Curry Recipes Online
Supplementary Recipes (Curry Powders, Curry Paste, Restaurant Spice Mixes) => Supplementary Recipes Chat => Topic started by: Blondie on January 23, 2006, 02:19 PM
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Hi all,
back in the days of in2curry there was a woman there that taught Indian Restaurant style Cooking. From memory, I think her name was Janet. She claimed that one of the main ingredients used in her cookery was spiced oil, which I believe she taught how to make. Did anyone do the course with this lady? was it of any use? and the main point of this post, could the spiced oil be the way to get the taste without re-using oil many times?
Just a thought,
Cheers all,
Blondie
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Ghanna also gave a recipe for spiced oil on this site, here it is:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=190.msg1069#msg1069
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And here's the woman off in2curry : http://theboustons.users.btopenworld.com/
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I don't believe it - a correspondance course for ?50 + post and packing!!! In other words an e-document just like many others. Would you pay ?50 in a bookshop for a small number of recipes like that? I hoped it might be actual cooking lessons like Pat Chapman or some restaurants offer. Also, it's a pity the guestbook doesn't have any commendations for the 'course', but only web references from porn sites and the like, at least on the first couple of pages.
Regards
George
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I bought the course
She seems to be a very pleasant lady
I got a folder with word document recipes in
I don't want to give her recipes out, as that seems to be, how she makes a living
She does use a spiced oil, made in exactly the way as I reported from restaurants
I didn't think this was right at the time
But I eventually found out, that this is exactly what curry houses do
It is the oil from the boiled curry gravy
I think all her meals use it
There are a few other tricks she uses
Needless to say I wasn't totally happy with my results
But, I never am
Even when shown by a proper restaurant chef
She does a workshop on a Saturday
So you can gets a hands on tutorial
I liked her
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Tailor made Indian Cookery lessons by REN. This was a lady I emailed and she charged ?150 for a days course, I think it was 4 or 5 dishes and it was authentic not bir. This lady put a post in the ebooks section I think if I remember rightly. Quite a lot of money for one day don't you think in comparison to a course sent in a folder with quite a few more recipes, online support and the expertise of being a teacher! Maybe she does one to one courses too. I am also convinced that spiced oil is the way to go as I have been using it for sometime having excellent results to the standards of bir's.
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I was chatting to an asian friend of mine about spiced oil, he said he uses it all the time. Now he eats curry and other asian food everyday so i asked him for the recipe and method:
He fries in 2tbsp of oil a pinch of black mustard seeds, 3 bayleaves, 3 black cardamom, 1 stick of cassia bark (also called cinnamon but this was the bark variety) for 5 mins on medium heat before he adds the onions and the rest of the ingredients.
Thats the authentic way! but i wonder if we used that method for pre-cooking the onions, then we could use the oil and pre-cooked onions to the pan when we start our bir dishes, The bir way has to have some relation to the authentic way of cooking.
Authentic way - fry spices in oil then continue making the dish
bir way - fry spices in oil then cool and use for later when customer comes in
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Hi John,
That sounds like it is a "Tarka" where some spices are fried prior to either cooking a dish from the start or adding this spiced oil at a later stage. Does your friend suggest this is what the BIR uses as frying those spices in 2 tablespoons of oil wouldn't give enough oil to play with especially in the restaurant setting.
It might be worth increasing the amount of spices into say a litre of oil and giving this a try.
Ray
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It is a tarka. The whole point of spiced oil is that it is taking on the other flavours from the spice mix, onions, garlic/ginger, tomato puree/paste etc as well and so you are getting an oil that is flavoured with a curry flavour/red in colour before you start making your curry. As soon as the oil hits the pan there you have the aroma that comes with a curry.
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It is a tarka.? The whole point of spiced oil is that it is taking on the other flavours from the spice mix,? onions, garlic/ginger, tomato puree/paste etc as well and so you are getting an oil that is flavoured with a curry flavour/red in colour before you start making your curry.
Hi CQ,
So are you saying this method of spicing individual portions of oil is relevant to the BIR curry and is a method they might use?
I know many asian cooks use this method at home. I have just been watching the Madhur Jaffrey series on Sky and she "tarka's quite a lot. Just quickly stir fries a few whole spices like Bay Leaves, Cinnamon Stick, Cumin Seeds, Curry Leaves in a few tablespoons of oil and pours it straight into the finished curry at the end of cooking.
However, from discussions made on this site the spiced oil is more what most re-claim from the base cooking process and derives it's flavour from the spices in the base itself rather than being a fresh oil infused with whole spices.
Having said that Bruce Edwards uses a tarka which he says improves flavour.
Here it is:-
The Tarka
Not essential but he says improves flavour
Heat 5 fl oz?s Veg Oil in large pot
Add 1 Tbsp Tom Puree, stir for 1 min
Add the Curry Gravy, stir well
Bring to boil and simmer until Oil rises to surface
Stop stirring to allow Oil to separate
It will turn slightly brown
Skim off froth from top a few times
Use at once or it will keep a week in the fridge
( I am assuming he means to skim off the oil then use this for the curry you are making ).
This tarka is obviously fairly devoid of spices except what is in the base sauce so I wouldn't think it dramatically alters flavours just adds a subtle difference. I used this method myself when cooking from Bruce's recipes so can't say if it makes a difference or not as I have never tried it without.
If I was to make say a litre bottle of spiced oil to use in my curries which spices and what amounts would you suggest I use in this volume of oil?
Regards
Ray
P.S. Family round next week so with your recent help and advice I am going to make a "Raan" of Lamb or Turkey like we had at Christmas. Can't wait!
