Curry Recipes Online
Supplementary Recipes (Curry Powders, Curry Paste, Restaurant Spice Mixes) => Supplementary Recipes (Spice Mixes, Masalas, Pastes, Oils, Stocks, etc) => Topic started by: Razor on November 07, 2011, 09:16 PM
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Due to a recent "debate" in another thread with regards to Garam Masala and this question from unclebuck (which I think was tongue in cheek?)
whats garam masala?
I asked myself the very same question and have done some research. So for anybody wishing to experiment with Garam Masala's, there seems to be regional variancies. Here a a few;
GARAM MASALA RECIPE
Ingredients:
3 tblsp grated Coconut (Nariyal)
1 tblsp Sesame seeds (Til)
2 tblsp Mustard seeds (Rai/Sarson)
1/4th tsp Saffron (Kesar) threads
1/4th cup green Pepper corns (Kalimirchi)
1/4th cup White Pepper corns
2/3rd cup Green bruised Cardamom (Elaichi) pods
3/4th cup Cumin Seed (Jeera)
1/4th cup ground Nutmeg (Jaiphal)
How to make garam masala:
Roast all ingredients in a dry pan (preferably non-stick) and heat over a very low fire, shaking the pan time to time.
When the spices give off the fragrance allow to cool slightly.
Then grind finely in an electric grinder.
If electric grinder is not available, grind by hand and press through a fine sieve afterwards.
Store it in an airtight container for up to 3 months.
Make sure you always close the lid tightly after use.
GARAM MASALA-MAHARASTRA STYLE RECIPE
Ingredients:
4 dried whole Chili pods
2 tblsp Sesame seeds (Til)
11/2 tblsp Green Pepper corns
11/2 tblsp White Pepper corns
1/4th cup whole Cloves (Lavang)
3-4 Cinnamon (Tuj/Dalchini)
22 Black Cardamom pods (Elaichi)
2/3rd cup Cumin Seed (Jeera)
1/4th cup Coriander Seed (Dhania)
2 Bay Leaf (Tej Patta)
1 tsp ground Ginger (Adrak)
1 tblsp Ground Nutmeg (Jaiphal)
How to make garam masala-maharastra style:
Roast all ingredients in a dry pan (preferably non-stick) and heat over a very low fire, shaking the pan time to time.
When the spices give off the fragrance allow to cool slightly.
Then grind finely in an electric grinder.
If electric grinder is not available, grind by hand and press through a fine sieve afterwards.
Store it in an airtight container for upto 3 months.
Make sure you always close the lid tightly after use.
GARAM MASALA-BENGALI STYLE RECIPE
Ingredients:
3-4 dried whole Chili pods
3 tblsp Sesame seeds (Til)
2 tblsp Green Pepper corns
2 tblsp Black Pepper corns
2 tblsp White Pepper corns
1 tblsp whole Cloves (Lavang)
2-3 Cinnamon (Tuj/Dalchini)
20 green bruised Cardamom pods (Elaichi)
1/4th Cumin Seed (Jeera)
3/4th cup Coriander seeds (Dhania)
3 Bay Leaf (Tej Patta)
1 tsp ground Ginger (Adrak)
How to make garam masala-bengali style:
Roast all ingredients in a dry pan (preferably non-stick) and heat over a very low fire, shaking the pan time to time.
When the spices give off the fragrance allow to cool slightly.
Then grind finely in an electric grinder.
If electric grinder is not available, grind by hand and press through a fine sieve afterwards.
Store it in an airtight container for upto 3 months.
Make sure you always close the lid tightly after use.
GARAM MASALA-PUNJABI STYLE RECIPE
Ingredients:
1/2cup Cumin Seed (Jeera)
2 tblsp Coriander seeds (Dhania)
4 sticks Cinnamon (Tuj/Dalchini)
10-12 bruised green Cardamom pods (Elaichi)
4-5 bruised black Cardamom pods (Elaichi)
10 Cloves (Lavang)
1/2 broken Nutmeg (Jaiphal)
3-4 blades of Mace (Javitri)
1 tblsp black Pepper corns (Kalimirchi)
4 whole Star anise (Dagad Phool)
5 Bay Leaf (Tej Patta)
How to make garam masala-punjabi style:
Roast all ingredients in a dry pan (preferably non-stick) and heat over a very low fire, shaking the pan time to time.
When the spices give off the fragrance allow to cool slightly.
Then grind finely in an electric grinder.
If electric grinder is not available, grind by hand and press through a fine sieve afterwards.
Store it in an airtight container for up to 3 months.
Make sure you always close the lid tightly after use.
GARAM MASALA-UTTAR PRADESH STYLE RECIPE
Ingredients:
3 dried whole Chili Pods
2 tblsp Pomegranate seeds
1/8th tsp Saffron (Kesar) threads
5 cloves of Mace (Javitri)
2 tblsp Green Pepper corns
2 tbsp White Pepper corns
2 tblsp whole Cloves (Lavang)
1/3rd cup Cumin Seed (Jeera)
2/3rd cup Coriander seeds (Dhania)
1 tblsp Fennel seeds (Saunf)
2 Bay Leaf (Tej Patta)
1tblsp Ground Nutmeg (Jaiphal)
2 tblsp Black Pepper corns (Kalimirchi)
How to make garam masala-uttar pradesh style:
Roast all ingredients in a dry pan (preferably non-stick) and heat over a very low fire, shaking the pan time to time.
