Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Talk About Anything Other Than Curry => Topic started by: bmouthboyo on November 14, 2011, 07:25 PM
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Hi Guys,
I am new here having come from KD cooking background. Just wondered how come people seem to dislike Pat Chapman so much? Have not come across his work but from what I can read on here people seem to not like the man, just wondered why?
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Good question B, I wondered the same.
His curries are not at all BIR, but he's done a lot to promote cooking curry at home here in the uk over the years, and his video seems to show good presenting skills IMO. He seems an ok bloke to me.
Looking at his website, his India cooking tours look like fun.
If my 6 numbers come up I would definitely give it a go
Matt
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I dont think we dont like him, i would never say that.
Also i dont think this site set out to dislike anyone.
Please try his books if you want to. I have a few
and revisit them from time to time but for me i wasted
quite a few years as i thought his books were sold as being bir.
However one or two pages in his books did produce good
results for me but using an oven.
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I have no axe to grind with Pat Chapman and own several of his books. My take on him is that he was the first to try and emulate BIR cooking and his books were sold on this basis. Unfortunately they didn't really do that, especially his earlier books but I think they got progressively better, especially his "Curry Bible" which is a pretty good book that I tend to use for reference purposes these days. I do think of him as being someone that was flying the flag for curries and he has done a lot to promote curries, albeit within a business context.
I still use his tandoori masala recipe for my chicken tikka and I seem to recall CA saying he did too?
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hi if you read this thread is sort of explains it and i was the original poster, modern indian restaurant cooking HA!
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=277.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=277.0)
he is called the curry king LOL! if you also refer to the posts regards to curryhouse cooking by bruce edwards originally featured in the Curryclub magazine, the 1st book has a list of 200 restaurants! BIR? but none of the recipes actually used in the book actually state a base is used. he has led millions of people all over the world trying to create the curries like they actually get in a restaurant, he even states in the book having spent 2 weeks in 2 kitchens and descibes the day in each of how it works and then that is the closest any of his books get close to Bir cooking, He has seen it all and has failed to pass the info on to others acurately, no sorry thats wrong at all! and he is also very rich off the back of it! he has had more than enough ofmy money unless he does what is says on the tin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
regards
gary ;)
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I have several books of his, and found the tandoori recipes really good. I cook the chicken tikka for work mates and they can't get enough of it.
So for me, the 3 or 4 books I have of his have been worth it.
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I checked out his entry in Wikipedia. He's had quite an interesting life - trained as a fighter pilot and other interesting stuff. It does sound like his Indian cooking knowledge comes from a traditional background though and not BIR as we know it.
Paul
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Pat Chapman's recipes are like curries my 80 year old mum makes, they're edible and nice enough but a wide mile away from restaurant/take-away style as he claims....he did get people started on the path though so he's due favour for that but I'd never buy nor borrow another of his books. Then again he could have had experience of some of the worst curry houses, in which case he's excused :P
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Pat Chapman got me into the oven method & it works very well.
Does anyone cook curries via the Oven on here?
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Hi Darth
I do Abduls Staff Chicken Curry in the oven, and would recommend it. But use chicken thighs,(2 per person) not breast, The chicken is so tender and just falls off the bone, and the kid's like picking it up in their hand's :o
But haven't tried any other ones, Is their some more recipes on here for the oven? I normally cook curry's for 4 people so oven would be a bonus ;)
HS
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Im sure i posted a few many years ago, let me know if you cant find them, think it was for a Vindalloo &/or Phall, been a long time lol.
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Cheer's Darth
Will have a look
HS
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Im sure i posted a few many years ago, let me know if you cant find them, think it was for a Vindalloo &/or Phall, been a long time lol.
I'm looking for a good Phall
best, Rich
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It seems everyone is, Ramirez is PMing me this weekend to remind me to post my Phall recipe 8)
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Im sure i posted a few many years ago, let me know if you cant find them, think it was for a Vindalloo &/or Phall, been a long time lol.
Sorry Darth,
I can't find the cotten picken things, >:( Some help required please ::)
HS
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Hmmmm, no worries people, I will post a Phall hopefully this weekend ;)
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I have most of Pats books and still use them. Although my base is different, I still use the other parts of his recipes to great effect. So I would say well done Pat.
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I have most of Pats books and still use them. Although my base is different, I still use the other parts of his recipes to great effect. So I would say well done Pat.
Please do point to one or two of his recipes which you rate and I may give them a try. For me, it's been a case of once bitten, twice shy, because I've never been impressed with recipes of his which I've tried before (decades ago!). Perhaps I tried the wrong recipes.
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Please do point to one or two of his recipes which you rate and I may give them a try.
Try ANY of his recipes from his "Balti Specials" in his "Balti Curry Cookbook" (as if!)
