Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: natterjak on March 18, 2011, 08:35 PM
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As some of you know from my other posts I've recently been occupied with making garlic/ginger paste, bunjara and ashoka base sauce, all in preparation for having a crack at a Jalfrezi recipe that CR0 user Chinois kindly emailed me. When I say Ashoka base it's actually Chinois's variation of it, but virtually the same so no matter.
So how did it go?
Well, uhh... not great really! Not that I can criticise Chinois and his recipes because I reckon I ballsed it up spectacularly. I'll explain......
The base sauce was ok, I boiled it up in my 8 litre stockpot this morning and didn't even get the hellish stink of boiling onions that I remember from Kris Dhillon's base sauce of years gone by. The taste was kind of mild curry, with a velvety texture, just as Chinois said it should be. (image attached)
I was a little nervous of cooking the curry itself. So many things to add, all at the right time in the right order. I did my prep well and watched Chinois's excellent Madras video several times:
Indian Restaurant Chicken Madras Curry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6O-IdAcCs0#)
I even noted down on post it notes each stage and the number of seconds between each. It was all written up like a stage manager's running order.
So - what could go wrong? Cooking by numbers isn't it? Just portion off all your ingredients into little pots next to the cooker and follow your running order.
Problem 1 was I started with oil skimmed off the top of my bunjara as Chinois suggests. This was great but it seems impossible to do this without getting some bits of bunjara in the pan too. As my hob and frying pan heated up the bunjara started to fry and darken. My hob is electric and takes a while to get going and my pan has a really thick base which also slows down the warming up process. I realised that due to the bits of bunjara floating in the oil if I left it on the heat for too long I'd end up nice burnt bunjara undertones to the dish, so had to put ingredient no.1 (garlic) in while the pan was still medium hot.
Never mind, I'd just lengthen some of the timings and all would be well....
A few ingredients down and still quite a number to go and my post it note running order was proving invaluable as i was in a right old flap with only 10 or 20 seconds between some "cues". Meanwhile I was boiling rice on another hob ring. My curry frying pan still wasn't exactly setting the world on fire, distinctly lacking in temperature. One thing Chinois is clear on is the importance of getting that pan sizzling, so I was somewhat dismayed, realising it was all going a bit wrong :(
I've got to say my mood didn't improve much when my post it notes decided that sticking to the wall in the face of all the steam rising off the hob was outside their job description and fluttered down into my pan of base sauce. Blooming marvellous, now I was flying blind.
Meanwhile my rice was going great guns, pan bubbling over and distracting me from the curry. Needless to say I was so stressed out I could do without this but every time I turned the rice down and the curry up it just seemed to get worse and the curry had gone off the boil entirely...
Yeah you got it - I had my cooker knobs mixed up and had been turning the curry pan down and the rice up throughout.
So anyway, long story short I did cook my curry on a rather low heat and taking 50% longer than Chinois does on his video. The result wasn't cracking if I'm honest. It was swimming in oil (I spooned off about 3 TBS at the end) and the flavour was nothing to write home about. I'm assuming this is because I didn't get my pan sizzling.
Anyhow, this is what it looked like - I'll give it another try some other day.
(image attached)
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OMG mate did you eat that :o :D
I remember the first Curry I made and like you got myself in a right o'l state !
Next time just concentrate on 1 dish at a time and reheat it all when all the dishes are finished.
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natterjack - love the fact that you were willing to do this post - keep on working away at it, you have plenty base by the sound of it.
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Ha - I'm not proud! Still not sure why it ended up so oily though, the pic was taken after I'd spooned off 3 tbs excess oil at the end of cooking.
Anyway I'm probably in trouble with Chinois now for giving his recipe a bad name by association with my cock up, but things can only get better in future attempts.
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Next time just concentrate on 1 dish at a time and reheat it all when all the dishes are finished.
This is good advice. Start with the rice and then transfer it to a small roasting dish and leave it in the oven to keep it warm. this will allow you to concentrate on the next dish.
I run on an electric hob and turn the heat full up to preheat, then turn down to half. The oil is then put in and off I go. Allowing everything to preheat will give you better control.
I don't know if this is any help, but when I tried the ABC recipes, I started as the book suggests, at a basic dish first, to get the hang of it. From this, I then progressed on to the more technical dishes. This might help you get a better feeling for the cooking in hand. It's not so much about specific times but adjusting accordingly to heat and ingredients in the pan.
It's hard to tell form the pic but the base should be watered down quite a bit. Having a thicker base like the Kushi, can lave you caking up your curry if you add and too much and reduce the volume down. This I learnt the hard way.