When the spices give off the fragrance allow to cool slightly.
Then grind finely in an electric grinder.
If electric grinder is not available, grind by hand and press through a fine sieve afterwards.
Store it in an airtight container for upto 3 months.
Make sure you always close the lid tightly after use.
This information was sourced here http://www.indianfoodforever.com/index.html (http://www.indianfoodforever.com/index.html)
Enjoy,
Ray ;)
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Razor
I don't always make it but enjoy doing a home made garam masala. I know from my initial forays into Indian cookery that most households had their own blend. I also seem to remember it was something that was put into a dish at the end of the cooking period to add a final spiciness to the recipe.
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Hi Stephen,
I also seem to remember it was something that was put into a dish at the end of the cooking period to add a final spiciness to the recipe.
Well, that's my understanding of how it is meant to be used but, I did a bit of research to see how many variables of GM was out there. What I didn't expect to find, was regional variances though. One of them even has coconut in it....very strange!
Ray :)
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There are many theories on the use of Garam Masala and to which chef you watch or listen too - the question is when do you use Garam Masala? during the start of making a curry - in the middle - or towards the end -
Here's another question - If we all have to cook spices through at the start of cooking a curry why then do we think Garam Masala can be stirred in towards the end of cooking? The raw spices/powder can only infuse slightly into the dish and not be cooked!!!!
Love to hear EVERYONE'S opinion on this - this is a real debatable topic - we all use it (most of us) in one way or another
best, Rich
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we all use it (most of us) in one way or another
Interesting comment LIS.
I quickly checked through a number of spice mix and curry base recipes on the forum to check this statement. I was very surprised to see the number of them containing garam masala. I use it in neither (though I do make it and use it, from time to time, in some of my curry cooking...often towards the end of a slow cooked (beef or lamb) curry or to "pep up" an otherwise bland tasting curry.
I cannot recall anyone ever saying they'd actually seen it being used in a BIR (whether in their spice mix, curry base or in the cooking of their final curries)?
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Guy's,
As to not derail emin-j excellent post with regards to his spice experiment, this thread that I started back in November would seem an appropriate place to discuss Garam Masala and it's use.
My view is this, Garam Masala is a blend of spices but where this blend differs to what we call Mixed powder or curry masala is, quite a few of the ingredients in a Garam Masala, are what I would call 'aromatics' (Hot = Garam) Star anise, cloves, cinnamon, cardamom (black or green) whereas your usual suspects in a 'mixed powder or curry masala, are less fragrant and need cooking to take away the 'rawness or roughness'.
It was mentioned in emin-j's thread as to why some of us don't believe that the spices in GM need cooking out but we do for a curry masala? My view on this is, as I said, a lot of the spices that form a GM are aromatics, and across Asia and the Arab states, such spices are used as condiments. Grinding star anise, without roasting it or frying it, will still give you a powerful hit of flavour, and so doesn't really need any preparation. A sprinkle of this, will give any dish an aniseed note, and I believe that is the same for cloves, cinnamon and cardamom (black or green)
Of course, Garam masala's can and do contain some of the same ingredients that you will find in a curry masala, coriander being at least one of them.
I use Garam masala at the end of a dish, just to add a little flavour, but I don't use any more than I can get between my finger and thumb..!
I do use it in my own curry masala, because, 1) that's the way that I was taught to make my curry masala and, 2) because it adds a warmth to the curry masala that you don't get with chilli powder (chilli powder adds heat)
As for the "Chef's Special Garam Masala", I read that as nothing more than the chef's own GM recipe, and nothing really special at all..!
I have a very old curry cookbook from the early 50's where the author tells us, that in India, they use Garam masala, as their Curry powder and that curry powder as we know it, is unheard of on the sub continent? I should also point out, that the recipes in this book always ask for the Garam Masala to be added, right at the very end of every dish, and this has probably embedded my reason for doing the same. The book is wholly focused on Traditional Indian Cookery.
That's just my view of Garam Masala, others may/will have a differing view which is fine, it all adds to the theatre of Indian cookery.
Ray :)
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i recently stopped using mixed powder in my curries and use a tsp of garamasala instead and put it in at the start of the dish. \you don't get that raw, clove taste as teh rawness cooks out.... I feel it has improved my curries. I'm missing the final 1% for the specific taste I'm chasing (beefy savory flavour).... \i wonder if a home made garamasala would do the trick...maybe even Jalpur.
been doing this now for 25 bloody years and my curries have been getting worse over the years... I deserve a breakthrough :-)
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Hi Jeera,
Well, 1% left to go, isn't bad at all mate. You are using Garam Masala in a way that suits you and that is excellent, because it shows that it can be used in a way that differs from other peoples, mine included, methods.
Many thanks for your view,
Ray :)
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As for the "Chef's Special Garam Masala", I read that as nothing more than the chef's own GM recipe, and nothing really special at all..!
As I said in the previous thread - at what point does a Garam Masala stop being a Garam Masala and actually becomes something else?