What's more, he wrote these books decades ago (before any of us even HEARD of a "curry base" or "spice mix", etc) so stop being so bl**dy ignorant! ::)
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Please do point to one or two of his recipes which you rate and I may give them a try.
Try ANY of his recipes from his "Balti Specials" in his "Balti Curry Cookbook" (as if!)
What's more, he wrote these books decades ago (before any of us even HEARD of a "curry base" or "spice mix", etc) so stop being so bl**dy ignorant! ::)
Calm down. It's only a book, an author and a debate.
What do yo mean by "as if"? Actually, I've never been too keen on Balti dishes, even when I've visited Birmingham. Are there any Pat Chapman recipes for a BIR Madras or a Dhansak, worth trying, by any chance?
Why do you say I'm being ignorant?
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I have the Balti curry cookbook by Pat Chapman, I picked it up for pennies from a charity shop in Llandudno earlier this year, and I've got to say, it makes for a really interesting read.
I've not tried to replicate anything from the book as of yet as there seems to be a lot of 'supplementary' ingredients required to complete most dishes. However, some of the dishes sound really interesting, especially the; Balti mt-spi-cha-chi-aub (de-coded, that means: Balti Meat with Spinach, Chana, Chickpeas and Aubergine :o)
I'm certainly up for giving the book a try.
Ray :)
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I have most of Pats books and still use them. Although my base is different, I still use the other parts of his recipes to great effect. So I would say well done Pat.
Light the touch paperand stand well back :o. Many people are very anti, a few pro and some of us just grateful :D. If you are happy with what you are cooking using his recipes then fair play mate. I started trying to cook restaurant curry just before he released his books over 23 years ago so i did find them informative at the time. However, you will learn far more from the many posts on this forum.
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I have most of Pats books and still use them. Although my base is different, I still use the other parts of his recipes to great effect. So I would say well done Pat.
Light the touch paperand stand well back :o. Many people are very anti, a few pro and some of us just grateful :D. If you are happy with what you are cooking using his recipes then fair play mate. I started trying to cook restaurant curry just before he released his books over 23 years ago so i did find them informative at the time. However, you will learn far more from the many posts on this forum.
I started using Pat Chapman's book about 22 years ago in the vain hope that I could replicate BIR.
I never really got near with his recipes although he did introduce the subject of the restaurant curry masala gravy in 'Favourite Restaurant Curries. I remember giving up with this as it was a lot of work that just produced yet another home made curry.
What his books did teach me was about spices, methods and technique.
There are a few curries that remain favourites though just for when I want an alternative to the BIR taste.
This is one of them I made last night.
Lamb Tikka Masala Curry from the small format book - Tandoori and Tikka Dishes.
It contains green masala paste which I made from the book a few weeks before Christmas.
For the first time I used a griddle to cook the tikka adding a few pieces at a time. See pic.
The final result was very good, with a distinctive 'tang'.
The rice was made BIR style not Pat Chapman's.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/jamesfisher/P1020008.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/jamesfisher/P1020003.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/jamesfisher/P1020007.jpg)
Regards, James
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Hey James, all looks very good my friend.
So, your lamb tikka masala, is it identical to the book or have you put your own twist on it. I've got to say that it looks very different from a chicken tikka masala, which is good for me, as I don't really like CTM.
If you've stuck your own twist on this, why not post the recipe as if it tastes as good as it looks, I'm sure many of us would love to give this one a try.
Ray :)
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James - your rice and curry look delicious. I had to smile when you wrote that the rice is BIR and not Pat Chapman.
Is the green masala you used the same recipe as given here:
http://www.patchapman.co.uk/page/green-masala-paste (http://www.patchapman.co.uk/page/green-masala-paste)
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After George's post, I nipped onto the Pat Chapman's website
He seriously needs some proof reading
At just a glance, there so many glaring mistakes & you wonder how long they have been there for?
He refers to events in the year "200"
Hmmm
He quotes a complimentary email describing his cooking classes "in a work - fantastic"
What?
He also posts a curry gravy recipe with fennel seeds
No! Tried it years ago..horrible
I think he is a nice bloke but if you want to know anything, his site is not the place to go
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Hey James, all looks very good my friend.
So, your lamb tikka masala, is it identical to the book or have you put your own twist on it. I've got to say that it looks very different from a chicken tikka masala, which is good for me, as I don't really like CTM.
If you've stuck your own twist on this, why not post the recipe as if it tastes as good as it looks, I'm sure many of us would love to give this one a try.
Ray :)
Hi Petrolhead. Thanks for posting your results. It's good to hear something positive came from your Pat Chapman experience ;). That curry looks tasty and certainly doesn't bear any resemblance to a BIR tikka masala. Interesting way of cooking the lamb. How do you normally cook your lamb tikka? And were the results better? I admit i have always avoided using the meat in curries because it always seems to be a little, in some cases alot, on the chewy side. However, i've now been introduced to the slow cooker method for precooking and the results are melt in the mouth for ordinary lamb. But how do i get melt in the mouth lamb tikka? This one still eludes me :-\ I'm sure if i ask the question, someone will tell me the answer ;D. Would be interested to see the recipe for this one mate.