Chin up natterjak, if I had a pound for every blunder I have made in the kitchen, I wouldn't have to be cooking my own curries, i'd already have bought my own BIR! ;)
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Hi natterjack
Don't know the base and recipe you were using, but as for the excess oil, how much oil did you put into the pan to start with?
Is the base an oily one?
Were the onions/peppers pre-cooked/fried?
Were any other oily ingredients like the Bunjara/onion paste added?
I've found all these add oil to the curry, so I think sometimes you have to compensate for these when cooking.
If it's an oily base I don't put too much oil into the pan to start with - 1 to 1 1/2 Tblsp.
Normally I only use about 2 Tblsp of oil max, with a low oil base.
If you pre-cook/fry veg don't use too much oil, or remove as much as possible before use.
When I made the Bunjara I skimmed off as much oil as possible from it before jarring it up.
Even then I still tipped out more oil after it had settled in the jar for a bit.
Must add I didn't store it in the jar so no oil was added on top, I froze it shortly after.
The oil was put into a small jug and allowed to settle, so any bits sunk, and only the clear oil from the top was used to start a curry.
Anyway hope that helps, that is just my way of doing things, it might not be totally correct, but I don't like my curries with too much oil, so you have to skim it off the final dish.
Cheers
Martin
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Hi natterjack, persevere, at least you know things cant go much worse next time. You have more patience than me, i have been looking at the bunjarra recipes for ages here but never can seem to find the get up and go to have a bash at it, so well done for that :)
How did the post it notes taste? ive never tried them curried, do they dissolve as a thinckening agent or add texture to the sauce?
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Hi NJ,
Well done mate for posting a "failure", many wouldn't. Very refreshing to see an honest account. We always see the success stories but rarely see the "cock up's" much kudos!
A tip for rice, cook it up in large batches, then portion out into the plastic takeaway tubs. Cool it down as quick as you can, then freeze.
When you need rice, simply place frozen rice into the microwave (900w) cook on high for one minute, stir and cook again for two further minutes. The rice should be absolutely steaming when served. For me, this method produces better results, than fresh rice straight from the pan, invaluable when you have a few dishes on the go.
Another tip, if I may? why not try one of the little camping stoves like this one http://www.stephensandbower.com/2010/12/choosing-the-right-camping-stove/ (http://www.stephensandbower.com/2010/12/choosing-the-right-camping-stove/)
You can pick these up for about a fiver. It will give you a little more control than you have with your electric hob! I think the canisters are about a quid?
Ray :)
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Next time just concentrate on 1 dish at a time and reheat it all when all the dishes are finished.
It's hard to tell form the pic but the base should be watered down quite a bit. Having a thicker base like the Kushi, can lave you caking up your curry if you add and too much and reduce the volume down. This I learnt the hard way.
Chin up natterjak, if I had a pound for every blunder I have made in the kitchen, I wouldn't have to be cooking my own curries, i'd already have bought my own BIR! ;)
Yep, base sauce was thinned before being used in the curry. I think the main reason for the poor result was lack of temperature, meaning I was more boiling than frying the bunjara and base sauce. I'm not really discouraged, I'll have another crack and as suggested will get the rice done and in a warm oven so I can fully focus on the curry.
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Hi natterjack
Don't know the base and recipe you were using, but as for the excess oil, how much oil did you put into the pan to start with?
Is the base an oily one?
Were the onions/peppers pre-cooked/fried?
Were any other oily ingredients like the Bunjara/onion paste added?
I've found all these add oil to the curry, so I think sometimes you have to compensate for these when cooking.
If it's an oily base I don't put too much oil into the pan to start with - 1 to 1 1/2 Tblsp.
Normally I only use about 2 Tblsp of oil max, with a low oil base.
If you pre-cook/fry veg don't use too much oil, or remove as much as possible before use.
Thanks Martin. Yep all the base preparations have oil in, the garlic / ginger paste and bunjara had extra oil added for storage as Chinois advices a layer of oil on top helps preserve them. Also the oil from the top of the bunjara is used to start the jalrezi off, so the bunjara taste infuses the whole dish.
This is probably why I suffered excess oil and can be adjusted next time. In particular I found adding oil to the bunjara didn't so much form a layer on top as just dilute and mix in with the rest of the bunjara, so it was especially oily.
I didn't prefry the chiilies and onion, just added them 2nd (after garlic) and gave them a min before carrying on with the rest of the recipe as per Chinois's madras video.
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Hi natterjack, persevere, at least you know things cant go much worse next time.