I believe the use of the term Garam Masala is becoming blurred almost to the point that no-one really understands what Garam Masala is any more or when or how it should be used.
In traditional Indian cookery, Garam Masala contained the four principal spices responsible for producing 'body heat' namely Black Peppercorns, Cloves, Cinnamon and Cardamon, hence the name Garam (heat) and Masala (spice mix). This was added in small quantities at the end of cooking to add aroma and fragrance to the finished dish. This was after the principal spicing of the dish had already been cooked into it at the beginning using the usual spices found in Indian cuisine - turmeric, cumin, coriander, paprika, chilli etc.
Yet now we see spice mixes that purport to be Garam Masala that may or may not contain any of the principal ingredients and more often than not will contain large quantities of the cheaper ingredients such as coriander, cumin, paprika and so on that should be used at the start of the cooking process - not at the end. I even saw a Garam Masala in Tescos that didn't contain any of the four main principal ingredients of traditional Garam Masala.
Now we're starting to see the term Chef's Special Garam Masala being used, so the question is, what is a Chef's Special Garam Masala, what spice components does it contain and how is it being used?
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As for the "Chef's Special Garam Masala", I read that as nothing more than the chef's own GM recipe, and nothing really special at all..!
Now we're starting to see the term Chef's Special Garam Masala being used, so the question is, what is a Chef's Special Garam Masala, what spice components does it contain and how is it being used?
It seems to me that Ray had answered that very accurately; it is a Garam Masala blended according to the chef's own recipe. What exactly do you find so difficult to understand in that idea ?
** Phil.
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Nice follow on post Ray ;)
Your explanation of the ' Chef's Special ' is spot on, I would just add it was only Cardamom (green) ,Cloves,Bay leaf and star anise that brought out that wonderful flavour,also as I'm using the C2G base which is heavily spiced why would I need to use even more of the same spices in the main dish (spice mix) :-\ for me it's just working out how to incorporate the aromatic spices into the curry the BIR way,hence the Garam Masala. ;)
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What exactly do you find so difficult to understand in that idea ?
I don't think I'm the one finding things difficult to understand. I have posed three questions, none of them so far have been answered as far as I'm concerned. But let me make one of them a little clearer -
How is the Chef's Special Garam Masala actually being used? As a traditional Garam Masala would be or as a more generic Spice Mix and if it's the latter, why is it being called Garam Masala?
As you appear to understand things very clearly, perhaps you might like to offer an answer or your own opinion on this?
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How is the Chef's Special Garam Masala actually being used? As a traditional Garam Masala would be
Yes.
or as a more generic Spice Mix and if it's the latter, why is it being called Garam Masala?
No, it is not a generic Masala, it is a Garam Masala; that is why it is called a [Chef's Special] Garam Masala.As you appear to understand things very clearly, perhaps you might like to offer an answer or your own opinion on this?
With pleasure : please see above.
** Phil.
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How is the Chef's Special Garam Masala actually being used? As a traditional Garam Masala would be
Yes.
So it's being added at the end of cooking then?
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How is the Chef's Special Garam Masala actually being used? As a traditional Garam Masala would be
Yes.
So it's being added at the end of cooking then?
Perhaps, perhaps not : a masala does not change its name just because of when it is used; a Garam Masala is a Garam Masala, no matter whether it is used conventionally (sprinkled on just before serving) or unconventionally (introduced into the dish earlier, or even incorporated into other ingredients such as the base or the spice mix). A beer mat is still a beer mat, no matter whether you use to as a drip-absorbing rest for your beer glass or to put under a table leg to stop the table wobbling.
** Phil.
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Hi Jeera,
Well, 1% left to go, isn't bad at all mate. You are using Garam Masala in a way that suits you and that is excellent, because it shows that it can be used in a way that differs from other peoples, mine included, methods.
Many thanks for your view,
Ray :)
Hi Ray,
I may have been slightly over optimistic in my 99% assessment there. Let''s call it 95% :-)
I do recall a couple of curries from years ago that I made that were the business and maybe got to 97% (I didn't know about mixed powder at that time, so I never used it then.... that said, I was never able to re-create a second time ... therefore a do feel the technique is key and sometimes you can accidentally hit a home run with great results...
There definitely is an ingredient/quantity that i'm still searching for in addition to technique and my heart tells me it's one of these garamasala ingredients (oh and paprika and coconut) in the base too
the search continues :-)
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Perhaps, perhaps not
Aha, so not quite as easy and straight forward as first thought then?
a masala does not change its name just because of when it is used; a Garam Masala is a Garam Masala
And a Garam Masala differs from a Spice Mix or Mix Powder in what way then?
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And a Garam Masala differs from a Spice Mix or Mix Powder in what way then?
Technically, Garam Masala IS a Spice mix, under any other name, or am i wrong here
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Perhaps, perhaps not
Aha, so not quite as easy and straight forward as first thought then?
Perfectly easy, and perfectly straightforward. What you actually asked was "So it's being added at the end of cooking then?", to which the answer was, with complete accuracy, "perhaps, and perhaps not". The very fact that it is garam masala does not mean that it has to be used as garam masala has traditionally been used, any more than anything has to be used in the way its creators intended. This forum, for example, was created so that we might share our experiences and knowledge of BIR cuisine and benefit in so doing; but it is frequently used for quite unrelated purposes such as, for example, attempting to demonstrate one's superiority in all matters BIR to those too stupid to see it for themselves.