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Hi Razor
>So, your lamb tikka masala, is it identical to the book or have you put your own twist on it. I've got to say that it looks very different from a chicken tikka masala, which is good for me, as I don't really like CTM.
I followed the recipe from the book. Back in the day as I tried each of his recipes I would make a note in pencil a score out of 10 and comment on possible improvements for next time.
This recipe I gave a 9/10 with no comments. Now please remember this is my taste which is rich and vinegary. I do like the tang in my curries and this is nothing like CTM as I'm used to.
I hadn't made this dish for years and only flicked through my collection of books as my interest was re-ignited by this site along with others including YouTube.
If it was as good as I remembered then I made it exactly as written.
Except the following;
I used Pataks Tandoori/Rogan pastes
I marinated the lamb overnight in the fridge and next morning I froze it for about a week. As it was Christmas time I didn't know when it would be used, and I heard somewhere freezing can improve the flavours in curries.
I used the griddle to cook the lamb Tikka. This was a test as the book calls for oven cooking. I think Julian suggested using a griddle to get the burnt edges while retaining moisture. I would normally use the grill but feel I had better control using the grilled.
It was a nightmare to clean after though
Hi George
>Is the green masala you used the same recipe as given here:
Yes exactly the same although he has change from the book
Book = 4 fl oz (100 ml) vinegar
Website = 4 fl oz (120ml) vinegar
I work in ml so I used less.
Hi Haldi
I think those mistakes have been there for years
Hi CurryHell
>How do you normally cook your lamb tikka? And were the results better? I admit i have always avoided using the meat in curries because it always seems to be a little, in some cases alot, on the chewy side. However, i've now been introduced to the slow cooker method for precooking and the results are melt in the mouth for ordinary lamb. But how do i get melt in the mouth lamb tikka?
I usually use the grill but will try the griddle again as I was pleasantly surprised.
Now this may be down to my butcher. He selected it for me, hanging on a hook in the window, and boned it for me. He is a master butcher and has shown me where he hangs his meat for 21 days.
I will ask him next time what part of lamb it was. But it had an exquisite taste once as Tikka and in the finished dish with that melt in the mouth experience. Definitely not chewy
The long marination may have helped too.
Hope this helps.
Regards, James
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After George's post, I nipped onto the Pat Chapman's website
Wasn't the Curry Club brand name sold to one of the leading spice producers and used by them on a website, in the early 2000s? Perhaps Pat Chapman has taken it back for a relaunch, or perhaps I'm mistaken.
Within the thousands of recipes he's published, there must be a few good ones. Perhaps this lamb tikka dish is a good example. It would be good to hear from other members who rate selected recipes highly.
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That curry looks tasty and certainly doesn't bear any resemblance to a BIR tikka masala.
And neither should it! I think the original poster made it quite clear from his post that it was not intended to be a BIR dish at all, I think it's a pretty safe assumption to make that it isn't going to look like one or taste like one for that matter. I certainly agree that it looks very tasty indeed.
This is a particular bug bear for me in these forums, people get far too hung up on what a dish looks like and whether it's a BIR dish or not. Whilst I fully appreciate the site focuses mostly on BIR type dishes, there's a whole wealth of indian cookery and cuisine that falls outside the BIR remit, but are very enjoyable dishes to eat in their own right.
I make a Chicken Masala dish that's about as far away from a BIR styled Chicken Tikka Masala as you can possibly get and it just happens to be one of the nicest flavoured chicken dishes I've ever had whether in a BIR or cooked at home.
It's easy to forget sometimes I think that the dishes you find in BIR's are simply anglicised 'fast food' versions of traditional Indian cuisine and that going back to the cuisines roots can be just as satisfying as trying to replicate the BIR dishes we're all familiar with.
Chicken Tikka Masala is a classic example of what I'm referring to, this is a totally English invention, created specifically for English tastes and does not feature in traditional Indian cookery. Personally (and it is my own personal opinion) I find Chicken Tikka Masala to be quite horrible.
Just another viewpoint.
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Just spent an hour or so flicking thru the Pat Chapman books I have bought over the years just to see what I used to make.
The good memories and disappointments came flooding back. But I didn't give up! I just bought more books!!
The score and comments, plus how curry stained the pages are, gave a good indication of how often I made the dish. See pic.