Oh I'm sure they can and I might even prove it. :D
You have more patience than me, i have been looking at the bunjarra recipes for ages here but never can seem to find the get up and go to have a bash at it, so well done for that :)
How did the post it notes taste? ive never tried them curried, do they dissolve as a thinckening agent or add texture to the sauce?
Bunjara wasn't too hard to make actually. I used the slow cooker so just left the onions to do their stuff for 8 or 9 hours, following which they're caramelised nicely. It's the low stress option rather than taking the risk of burning them in a frying pan.
I found the Post It(tm) notes a good source of fibre, but the colouring is made with Sudan 1 and hence can't really be considered up to BIR standard.
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Hi NJ,
Well done mate for posting a "failure", many wouldn't. Very refreshing to see an honest account. We always see the success stories but rarely see the "cock up's" much kudos!
Hi Ray. Well one of the benefits of being a self-declared beginner is I have no ego about these things and feel no need to compete. I'd rather admit to the mistakes and learn from others. Mind you, the first time I cook a stonking curry I guess I will be on here bragging about it, so cancel the ego comment.
A tip for rice, cook it up in large batches, then portion out into the plastic takeaway tubs. Cool it down as quick as you can, then freeze.
When you need rice, simply place frozen rice into the microwave (900w) cook on high for one minute, stir and cook again for two further minutes. The rice should be absolutely steaming when served. For me, this method produces better results, than fresh rice straight from the pan, invaluable when you have a few dishes on the go.
Interesting, I didn't know you could safely store and reheat cooked rice, something about food poisoning which doesn't get killed by reheating? Can't remember the details but if you've been doing this a while and haven't died yet maybe I should give it a go.
Another tip, if I may? why not try one of the little camping stoves like this one http://www.stephensandbower.com/2010/12/choosing-the-right-camping-stove/ (http://www.stephensandbower.com/2010/12/choosing-the-right-camping-stove/)
You can pick these up for about a fiver. It will give you a little more control than you have with your electric hob! I think the canisters are about a quid?
Ray :)
I actually have one of those camping stoves, if only I can find it. I wouldn't have thought it would give enough gas flow for a truly sizzling hot frying pan though as they always seem a bit weedy. Maybe that's just because they're used outdoors and the heat blows away.
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Hi NJ,
I can't remember the exact details on rice but I know that my method derives from the info I sought at the time. I think you have a 20 minute window to get it cooled down (below 5c), then freeze it. As long as you get it past 80c when you reheat it, it seems to be safe!
I've been doing it for years, and I'm pretty sure the TA's and BIR's do something similar, and I've never suffered from an upset tummy.
With regards to the camping stove, I did a BBQ at a friends house last summer, and I used one if these stoves with a wok to cook up a curry sauce. It was excellent, plenty of heat output for what you need. Using it indoors would be even better I guess.
All the best,
Ray :)
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natterjak,
loving your honest reports. for me it's crucial to go wrong in order to go right.
for me it's not temperature. i can chuck everything in my pan and just let it cook - just like dipuraja. it will produce a decent curry that you'd offer to friends. yes heat is something to consider but once the basics are sorted.
i would read through BE's post for a bit of background http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2815
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2815)
it's very difficult to pinpoint what's going wrong. i would never use the oil from bunjarra though to cook - just use plain veg oil for starters.
after that you need to pick off each part of the jigsaw and ask when you need ie each particular aspect from start to finish. for me CA's recipes are well proven and top notch.
ps it took me 3 months to get comfortable and i'm still learning
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I too reheat rice that has been in the fridge. I make sure its piping hot when brought out of the microwave and have never had a bad tummy. Also bear in mind that Chinese fried rice is made from cold cooked rice.
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Hi natterjak
Great post, I bet you have already learnt a lot from this.
I bet the next time you try, if you do what the others have suggested and focus on one thing at a time to start, you will surprise yourself with some great results!
Take your time, and do not go mad on the heat to start with. Better to calm the heat down and watch what happens at each stage of the cook while you find your feet.
All the best
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Ok, someone said persevere (or was it that I was perverse?), so anyway tonight I had another crack at it. Same recipe, same ingredients except I reduced the oil at the start of the dish to 2 tbs and made sure the pan was very hot before I started frying garlic.
I should have listened to Axe and solarspace amongst others because I over did it with the heat and as soon as the garlic hit the pan I knew I had to act fast to stop things burning. I really could have done with using 3 tbs of oil as the recipe says because by the time the curry and chilli powders hit the pan things were looking very dry. BUT... by whipping through my cue sheet ignoring the timings just adding ingredients as required to keep the action in the pan going and to stop anything burning I managed to achieve an end result much better than before. It even looked like a curry!