And a Garam Masala differs from a Spice Mix or Mix Powder in what way then?
Well, to quote the words of a well-known authority on the subject, "In traditional Indian cookery, Garam Masala contained the four principal spices responsible for producing 'body heat' namely Black Peppercorns, Cloves, Cinnamon and Cardamon, hence the name Garam (heat) and Masala (spice mix). This was added in small quantities at the end of cooking to add aroma and fragrance to the finished dish. This was after the principal spicing of the dish had already been cooked into it at the beginning using the usual spices found in Indian cuisine - turmeric, cumin, coriander, paprika, chilli etc.". A "spice mix", or a "mix powder", on the other hand, are less well-defined, both because the terms lack precision and because there is no long history to which we can refer in order to determine the real meaning. However, in current usage, and certainly as used on this forum, they tend to refer to a pre-prepared blend of spices that require "cooking out" in order to develop their flavour and to take the edge off their rawness.
** Phil.
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Hi Les
And a Garam Masala differs from a Spice Mix or Mix Powder in what way then?
Technically, Garam Masala IS a Spice mix, under any other name, or am i wrong here
Technically yes, a Garam Masala is a spice mix or mix of spices, whichever you prefer. The emphasis though is on the word "Garam", which means "hot or Heat" The aromatics most commonly found in a GM are, cloves, cinnamon, cardamom, bay leaf, star anise, black peppercorns, all of which don't 'usually' appear in a standard curry masala. The heat or hot element that these spices bring, is not a heat that burns your tongue, but a heat that warms you from the inside. Of course, the word Masala, applies to any mix of spices, whole or ground, whether it be Garam, or Curry, and even with added oil to make a paste..!
Now, as you will see at the beginning of this thread, there are many different varieties of garam masala, from many different regions and, they may even be used in different ways, ie; at the beginning, middle or the end of a dish. But, whatever their use is, or however the chef, decides to use the Garam Masala, it doesn't, in my opinion, change that fact that it is a Garam Masala because of the aromatic/pungent (heat inducing) spices contained within it.
I'm now beginning to understand Spicey's line of enquiry within this subject.
Ray :)
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Ok, this probably isn't going to be a popular example with some, but this is what Pat Chapman has to say about Garam Masala, taken from the Balti Curry Cookbook; isbn CN 2849
Garam Masala is one of the keys to North Indian, Moghul and Pakistani and Balti cooking. Literally meaning hot (garam) mixture of spices (masala), it is used to perk up dishes towards the end of their cooking.
There are as many recipes fro garam masala as there are cooks and, as with the previous recipe, you will probably wish to vary the ingredients to suit your taste. This is an authentic Kashmiri garam masala where the emphasis is on the aromatics rather than the heat.
And this from Kris Dhillon, taken from The New Curry Secret.
Garam means 'hot' and masala a 'mixture of spices'
According the Ayurvedic concept of health, food items have differing effects on our bodies and our health due to our constitution or 'tri-dosha'. The heat from this 'hot' spice mix is not a heat that you taste as with chillies, but one that warms the body. Spices such as cloves, cinnamon, black cardamoms and nutmeg are the Garam constituents of this aromatic mixture.
It seems that both Pat and Kris are in agreement as to what Garam Masala is however, it seems to me that the debate in this thread is, when it should be used? If my assumption is correct, then I would say that 'Jeera's' post shows that it can be used whenever you feel like, IF it gives you good result?
Ray :)
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Technically, Garam Masala IS a Spice mix, under any other name, or am i wrong here
To follow up on Ray's answer : by definition, a Garam Masala is a Masala, and a Masala is a blend of spices, so provided you are willing to accept that a Spice Mix is just another way of expressing "a blend of spices", then yes. But if, on the other hand, you believe (and I don't mean "you" personally in this context) that a Spice Mix is that mixture of spices that is added in the early stages of preparing a curry, and which need to be "cooked out", then no : with that restricted definition of a Spice Mix, a Garam Masala is not a Spice Mix.
I hope this helps, Les, but I fear that I may have just muddied the waters even further ...
** Phil.
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If my assumption is correct, then I would say that 'Jeera's' post shows that it can be used whenever you feel like, IF it gives you good result? Ray :)
Absolutely, Ray : I could not agree more.
** Phil.
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I'm now beginning to understand Spicey's line of enquiry within this subject.
And yet again we will have to leave the definition of Garam Masala open ended, because no-one can really define what it is or when or how it is used specifically in BIR cooking. Yet people will continue to bandy the term around without fully understanding what it contains or how its used.
Yet new people here are supposed to understand this?
Perhaps, perhaps not.
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Technically, Garam Masala IS a Spice mix, under any other name, or am i wrong here
Yes it is, but it's a specific type of spice mix. The question is, how and why is it differentiated from other 'Spice Mix's as used within BIR Cookery? And when used in BIR's how and when is it being used?
And I'm talking specifically about Indian Restaurants, not what people do here.