Pat Chapman books and favourite recipes
Indian Restaurant Cookbook 1988
Madras (Still a favourite of mine)
Onion bhajias (Most popular with Mrs PH)
Pakistani curry gravy
Savoury curry gravy
Medium curry Restaurant style
Do-Piaza
Lemon, Lime or Aubergine pickle
Favourite Restaurant Curries 1988
Methi Gosht
Tandoori and Tikka Dishes 1993
Green Masala paste
Meat Tikka
Lamb Tikka Masala Curry
Tandoori Keema Masala Curry
Vindaloo and other Hot Curries 1993
Pakistani Mirchi Keema
Hot and Sweet Patia
Hot Bombay Potato
Mustard Rice
Green Chilli Pickle
Sweet Red Chilli Chutney
Balti Curry Cookbook 1993
Balti Madras
Quick & Easy Curries 1995
Hottest Madra Curry
Madras Chicken
Cod Tikka Masala
Balti Bible 1998
Nice book but not made much as no scores or comments.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/jamesfisher/P1020014.jpg)
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Just spent an hour or so flicking thru the Pat Chapman books I have bought over the years just to see what I used to make.
This is so good of you. Thank you for spending the time, and for the photo, which brings it alive.
In order to give PC a chance of redemption, I must try some of the recipes which you've listed.
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Now that book has been through the curry wars ;D and seen plenty of action. My copy isn't quite in that conditional although a friend of mine's copy is barely hanging together and bears as many battle scars as PH's ;). I only pick mine up now to dust :o. I should really read through and see how far i've come since those very early days in the wilderness, just for old times sake :D
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Indian Restaurant Cookbook 1988
Pakistani curry gravy
That recipe was brilliant
Supplied by Ivan Watts from the Curry Club, if memory serves
Garlic powder is the special ingredient
I've got nearly all of Pat's books
So any critisism is from trying his recipes
Without him, I wouldn't have even started this curry trek
I'd never heard of a Curry Gravy or most of the spices, before reading his books
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OK, here goes, first post.
I used Pat Chapman's Curry Bible recipe for well over 10 years. Despite many attempts, I found that his curry masala gravy invariably tasted harsh and somewhat bitter. Few people liked many of the recipes I cooked from the book. They all lacked a 'rounded' taste, and none resembled a BIR dish.
There are, however, two recipes that IMHO are tasty, aromatic and well worth cooking. The first is his Keema Balti made with lamb mince and cooked in the oven. It reminds me of something you would get from Mother India in Glasgow (yes, I live in Scotland). It ends up as a dry-ish curry, sort of like a risotto in texture. It does have that integrity that one looks for in terms of satisfying taste.
The second is his Methi Gosht (sp?) which again used lamb. This is more savoury than spicy, but again has that lovely rounded taste.
I write this because someone asked, I think, if there were any recommended PC recipes. I would recommend these, although not as BIR exemplars, just tasty curries.
For BIR I am now using Julian's base at C2G, and await his forthcoming e-book. Just saying.
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There are, however, two recipes that IMHO are tasty, aromatic and well worth cooking.
dunholm - welcome to the forum and thank you for your specific tips on two dishes which sound like they're well worth trying, even if the vast majority of his recipes are poor, to say the least.
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Hello and welcome Dunholm. I was reminded yesterday that i have that particular book by PC. When i have some spare time i'll give one of them a go.
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with reference to my earlier post re the lamb I used from my butcher for Pat Chapman's Lamb Tikka Masala.
>I will ask him next time what part of lamb it was. But it had an exquisite taste once as Tikka and in the finished dish with that melt in the mouth experience.
I bought some more today and he recommends the knuckle end of shoulder. He boned it but left it to me to chop into tikka sized pieces.
Again I will give it a long marrinade.
Regards, James
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Hi George,
Regarding asking for one or two recopes I use a lot from his Balti Books particularly page 101 Chicken Tikka Masala from the large hardbook the Balti Bible. This is exactly like my local restaurant except that I use a better curry base.
I have prepared curries for peoples parties (I wasn't invited) who, I was told wondered which restaurant the food came from.
An English restaurant I used to frequent with my wife asked if I would make some curries to go along with their themed curry evening. This time I did have a free slap up feed plus costs. These were all from Pat chapmans books.
I would add that I think this search for the BIR curry is a mythical dream and why would any one want to dumb down to a curry from a restaurant that you could make to a better standard at home.
The last sentence I might put as a seperate topic, if its not there already.
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hi adk like i've said before about PC opinions vary! i see him as a charlatan because "its not exactly as it is on the tin!" and the money i have spent on his books pale into insignificance, when i joined this forum back in 2004! glad you have success using his restaurant dish recipes LOL! balti is different though exception to the rule!
kind regards
gary :)
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Got me thinking what books i have by Pat Chapman all the regular ones and these
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/724724224ef311fafccf42cad88f01eb.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#724724224ef311fafccf42cad88f01eb.jpg)
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Just found this thread, which inspired me to hook out all my PC books. (I thought I had them all, but haven't got North Indian Curries, Unclefrank. Any good?)
I'm not sure why there should be any hostility towards the man. While it's true that his books didn't help me to attain the holy grail of BIR, I found them interesting and full of information about my favourite food.
