutes
You will know when the sauce is ready, when the froth stops and the oil separates
and starts rising to the surface, skim any oil scum off and discard.
That's it', a lightly spiced Curry Base 'Garabi'
To make the mixed powder for this:-
2 tsp Madras Curry Powder
2 tsp Turmeric Powder
1 tsp Coriander Powder
1 tsp Cumin Powder
1 tsp Kashmiri Chilli Powder
0.5 tsp Garam Masala
cheers Chewytikka
Watch Video here : http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5606.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5606.0)
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Hi Prawnsalad,
I have to agree with Chewy here, you don't need any of those ingredients for a base sauce.
Another base sauce which is so simple to make and never fails me, I use this base the most is Taz's base.
See the recipe here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0)
Good luck :)
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Hi Prawnsalad
I agree with the other posts here regarding celery and all the other veg, you just dont need it. I used to think carrot and cabbage was essential for sweetness and savoury flavour but since using chewitikkas method of whole onions and seiving I now know it's not needed. I still add coriander stalks, 1tbspn dried methi, 1 green pepper and 2 tspn whole cumin seeds etc to the initial boil and copied chewytikka's method post blend. My best results have included boiling a whole chicken in this initial boil (obviously removing it before blending) After seiving I now add 2 black cardamons, 6 green cardamons, 4 cloves and a small bit of cassia for the final 1/2 hour boil while skimming scum. I keep thinning it to maintain about 6ltr of base. Its the closest I can get without the re using oil that goes on in commercial kitchens.
The long initial boil to bring out the sweetness in the onions really works.
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After seiving I now add 2 black cardamons, 6 green cardamons, 4 cloves and a small bit of cassia for the final 1/2 hour boil while skimming scum. I keep thinning it to maintain about 6ltr of base. Its the closest I can get without the re using oil that goes on in commercial kitchens.
The long initial boil to bring out the sweetness in the onions really works.
There has been some discussion (and of course disagreement ;D) about whole spice being added to the base. In your opinion, does it improve the end result and is this discernable in the finished dish do you think.
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Thanks for the recommendations, just to say having made a fresh attempt on Saturday things have improved.
Not the first time I had seen this video but I watched again and took two things from it:
1. No Celery
2. I ditched chopping / frying the onion, ginger and garlic adding it to the pot wholesale instead while doubling the onions.
Definitely got rid of that taste and now I'm wondering if it was down to frying rather than the celery? Either way as pointed out here celery isn't thought to be widely used in BIRs anyhow.
But best of all and completely unexpectedly I have managed to create a very familiar smell I'm used to getting from real TA's, it really hung overnight in the room and smelt exactly like one I'd bought the next day.
I could also detect this substance in the curry but its flavour was extremely weak.
Hadn't added anything new either.
Thanks again to CT for his advice.
Hi prawnsalad
Probably (celery, spring onion, red chilli, radish) causing your problem, you don't need these in a base.
Try this one, simple and never fails.
Pressure Cooker Curry Base (cost about 3 quid to make)
I use a 4 litre pressure cooker and I usually make 3 litres of concentrated finished base.
Thinned right down with water will make 5/6 litres.
If you haven't got a pressure cooker, simply boil for 45 mins to an hour, covered.
4 big Onions.
1 medium carrot,
1 medium green capsicum .
A quarter of white cabbage.
A handful of fresh coriander.
Small bulb of Garlic.
3 inch finger piece of fresh ginger.
Quarter of a tube of tomato puree.
1tbsp of salt.
1tsp of Haldi.
1tsp of Mixed Powder.
Put the pressure cooker on medium heat, add 150ml of veg oil, add ginger & garlic
quickly stir fry and cook out (1minute)
Add all the veg, the pan should be just over three quarter full and 90% Onion.
Add quarter of a tube of tomato puree and pour on 500ml or 2 mugs of boiling water and 1tbsp of salt.
Clamp the lid on and turn the heat up high, until the pressure peaks.
Once under pressure, turn the heat down and time it for 30 minutes.
Switch off, transfer to sink and run the cold water on the cooker for a minute
then tip the valve to let the pressure escape.
Open and stir in 1tsp of Haldi and Mixed Powder, then stick blend smooth.
Now transfer the sauce to a clean curry pot,
(At this stage I pass the sauce through a food mill/sieve, old school) - optional
add three cups of boiling water, mix well and bring it back to the boil and cover.
"Important, leave on a high simmer, like a rolling boil."
A froth will start to appear. skim the froth off and discard, this will occur three or four times in 10 minutes
You will know when the sauce is ready, when the froth stops and the oil separates
and starts rising to the surface, skim any oil scum off and discard.
That's it', a lightly spiced Curry Base 'Garabi'
To make the mixed powder for this:-
2 tsp Madras Curry Powder
2 tsp Turmeric Powder
1 tsp Coriander Powder
1 tsp Cumin Powder
1 tsp Kashmiri Chilli Powder
0.5 tsp Garam Masala
cheers Chewytikka
Watch Video here : http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5606.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5606.0)
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Hi prawnsalad
Really pleased your getting closer to what your after, and the unwanted flavour has gone. Result ;)
Glad I've been of some help and inspired you to cook.
I just did my base last night and to give that extra 70's old school flavour, I added 2 Tej Patta, 3 Black Cardamons
a finger of Cassia Bark and a Chicken Leg Quarter (50p) Discarded these after the initial boil and before blending.
Kept the TomPuree the same, but upped my mix powders to 2 Tbs.
The resulting base is still neutral enough to make any curry from, but is more of a pleasant curry in its own right.
Give this a go, the next time you need some base. really nice. ;)
cheers Chewy
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Hi curryhell
I have found that adding the whole spices does increase the depth of flavour but it needs to be done carefully and only for short periods of time. This might sound daft but I need to keep smelling the base to make sure that I cant smell any individual spice. Most commonly the cassia is the first to make itself obvious so I fish it out if I smell it. The cardamons and cloves have never really become distinct. I once put a single star anise in with 6ltr of base and had to get it out after 10 minutes as it was becoming really obvious so now I don't use it.
If used sparingly the whole spices are not detectable in the finished base. I make a lot of traditional curries as well and I would put the same amount into a small pot of curry to feed 4-6 people so no real surprise it's not noticeable in a pot that would feed 25. It's similar to adding half a block of coconut cream before sieving, you would never be able to pinpoint the taste but it adds to the depth.