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Technically, Garam Masala IS a Spice mix, under any other name, or am i wrong here
To follow up on Ray's answer : by definition, a Garam Masala is a Masala, and a Masala is a blend of spices, so provided you are willing to accept that a Spice Mix is just another way of expressing "a blend of spices", then yes. But if, on the other hand, you believe (and I don't mean "you" personally in this context) that a Spice Mix is that mixture of spices that is added in the early stages of preparing a curry, and which need to be "cooked out", then no : with that restricted definition of a Spice Mix, a Garam Masala is not a Spice Mix.
I hope this helps, Les, but I fear that I may have just muddied the waters even further ...
** Phil.
Phil/Spicey
Both your explanations work for me, It has cleared my question (and my mind) up, I understand the difference now,
Thanks for your input
Les
PS
I know that Julian (c2g) always add's a pinch of GM at the end of cooking, Which in my mind keeps the integrity of the spices, rather than adding at the beginning of the dish, which would diminish the flavour a bit.
But It's up to the individual and what they want to achieve i suppose
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GARAM MASALA
I was an original hippy :) back in the "good old days" so here is another perspective on GM use
Meditation was the "in thing" some were playing with it ,and some were very advanced ,There were many ways to relax ,to clear the mind from chanting to inscense burning etc. One girl I knew used GM ,I asked her about it and she said "it helps to get total relaxation"
Not saying she was right or wrong. it became popular then in some BIRS ,and why not ?
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Hi Spicey,
And yet again we will have to leave the definition of Garam Masala open ended, because no-one can really define what it is or when or how it is used specifically in BIR cooking. Yet people will continue to bandy the term around without fully understanding what it contains or how its used.
I don't understand mate, I thought that I had explained it in my earlier post as did Phil?
What it is?.........is a masala made up of aromatic, warmth inducing spices such as, black peppercorns, star anise, cinnamon, cardamoms, but quite often mixed with other spices such as coriander and cumin.
When is it used?.......Usually towards the end of the finished dish but can be used whenever the chef desires.
How is it used?.......by adding a specific quantity to a dish and stirring through. It can also be used as a condiment much in the same way as salt and pepper. I have also heard it used as an aid to meditation ;)
How it is used in BIR's specifically?....I have never been fortunate enough to get behind the scenes in a BIR so my answer can only be speculative but I would suggest that my above comments come pretty close. I would also add, that it can also form part of a curry masala, so, a masala within a masala..!
I honestly don't know how better to describe it I'm afraid :-\
Ray :)
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And yet again we will have to leave the definition of Garam Masala open ended, because no-one can really define what it is or when or how it is used specifically in BIR cooking.
First of all, let us not conflate two very different concepts : what a GM is, and how it is used. I believe that Ray, and your good self, and several others, have all very adequately defined what it is : a mixture of "warming" spices, examples of which have been listed. Clearly there is no one recipe for GM : there are probably as many recipes as there are Indian families and Indian chefs, but the basic constituents and proportions are agreed yet still open to individual interpretation and variation.
Now let us turn our attention to how it is used. In traditional Indian cuisine, it is sprinkled on just before a dish is served; it may, or it may not, be stirred in. In BIR cuisine, that usage is still recognised and respected, but not universally adopted. Some (but by no means all) who believe that a good spice mix is one of the keys to a good curry, have taken to adding some GM to their spice mix; others have not. Some may add it as a separate ingredient, at the beginning (before bhooning), after bhooning, whatever : each recipe will tell the would-be chef when to add it, how much to add, and so on.
So what really is unclear ? We know what it contains (in general, and to a certain extent, specific, terms), we know how it is used. What remains to be discussed ?
Yet people will continue to bandy the term around without fully understanding what it contains or how its used.
Just as people will bandy around "leverage" or "demographic" or "resource", all wonderful modern buzzy words which hoi polloi rush to adopt without ever asking themselves if they really understand the words they are adopting. No different with Garam Masala : some, wishing to appear self-important, use it when they really mean "spice mix" or just "masala"; others, with a longer background in Indian cuisine, and who care about the words they use, will use it when appropriate and eschew it otherwise.
Yet new people here are supposed to understand this?
If they want to, yes; if they just want a new word with which to impress their friends, no. Not our problem : theirs.
My two rupees'orth.
** Phil.
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So what really is unclear ? We know what it contains (in general, and to a certain extent, specific, terms), we know how it is used. What remains to be discussed ?
For me personally, (I can't speak for others) specifically how a BIR Chef would use his/her Garam Masala mix. That's really what I would like to know. Are they using it as an ingredient in a generic 'spice mix'? Or as a replacement for the 'spice mix' itself? Or along more conventional lines aka Julian from C2Go, as an addition at the end of cooking?
We know most generic spice mixes will contain as principal ingredients - turmeric, coriander, cumin and paprika and as secondary ingredients - fenugreek powder/dried leaves, garlic powder, ginger powder, tandoori masala powder etc. What's notable is the absence of the primary ingredients in Garam Masala - Peppercorns, Cloves, Cinnamon/Dalchini, Cardamon.
What interests me in trying to understand, is at what point and how, a BIR chef will incorporate the primary flavours from Garam Masala into a typical BIR Curry. I know some of them are used as whole spices in pre-cooking the meat and we also know Julian for example uses a Garam Masala mix at the end of cooking in powder form.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm quite curious about understanding this.