Flicking through 'Bangladeshi Restaurant Curries', I was intrigued to read, under the section entitled 'Bangladeshi Curry Processes', that the most important process is the bhoona (or bhuna), in which the essential or volatile oils from whole or ground spices are released by frying in ghee or oil. Okay, nothing new there, but he goes on to explain that "an initial high temperature is required".
Could this be an early reference to 'singeing'?
He goes on to say that for this process ghee is better than oil. "This is because ghee, being very clarified, reaches a higher temperature before it burns and therefore allows the spices to be taken to a higher temperature before they burn."
I must admit I tend to use oil most of the time, but shall be getting the ghee out for a bit of singeing when I make tonight's vindaloo to test the theory out...
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Flicking through 'Bangladeshi Restaurant Curries', I was intrigued to read, under the section entitled 'Bangladeshi Curry Processes', that the most important process is the bhoona (or bhuna), in which the essential or volatile oils from whole or ground spices are released by frying in ghee or oil. Okay, nothing new there, but he goes on to explain that "an initial high temperature is required".
Could this be an early reference to 'singeing'?
He goes on to say that for this process ghee is better than oil. "This is because ghee, being very clarified, reaches a higher temperature before it burns and therefore allows the spices to be taken to a higher temperature before they burn."
I must admit I tend to use oil most of the time, but shall be getting the ghee out for a bit of singeing when I make tonight's vindaloo to test the theory out...
Maybe PC isn't all bad then ;). Good luck with the ghee singeing SD. I hope to do some myself later with my fresh Zaal base which is on the go now ;D. Look forward to the vid. I'll just post up a couple of pics in the absence of a vid camera :(
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Just found this thread, which inspired me to hook out all my PC books. (I thought I had them all, but haven't got North Indian Curries, Unclefrank. Any good?)
I'm not sure why there should be any hostility towards the man. While it's true that his books didn't help me to attain the holy grail of BIR, I found them interesting and full of information about my favourite food.
Flicking through 'Bangladeshi Restaurant Curries', I was intrigued to read, under the section entitled 'Bangladeshi Curry Processes', that the most important process is the bhoona (or bhuna), in which the essential or volatile oils from whole or ground spices are released by frying in ghee or oil. Okay, nothing new there, but he goes on to explain that "an initial high temperature is required".
Could this be an early reference to 'singeing'?
He goes on to say that for this process ghee is better than oil. "This is because ghee, being very clarified, reaches a higher temperature before it burns and therefore allows the spices to be taken to a higher temperature before they burn."
I must admit I tend to use oil most of the time, but shall be getting the ghee out for a bit of singeing when I make tonight's vindaloo to test the theory out...
It's still an unknown for me about ghee. I remember reading that it takes longer to break down, ie smoke, which is when carcinogens are released. Or was it traditional or cheap. Might get some today actually ....mmmmmm ghee
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ELW: It's still an unknown for me about ghee. I remember reading that it takes longer to break down, ie smoke, which is when carcinogens are released. Or was it traditional or cheap. Might get some today actually ....mmmmmm ghee
Do you mean vegetable or butter ghee, ELW? I mention it because it's a well known fact that vegetable ghee will kill you almost instantly, whereas butter ghee will do so more slowly, and with a better flavour. ;)
Seriously though, it's true that there's no shortage of horror stories surrounding the oils and fats we use to cook or food, but I try not to worry about it too much.
Having made it to the age of 54 in surprisingly good (some may say rude) health despite existing on an almost exclusively curry based diet I reckon I'm either extremely lucky, or the human body is remarkably good at dealing with the crap we throw at it.
It may get me in the end (something has to), but I'm not ready to order the yurt and embrace fruitarianism just yet...
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ELW: It's still an unknown for me about ghee. I remember reading that it takes longer to break down, ie smoke, which is when carcinogens are released. Or was it traditional or cheap. Might get some today actually ....mmmmmm ghee
Do you mean vegetable or butter ghee, ELW? I mention it because it's a well known fact that vegetable ghee will kill you almost instantly, whereas butter ghee will do so more slowly, and with a better flavour. ;)
Seriously though, it's true that there's no shortage of horror stories surrounding the oils and fats we use to cook or food, but I try not to worry about it too much.
Having made it to the age of 54 in surprisingly good (some may say rude) health despite existing on an almost exclusively curry based diet I reckon I'm either extremely lucky, or the human body is remarkably good at dealing with the crap we throw at it.
It may get me in the end (something has to), but I'm not ready to order the yurt and embrace fruitarianism just yet...