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Here's a good (bad) review, mentioning the use of 'spiced vegetable oil' at the start of para 4.
http://website.lineone.net/~bradfordcurryguide/sweetc.htm
See also the home page of this 'Bradford Curry Guide' web site:
http://website.lineone.net/~bradfordcurryguide/index.htm
Lots of BIRs (online menus) seem to mention 'spiced oil' in connection with Biryani, Dhansak and, to a much lesser extent, rogan josh.
Regards
George
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Hi george,
It's interesting that the menu actually mentions spiced oil. I can't think of a menu ever mentioning it to promote it's product.
I have never eaten there but have gone to many incidents in the road outside where drunken fights had broken out on a friday night.
Someone was shot dead a few yards from that restaurant some time ago but I don't think it was the chef!!
I think the reviews say it all and it is one I would personally avoid. There are many more BIR's in Bradford far better than that.
Lumb Lane was Bradfords "red light and drugs" district until a couple of years ago so folk could get more than a curry in that road if they wanted!
Ray
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Ray
Thanks for the warnings on some areas of Bradford. I'll heed your advice!
If you go to google.co.uk and search on:
"spiced oil" + biryani
and tick the box 'results from UK', you'll see how many BIRs mention 'spiced oil' in connection with that dish. I'm now beginning to wonder if most places smother the pre-cooked pilau rice in oil, rather than base sauce, after all, to make a typical BIR biryani.
Regards
George
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Hi Ray,
With reference to the tarka, I was referring to John's comments re oil, spices etc. This is what a lot of people use when they are cooking authentic dishes. Not the same as spiced oil. When I make curry base I normally put about a pint of oil into it when I start to make it. This then takes on all the flavours that are in the pot and then I just spoon it all off, or as much as I can, before blending the gravy. The tarka you are talking about from Bruce Edwards probably would not have very much significance with regard to flavour as it is only oil and tomato. Where as the way I do it has lots more flavour/aroma and smells divine when it hits the pan on initial cooking. If you havn't already tried this method then I seriously think you should do so. This is, I am quite certain what a lot of restaurants are lacking in the final aroma of a curry.
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Hi CQ,
Thanks for that advice. I sounds to me that spiced oil must add a certain something to the final taste of any curry whether BIR or home made.
I have experimented a bit with spiced oil by adding more to the base than recommended and then skimming it off. It does produce a flavour to the oil reminicent of the taste of the BIR so I think must be part way to the answer of that elusive flavour we all seek.
I haven't used as much as a pint of oil but I don't see why such a large amount should be a problem if it is skimmed off after it has been infused from the base. I will give it a try next time I make a base sauce.
Regards
Ray
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Like Curryqueen says, tarka is nothing like the curry gravy oil
The tarka oil has a mild tomatoey taste
The curry gravy oil is so strong that it dominates the whole curry's flavour
If you get it on your hands, then they stink for days
It is the main source of the BIR "flavour"
In all the kitchens, I have been in, it is the only oil they use (apart from scooping a little more from the top of the curry gravy too)
They have it salvaged, in a 6 inch high ghee pot, near (or on), the stove.
The next time anyone has a curry, pour a sample of this oil off.
Get a couple of teaspoons worth
The next day check it out
You won't believe how powerfull it is
It's flavour is not made at the time of your curry
It is from frying, at the start of the curry gravy, and then many hours of boiling afterwards.
To make a BIR style curry you really only need three things
A really good (but watery) curry base (using black cardamoms)
A good spice blend & curry gravy oil
As soon as this special oil hits a heated pan, you know you are doing something right
It's an instantly recognisable smell from when you are waiting, at the takeaway,for your curry to be cooked
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Just try it and you will never turn back. If you don't like too much oil, then all you have to do is use the necessary stated in the recipe you are using and then just sppon if off at the end.
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Last Saturday I cooked an authentic lamb rogan josh, recipe by mdhur jaffrey, and it had 10 TBSP of oil in it, I skimmed a lot of this off and am having the same authentic dish again tonight using the reclaimed oil, Ill let you know if I think its any different in this style of dish.
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It is the main source of the BIR "flavour"
I agree with your comments about the strength and necessity of the reclaimed oil.
But is it the source (input) of the BIR flavour or the output? I suggest it's the latter, although the output then becomes a key input, of course. All we have to discover is which spices to add to the curries, so the oil picks up the same flavours as the BIR oil along the way, starting with when it's fresh vegetable oil. If your oil is not the same as the oil from your BIR curries, then it must be because you are using different spices in the base sauce, or much more likely, the 'stage 2' curries.
Regards
George
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Mark, did you try using the reclaimed oil and if you did, how did it go?
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Hi CQ, I did and it didnt make a huge difference. The oil looks great coming out of an authentic rogan josh though, deep ruby red :)
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Hi Mark, What you need to do is to reclaim oil from several different curries. you will then have a mix of different aromas/tastes/smells all going into a curry when making it. Every time you make a curry reclaim some and then add it to a bottle, then reuse it next time and then re add it to the bottle.
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I realize that we have visited this topic before , but I would be very concerned about storage and cross-contamination when reclaiming and using oils from multiple sources - just a thought .
CC
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CQ:Thanks for that, I think you are right, its almost certainly a process like that that generates the intensely flavoured oil that the BIRs use
I had to chuck some of my spiced oil away a couple of weeks ago, the oil itself looked ok but the bits of curry gravy in it had gone mouldy. (I hadnt been keeping it in the fridge either)
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Hi Mark, I don't usually keep my oil in the fridge either, but, it doesn't usually take too long for it to be used anyhow.