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Hi Sp
I'll try and put this to bed. Garam Masala is ambiguous, like so many written terms and definitions.
Firstly my BIR kitchen knowledge is real and of Bangladeshi/Bengali kitchens, which are probably 80% of the UK BIR's.
The four main Whole Garam Spices used daily, both in a Bengali Home and Restaurant are 1.Tej Patta or Indian Bay Leaves, 2.Hari Elaichi or Green Cardamom, 3.Laung or Cloves, 4.Dalchini or Cassia Bark. These are used whole, in various preparations for taste and aroma i.e for flavouring precooked meats. precooked chopped onions, and precooked chunky vegetables, although some chefs favour Bengali five spice (Panch Phoron) for the latter and not forgetting rices and some sweets.
Bengali BIR Garam Masala.
The same whole Garam spices, 1234 when ground and combined, produce a Garam Masala Powder, which a Bengali BIR chef will use a pinch of to provide an aromatic finish to any particular curry dish he cooks, usually Bhuna or Karahi style, it really is chef dependant.
So when you pass a Bengali BIR or Bengali home and smell that distinct aroma, these 4 aromatics are a main part of that.
These are the main 4 Garam spices preferred by Bengalis, plenty of other spices are used in there cooking
but these 4 are fundamental and always have been. for Bengalis Anyhoo.
cheers Chewy
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Chewy
Do you have the recipe to make the GM powder with the famous four.
Les
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At least half the spice mixes (restaurant or otherwise) on here have Garam Masala as an ingredient.
Martin
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Chewy
Do you have the recipe to make the GM powder with the famous four.
Les
Hi Les
Just equal parts, near enough ;)
No need to roast or you can if you fancy
1part Cardamom Seeds (Discard Husks)
1part Cloves
1part Tej Patta
1part Cinnamon Stick.
cheers Chewy
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Chewy
Do you have the recipe to make the GM powder with the famous four.
Les
Hi Les
Just equal parts, near enough ;)
No need to roast or you can if you fancy
1part Cardamom Seeds (Discard Husks)
1part Cloves
1part Tej Patta
1part Cinnamon Stick.
cheers Chewy
Appreciated Chewy,
Thanks a bunch
Les
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So what really is unclear ? We know what it contains (in general, and to a certain extent, specific, terms), we know how it is used. What remains to be discussed ?
For me personally, (I can't speak for others) specifically how a BIR Chef would use his/her Garam Masala mix. That's really what I would like to know. Are they using it as an ingredient in a generic 'spice mix'? Or as a replacement for the 'spice mix' itself? Or along more conventional lines aka Julian from C2Go, as an addition at the end of cooking? [...] Maybe it's just me, but I'm quite curious about understanding this.
Yes, I think that question is a very important one, but would you not agree that we can almost certainly rule out the possibility of a knowledgeable BIR chef "using [GM] as a replacement for the 'spice mix' itself" ? I would estimate the probability of that at nearly zero.
** Phil.
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Just equal parts, near enough ;)
No need to roast or you can if you fancy
1part Cardamom Seeds (Discard Husks)
1part Cloves
1part Tej Patta
1part Cinnamon Stick.
Confused, Chewy : in your earlier message you wrote : "The same whole Garam spices, 1234 when ground and combined, produce a Garam Masala Powder"; I took your "1234" as indicating the proportions, but you now say these are 1:1:1:1. If "1234" were not the proportions, what were they intended to represent ?
Also can you clarify further your use of "Darchini or Cinnamon/Cassia Bark" ? For me, "Dalchini" (my preferred spelling, but we are both referring to the same thing) is Cinnamon. Cassia bark is another substance completely, which I refer to in my own posts as "faux Cinnamon" but which is also called (e.g.,) "Chinese cinnamon". From your perspective, which is used in Garam Masala : Cinnamon, or Cassia Bark [2] ?
** Phil.
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[1] from Cinnamomum verum
[2] from Cinnamomum aromaticum
C. burmannii (Korintje or Indonesian cinnamon) and C. loureiroi (Saigon cinnamon or Vietnamese cinnamon) are also sources of variants of faux Cinnamon.
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Confused, Chewy : in your earlier message you wrote : "The same whole Garam spices, 1234 when ground and combined, produce a Garam Masala Powder"; I took your "1234" as indicating the proportions, but you now say these are 1:1:1:1. If "1234" were not the proportions, what were they intended to represent ?
Also can you clarify further your use of "Darchini or Cinnamon/Cassia Bark" ? For me, "Dalchini" (my preferred spelling, but we are both referring to the same thing) is Cinnamon. Cassia bark is another substance completely, which I refer to in my own posts as "faux Cinnamon" but which is also called (e.g.,) "Chinese cinnamon". From your perspective, which is used in Garam Masala : Cinnamon, or Cassia Bark [2] ?
** Phil.
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[1] from Cinnamomum verum
[2] from Cinnamomum aromaticum
C. burmannii (Korintje or Indonesian cinnamon) and C. loureiroi (Saigon cinnamon or Vietnamese cinnamon) are also sources of variants of faux Cinnamon.