Both Ghee's I think SD can be heated to a much higher degree. Agreed , there's a time & a place for chats about diet, normally in my gp's office where I can be found waxing lyrical about soluble fibre & cranberry juice. Personally I like to avoid those little tete a tetes. Green meat will kill you doctor, not red
ELW
Edit - as for Pat Chapman, I don't have any of her books & Khris Dhillon, don't get me started on him
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Hi Salvador i haven't tried anything from this book for a long time so cant really remember, there are 12 recipes in the book, http://www.patchapman.co.uk/catalogue/product/909/5719 (http://www.patchapman.co.uk/catalogue/product/909/5719)
The ISBN 0-297-82280-2
Don't know whether this would you out http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?st=xl&ac=qr&src=dir&isbn=0297822802&ref=bf_uu_fac_1 (http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?st=xl&ac=qr&src=dir&isbn=0297822802&ref=bf_uu_fac_1)
Its only 1.99 GBP (thats what on the back of the book) so might be able to pick up at car-boot sale or second-hand shops.
That's where i got it from for pennies.
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Hi Salvador i haven't tried anything from this book for a long time so cant really remember, there are 12 recipes in the book, http://www.patchapman.co.uk/catalogue/product/909/5719 (http://www.patchapman.co.uk/catalogue/product/909/5719)
The ISBN 0-297-82280-2
Don't know whether this would you out http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?st=xl&ac=qr&src=dir&isbn=0297822802&ref=bf_uu_fac_1 (http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?st=xl&ac=qr&src=dir&isbn=0297822802&ref=bf_uu_fac_1)
Its only 1.99 GBP (thats what on the back of the book) so might be able to pick up at car-boot sale or second-hand shops.
That's where i got it from for pennies.
Many thanks for those links, Unclefrank, Very kind of you to take the time and trouble.
Cheers
Gary
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No problem at all Salvador.
I get a lot of my Indian cookbooks from shops like Cancer Research, PDSA, Oxfam, Heart Foundation and Cats Protection for around the 2 GBP mark.
Plus a lot of car-boots (also an avid model builder churches, tombs, graveyards etc well anything gothic really) so a bargain is always on the books (sometimes lol), also had quite a few books from "Awesome Books" mainly through Amazon, very good service and the books are in excellent condition.
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I'm not sure why there should be any hostility towards the man. While it's true that his books didn't help me to attain the holy grail of BIR, I found them interesting and full of information about my favourite food.
Flicking through 'Bangladeshi Restaurant Curries', I was intrigued to read, under the section entitled 'Bangladeshi Curry Processes', that the most important process is the bhoona (or bhuna), in which the essential or volatile oils from whole or ground spices are released by frying in ghee or oil. Okay, nothing new there, but he goes on to explain that "an initial high temperature is required".
Could this be an early reference to 'singeing'?
You are so right SD!
And understanding that this was over THIRTY YEARS AGO! :o
Pat brought, to everyone's attention, the fundamentals of BIR cooking. I can only think that only a total sceptic, or a total fool, would criticise his contributions, to the BIR cause, accordingly! ::)
I accept that many people have failed to use his books and recipes to recreate BIR curries (and, yes, he seems to have reissued books to capitalise on his fortunes), but the fundamentals have always been there, for all to see ::)
I have always found Pat's books most informative, on the whole.
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I just ordered his "Balti" book from The Book Depository, so let's see how that goes.
On the subject of fats, I was briefly on a Paleolithic diet (what you can kill, pick off a tree, dig out of the ground with a sharp stick or gather from a nest preferably after climbing up a 500m cliff face) ;D - one of the interesting things I learned was the industrial conspiracy behind the "saturated fats and butter are bad, veg oils and marge are good" mantra.
This mob explain it far better than I could: http://www.drcranton.com/nutrition/oiling.htm (http://www.drcranton.com/nutrition/oiling.htm)
It's a long read but will raise your eyebrows. And very appropriate to this forum.
However it's true what they say, that 80 years ago, despite the fact that most people would live to 70 or 80 except they often got knocked off by infectious disease, coal mining accidents or several World Wars - growing up in the UK in the 1950s all my aunties and grannies lived to 95 but the men got culled out by the above fates.... I digress - heart attacks were very rare. But everyone lived on bread and dripping, breakfasts fried in lard and as much butter as they could afford. They also walked to work, did manual or hard factory work and didn't sit on their arses in front of an LCD for half the day, and a perfect weekend consisted of playing local soccer or climbing Pen-Y-Ghent with the Mrs and Kids. When I was a wee nipper I drank the little bottle of olive oil from the medicine cabinet and Mam rushed me off to the doctor ... :o
I buy Indian ghee from a local Indian Grocer for ?6 a kilo tin, nice. And it's from genuine holy cows 8)
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I just ordered his "Balti" book from The Book Depository, so let's see how that goes.
On the subject of fats, I was briefly on a Paleolithic diet (what you can kill, pick off a tree, dig out of the ground with a sharp stick or gather from a nest preferably after climbing up a 500m cliff face) ;D - one of the interesting things I learned was the industrial conspiracy behind the "saturated fats and butter are bad, veg oils and marge are good" mantra.