RTT
I numbered the spices 1,2,3,4, giving their name and in English, how simple do you want it Phil
They use Cinnamon/Cassia Bark. either will do, I'ts all in the family, likewise Tej Patta.
cheers Chewy
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Yes, I think that question is a very important one, but would you not agree that we can almost certainly rule out the possibility of a knowledgeable BIR chef "using [GM] as a replacement for the 'spice mix' itself" ? I would estimate the probability of that at nearly zero.
** Phil.
Hi Phil, here's one http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3923.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3923.0), coming from a brilliant bir observation, this has always puzzled me in comparison to almost every other recipe. Think the idea was to add the spices in the form of the onion paste, that has no mix powder either :-\. Base uses "curry powder", which is the only powder mix i can see there
My efforts at these are way off what you would be served in one of their restaurants
ELW
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Can we once and for all clear up this mistake re:bay leaves
When used in GM
"tejpat" is a leaf from a tree called Cinnamomum tamala THE CASSIA LEAF
For some strange reason it is called " Indian Bay Leaf " for the western market
BAY LEAF is from Laurus Nobilis
Many chefs in the curry realm use the word "Bay Leaf "in GM mixes ( including KD) without specifying which one either can be used but the best is the CASSIA LEAF tejpat
No wonder there is still confusion
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I numbered the spices 1,2,3,4, giving their name and in English, how simple do you want it Phil
Well, sufficiently simple that there is no ambiguity would seem a reasonable target, Chewy.
They use Cinnamon/Cassia Bark. either will do
"Either will do", yet each will produce a quite different taste. This doesn't seem very helpful in our quest for the Ultimate Answer to the meaning of Garam Masala, the Universe and all that. Are you not able to shed more light in this, in view of your in-depth knowledge of Bangladeshi/Bengali BIR kitchens ? Is one preferred to the other, or do some kitchens use one and some kitchens use the other, or what ? After all, a Garam Masala has only four ingredients, and for one of them to be either Cinnamon or Cassia Bark is opening up a whole new area of uncertainty ...
** Phil.
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Hi Phil, here's one http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3923.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3923.0), coming from a brilliant bir observation, this has always puzzled me in comparison to almost every other recipe. Think the idea was to add the spices in the form of the onion paste, that has no mix powder either :-\. Base uses "curry powder", which is the only powder mix i can see there
My efforts at these are way off what you would be served in one of their restaurants
Interesting, from two perspectives : (1) this is a recipe for Bhuna Chicken, which seems to be generally agreed is (a) not what it used to be, and (b) hard to achieve; and (2) that both the base and the onion paste do have some of the other, more common, "spice mix" spices. Not sure what this tells us, but thank you very much for drawing it to our attention.
** Phil.
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For me this has been an interesting topic but how the hell has it gone on so long :-\, it's like one of those live music performances where the audience applauds thinking its the end of the song when the guitarist comes back in and continues the outro :) :) :)
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Hi Phil,
" If "1234" were not the proportions, what were they intended to represent ? "
I think chewy was meaning 1234 (instead of renaming tham again) as in his post as follows, hope this helps.
"The four main Whole Garam Spices used daily, both in a Bengali Home and Restaurant are 1.Tej Patta or Indian Bay Leaves, 2.Hari Elaichi or Green Cardamom, 3.Laung or Cloves, 4.Darchini or Cinnamon/Cassia Bark"
Hope this help.
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I think chewy was meaning 1234 (instead of renaming tham again) as in his post as follows, hope this helps.
Thank you, Graeme : yes, all understood now.
** Phil.
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These are the main 4 Garam spices preferred by Bengalis, plenty of other spices are used in there cooking
but these 4 are fundamental and always have been. for Bengalis Anyhoo.
Thank you, very helpful posting.
Just one question on the proportions - is it right to assume the 1:1:1:1 is via weight? Eg 10 grams whole cloves, 10 grams cardamon seeds, roast and grind etc?
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Here's a quote from the resident know-it-all in reply to a question about garam masala.
I would buy green cardamom, cassia bark, cloves and powdered mace,
if you haven't already. Make the garam masala out of these, it will
be very pungent, but you only need a little. Don't roast these,
there is no point, they don't change flavour (unlike coriander,
cumin and fenugreek), you only lose flavour!
Add the garam masala (homemade) at the beginning, even with the
onions, as the oil/ghee will extract the flavours. I would not
add any at the end, but you might adjust the ratio of the individual
spices in your original mix, as on prolonged cooking
(say above 1 hour) some of the more volatile flavours will be
lost to your kitchen atmosphere.
Think of it like a perfume. They have three layers of fragrance
(in classical perfumery anyway), top notes, middle notes and
base notes. The green cardamom would be in the top notes,
and lost most readily, then the cloves would be in the middle notes,
and cassia in the base notes, and persist the longest.
Its not scientific, but it seems to have merit.
Not sure about the mace though?
Other garam masalas can have other ingredients,
I like brown cardamom, black cumin, cassia, cloves, mace and
long pepper for N Indian dishes.
taken from a BIR poopooing site
Frank. ;)
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Ox
1.Tej Patta aka Indian Bay Leaves
No confusion here or mistake, it is as stated.
If you went into an Asian supermarket and asked for Indian Bay Leaves,
they would give you Tej Patta, more than likely grown in Bangladesh and marketed as simply Bay Leaf.
But if you asked for Cinnamomum tamala leaves or dried Malbathrum leaves or even simple Malabar Leaves
I think they would struggle to know what you were talking about.
Graeme
Thanks for helping the old chap across the road, very good of you ;D
Phil
I'll edit the post and go with Cassia Bark to avoid confusion for new members ;)
SP
When I'm doing fresh powders, I usually judge the whole spice by eye
grind it in the Coffee Mill, then measure it by volume with a standard set
of measuring spoons.
I made this a couple of weeks ago with the 1,2,3,4, at 10ml + Black Pepper Corn 5ml + Mace 5ml + Black Salt 5ml
the Black Salt makes it more like a Chat Masala.
I try to keep my fresh powders down to about 60gm to suit the small airtight containers I use.
cheers Chewy
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I don't know whether this thread helps...or confuses things further?
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2151.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2151.0)
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Hi ChewyOx
1.Tej Patta aka Indian Bay Leaves
No confusion here or mistake, it is as stated.
If you went into an Asian supermarket and asked for Indian Bay Leaves,
they would give you Tej Patta, more than likely grown in Bangladesh and marketed as simply Bay Leaf.
But if you asked for Cinnamomum tamala leaves or dried Malbathrum leaves or even simple Malabar Leaves
I think they would struggle to know what you were talking about.
Graeme
Thanks for helping the old chap across the road, very good of you ;D
Phil
I'll edit the post and go with Cassia Bark to avoid confusion for new members ;)
SP
When I'm doing fresh powders, I usually judge the whole spice by eye
grind it in the Coffee Mill, then measure it by volume with a standard set
of measuring spoons.
I made this a couple of weeks ago with the 1,2,3,4, at 10ml + Black Pepper Corn 5ml + Mace 5ml + Black Salt 5ml
the Black Salt makes it more like a Chat Masala.
I try to keep my fresh powders down to about 60gm to suit the small airtight containers I use.
cheers Chewy
Hi Chewy
I know and you know that But lots of other curry cooks buy " Bay" leaves from supermarkets it is them who I would like to steer down the correct path to better BIRS
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Frank,
Where can I find the 'BIR poopooingsite'?
Ray :)
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Wasn't sure if it was ok to mention it, so i left out the link in my post.
But you know it Ray, i saw you'd posted there recently ;)
Frank.
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I found it by searching Google for a stretch of text [1] lifted directly from the post.
It's called "Mamta's Kitchen Forum".
** Phil.
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[1] "I would buy green cardamom, cassia bark, cloves and powdered mace, "
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Wasn't sure if it was ok to mention it, so i left out the link in my post.
But you know it Ray, i saw you'd posted there recently ;)
Frank.
I don't see what's wrong with a link to mamtaskitchen. It is a useful resource although not BIR.
Any spice mix (or gm) with a significant quantity of mace or nutmeg would have me running for miles.
I don't think mace or nutmeg feature much in BIR food.
Paul
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I'll try and put this to bed
Can we once and for all clear up this mistake
For me this has been an interesting topic but how the hell has it gone on so long
Spicey, you keep going until you are clear on it mate! If you're unclear, you can bet your bottom dollar that many other members are too! ;)
Those that aren't interested in it needn't respond.
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Spicey, you keep going until you are clear on it mate! If you're unclear, you can bet your bottom dollar that many other members are too! ;)
Yes, Keep it going, Must admit I'm "not the sharpest knife in the drawer," ;D But I have learned a lot about GM from this thread, (in fact to the point of making my own :)) And possibly other new members will find it useful
Les
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Hi Frank,
Yes, I know the one ;D Strange how the other side of the coin looks isn't it, and how a lot of their comments, mirror what has been said on here over the years about traditional Indian food.
I didn't really want to get into an argument with them as BIR is not their focus, so I backed off :P
http://www.mamtaskitchen.com/board/showthread.php?thread_id=22729 (http://www.mamtaskitchen.com/board/showthread.php?thread_id=22729)
I don't see a problem with posting the link either, it's nothing to do with BIR is it?
Ray :)
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I had been composing on and off for a day or so wondering whether to post or not as i have done with some threads here :P
But in the end, i couldn't be bothered as there's only a few purists that post on that site.
I Was going to conclude with, "If it wasn't for the British Indian Restaurant this website wouldn't exist" ;)
What i will say here is,
I've travelled around India and the UK and eaten some fantastic food. And "at the end of the day", a good curry is a good curry regardless of whether its BIR or traditional.
Frank ;)
P.s. couldn't help getting the footballers favourite phrase in :D
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P.s. couldn't help getting the footballers favourite phrase in :D
Yes, but the problem is, Frank, we don't have a level playing field. Making a good curry really is a game of two halves, and it's not over yet ... !
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Making a good curry really is a game of two halves, and it's not over yet ... !
Not until the Fat Chef sing's ;D ;D ;D
Les
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Not until the Fat Chef sing's ;D ;D ;D
Sings ? You mean he's a grass as well as a tea-leaf ?!