This mob explain it far better than I could: http://www.drcranton.com/nutrition/oiling.htm (http://www.drcranton.com/nutrition/oiling.htm)
It's a long read but will raise your eyebrows. And very appropriate to this forum.
However it's true what they say, that 80 years ago, despite the fact that most people would live to 70 or 80 except they often got knocked off by infectious disease, coal mining accidents or several World Wars - growing up in the UK in the 1950s all my aunties and grannies lived to 95 but the men got culled out by the above fates.... I digress - heart attacks were very rare. But everyone lived on bread and dripping, breakfasts fried in lard and as much butter as they could afford. They also walked to work, did manual or hard factory work and didn't sit on their arses in front of an LCD for half the day, and a perfect weekend consisted of playing local soccer or climbing Pen-Y-Ghent with the Mrs and Kids. When I was a wee nipper I drank the little bottle of olive oil from the medicine cabinet and Mam rushed me off to the doctor ... :o
I buy Indian ghee from a local Indian Grocer for ?6 a kilo tin, nice. And it's from genuine holy cows 8)
The Balti book is probably one of his better ones, Beachbum, but (as with just about all recipes) you'll probably find you need to tweak it here and there to get the results you're after. (I'm sorry, Pat, but a miserly 8oz of onions and 6fl oz of water does NOT make a curry with enough sauce for four people - unless of course they're Lilliputian.)
And I can't agree more with what you say above about saturated fats and health (many thanks for the link, too. Most interesting). My grandparents had bloody hard lives living in Yorkshire bringing up my mum and dad during WW2, and I've listened to many a tale of how gran used to pack my dad's dripping sandwiches for school before leaving the house at 5am to walk 8 miles to do a 10-hour shift at t'mill. She smoked like a trooper, cooked everything in lard, survived breast cancer in her late 60s, and lived to 98.
But before I launch into the Python sketch ("Dripping sandwiches? Luxury! We couldn't afford dripping sandwiches. We had to lick road clean wi' tongue..."), it's the same story elsewhere.
In France, for example, the diet is heavy in saturated fats - duck fat, goose fat, butter, etc., yet they have a low incidence of heart disease.
Anyway, keeping loosely on topic, butter ghee has long been my cooking fat of choice, and will continue to be so for as long as the old ticker holds out!
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Butter ghee tastes great but i've been avoiding it due to my human herd behaviour disorder flaring up now & again. I think a large part of the death stats are the lag from smoking, but one area of Glasgow recorded average life expectancy of 63, probably meaning people in their 30's & 40's were snuffin it due to their lifestyle.
I'd never used as much salt in my life until I saw the 'tv chef' battering handfuls into everthing they made ???
Would the Pat Chapman stuff worth picking up even second hand in 2012? or is it old hat?
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Pat, in my opinion, should be regarded as a curry cooking legend. How I came to know about him, I am not sure, but his books Indian Restaurant Cookery, Favourite Restaurant Curries and Pat Chapman's Curry Bible are in my opinion seminal texts that all self-respecting curry-holics should have read. With the 1984 Indian Restaurant Curries, Pat, for the first time to my knowledge, articulated recipes that were aimed squarely at those with a passion for the kinds of meals served in your local curry house. There were lots of Indian cookery books around even then but this book seemed to be the first that attempted to capture "that restaurant flavour". It didn't do that though.
In addition, it was almost subliminal advertising for his curry club, because if you couldn't source the spices for a particular recipe in your local shops then you could buy a spice pack directly from the club. Along with membership of the club, this book was my first foray into curry cookery as I imagined it should be.
Reading the introduction now, over 25 years later, his description on what goes on behind the scenes in an Indian takeaway kitchen seems somewhat dated. As I understand it Pat has travelled widely whilst researching his books but this book seems to lack experience of Indian restaurant kitchens in the UK that cook the dishes we love. It makes reference to a "curry gravy" (base) but suggests they are made with powdered garlic and ginger rather than the real thing. It provides recipes for a Pakistani Curry Gravy and a Savoury Curry Gravy but doesn't guide the reader if they are to be used in isolation or if they are part of an overall method. One is left feeling that the book is part experience and part guesswork. So although not quite fulfilling it's promise of leaving most Indian restaurants at the starting gate, this book is still, in my opinion, a landmark text because it is the first of its kind and it does contain some recipes which produce great meals, only they are not what goes on in an Indian restaurant.
Pat's next book, Favourite Restaurant Curries can be seen as a sequel to Indian Restaurant Curries in that it covered lots of similar dishes. It also attempted to articulate how a restaurant could offer dozens of recipes by starting off with a base gravy and merely adding different spices to individualise a dish. The previous book had by and large, shown the reader how to cook one-off curries. However Favourite Restaurant Curries was far from being a fully developed guide to cooking resaurant style curries. It only hinted at how this would work in practice and Pat's recipes were probably too complicated to give the reader real insight into how to truly clone the dishes of the average local takeaway.
Latterly Pat produced The Curry Bible, a book which targets the sixteen curries most common to the Indian restaurant menu along with sixteen "house favourites". This time he included one-off recipes alongside the restaurant style equivalent which brought the book another step closer to restaurant methods of cooking albeit still short of offering the reader a coherent system. However I still use Pat's recipe for Tandoori Masala in my Lamb or Chicken Tikka and his Curry Bible remains for me a splendid reference text.
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Have all three of the texts you mention and a couple of his others. I agree with everything you've said. Until the first book appeared, nothing at all was available about restaurant cooking. I have a shelf full of books - all traditional. No use at all for making restaurant dishes. Judging from the time many members of this forum have been trying to replicate the style, at the time his books and Khris Dhillons broke new ground for many of us. And now 26 years later there's no looking back. But even to this day there still is no definitive text on how to create Indian Restaurant Curry at home. Will we ever see it i wonder ??? ::)
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CH I've also a bucket load of traditional books and what I didn't realise at the time I bought them (i.e. 25-30 years ago) was that there was difference between home and restaurant cooking. Therefore I cooked some of the recipes and was disappointed that they didn't taste remotely like anything I'd eaten from a curry house. Yes PC and KD were pioneers. As for a definitive text I don't know - there's a few that have taken us much further, e.g. Bruce Edwards. More recently there have been really good posts on this forum - Panpot's Ashoka, Abudulmohed and more recently the Fleet 5. Maybe the next definitive text will come from someone who is a member of this forum?
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CH I've also a bucket load of traditional books and what I didn't realise at the time I bought them (i.e. 25-30 years ago) was that there was difference between home and restaurant cooking. Therefore I cooked some of the recipes and was disappointed that they didn't taste remotely like anything I'd eaten from a curry house. Yes PC and KD were pioneers. As for a definitive text I don't know - there's a few that have taken us much further, e.g. Bruce Edwards. More recently there have been really good posts on this forum - Panpot's Ashoka, Abudulmohed and more recently the Fleet 5. Maybe the next definitive text will come from someone who is a member of this forum?
Julian from c2g has an opportunity to put this right, unless he completed the 1st part before the Zaal visit. I'm sure he does a bit of market research on here. I suppose the ebook format has it's plusses when needing a quick update. I still find it very odd why hardly anyone focused on cooking technique. The chances of success using the type of heat & frying we are accustomed to at home has a high rate of failure in creating the bir taste
Edit - thats a great run through of the Pat Chapman stuff, I went straight for the kd book as soon as I saw it.
Of note - "The Takeaway Secret "by Kenny McGovern did instruct the reader to increase the heat at the stages we now know to be important, among a few others
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I think the prospect of Julian producing his own curry book is really quite exciting.
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CH I've also a bucket load of traditional books and what I didn't realise at the time I bought them (i.e. 25-30 years ago) was that there was difference between home and restaurant cooking. Therefore I cooked some of the recipes and was disappointed that they didn't taste remotely like anything I'd eaten from a curry house.
Funny you should say that SL, that's the same as happened to me and i'm sure a few other members of the site too :(
Yes PC and KD were pioneers. As for a definitive text I don't know - there's a few that have taken us much further, e.g. Bruce Edwards. More recently there have been really good posts on this forum - Panpot's Ashoka, Abudulmohed and more recently the Fleet 5. Maybe the next definitive text will come from someone who is a member of this forum?
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I couldn't agree more re. those mentioned who haven taken things forward and not forgetting CBM who also has produced a document on the subject. Why shouldn't it be written by someone from this forum? I'm looking forward to reading C2G's when it comes out.
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"The Takeaway Secret "by Kenny McGovern did instruct the reader to increase the heat at the stages we now know to be important, among a few others
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I missed this one totally ELW. Is a good read and full of info we now know to be correct with methods until of late we chose to ignore??? ::)
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"The Takeaway Secret "by Kenny McGovern did instruct the reader to increase the heat at the stages we now know to be important, among a few others
I missed this one totally ELW. Is a good read and full of info we now know to be correct with methods until of late we chose to ignore??? ::)
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There's some natty little junk food recipe's in that little package, the front cover attracted me to it like a moth to a lightbulb!
Is the singeing of spices nearly impossible to avoid in a hot/fast/commercial environment? Is the 'taste' merely a by product? Why don't Asian homecooks singe & create the taste @ home ? :-\ :-\ :-\
Simon Rimmer on Something for the Weekend making a 'curry'
Karl Pilkington(helping chop an onion) ~ "curries cooked at home never taste as good as a takeaway do they?"
Simon Rimmer ~ "this one will, it'll taste much better"
c'mon man, lets have some kind of bir amnesty day with our tv chefs where they can confess all :(
ELW