At the end of the recipe I still had a bit too much oil on the surface of the dish so I may reduce the amount of oil-rich bunjara I add next time. The taste was pretty good, maybe 7 out of 10 but one thing I noticed was that on the plate water separated out of the curry and gathered amongst the rice. I spooned off about 5 or 6 tbs from the plate. What would cause this?
All in all a big improvement and definately a curry I wouldn't have been disappointed with if served at a restaurant, so very pleasing progress. :)
Loving close up photo follows.
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water separated out of the curry and gathered amongst the rice. I spooned off about 5 or 6 tbs from the plate. What would cause this?
It's hard to say without knowing exactly what you cooked and how. Did you use pre-cooked chicken? Did you use pre-cooked peppers? Chicken from supermarks is generally pumped full of water (and other various cocktails) to make it look plump. When cooked in a pan, the water releases from the meat. Peppers also contain quite alot of moisture.
I'm glad your happier with tonight's results. I've had some real highs, but all of these were preceded by many lows.
Jerry summed it up nicely, you learn from mistakes than anything else. Unless of course you have a friendly Bangladeshi BIR Chef to hand , which I don't sadly.
Onwards and upwards. :)
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hey natterjak - this looks much better than your earlier post - as for the water - pre-cooking veg by frying first can help especially if you've a lot in the curry, e.g. onions, peppers etc. I wonder if your base is the right consistency, e.g. not too watery. I usually go for a "soup" texture. It's hard to find the right words, but not too thin and not too gloopy.
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water separated out of the curry and gathered amongst the rice. I spooned off about 5 or 6 tbs from the plate. What would cause this?
It's hard to say without knowing exactly what you cooked and how. Did you use pre-cooked chicken? Did you use pre-cooked peppers? Chicken from supermarks is generally pumped full of water (and other various cocktails) to make it look plump. When cooked in a pan, the water releases from the meat. Peppers also contain quite alot of moisture.
Hi, chicken, onions and green chillis were all cooked from raw within the pan. I didn't have any green sweet peppers so left them out. My base sauce was thinned with water to the consistency of milk as per the directions in Chinois's video.
Not sure how I can end up with too much oil floating on the top and also too much water in it, surely as the water boils off the oil comes through. I'm just going to have to try this a few more times and see what effect varying the oil and water content has.
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natterjak,
for bunjarra i use 50ml veg oil per 550g of onion - you don't need loads of oil to get the best taste.
water in the cooked dish is something i don't like myself at all. i think it's down to not cooking the dish long enough to evaporate off the excess water that the onion in the base can't retain. either use less thin base or longer cooking are the 1st things to try.
on the frying as said previously and as you are clearly doing - the importance is to respond quickly to what the pan is say - if in doubt take it off the heat. this post might help on spice frying http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2968.0
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2968.0)
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You get oil back from the base when you cook it. The more oil in the base recipe, the more you get back. Of course if you cook the base out and skim the resulting oil floating on the surface, this will affect how much oil is actually in the base. But this is a point to consider. When you cooked the Ashoka base, did you notice any oil rise to the surface? If a base is cooked out long enough (once blended), the oil within it will rise to the surface. If you blend the oil back in or don't cook it out, then this will appear in your final dish.
I do remember you saying you put too much water in the base when making it. As Jerry says, you'd have to cook this out longer when creating the final dish. Consistency of base is something you need to experiment with, as this will have an effect on how you cook with it. The thinner the base the more reduction it requires. The thicker the base, the less time you have to work with it. It's a hard thing to explain but I make mine to a loose tomato soup if that makes any sense.
Best thing to do is take a ladle or two of base an reduce it in the pan and see how it is affected the longer you cook it and reduce it.
I always pre cook my chicken now before adding it and use an alternative method I came up with that gives great results, only my opinion of course. The advantage is that any excess moisture is drawn out but leaves the chicken succulent and tasty. If you want to take a look at it, i've listed the method here: quick Pre-cook Chicken (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5591.msg55211#msg55211)
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I cooked it again tonight, much the same result - very tasty curry but excess oil and water "leaks" out of it (filtered through the rice) when plated up. It was made from the same base sauce so understandable that the result would be the same. Next time I'll try a thicker base sauce but after the same curry 3 days on the trot it's time for a brief interlude.
One thing I did include for the first time in tonight's version was the teaspoon of MSG which features in Chinois's recipe. Does it make a difference? Oh yeah! Hard to explain the difference but it was like it amplified all my tastebuds. As I was eating it I had forgotten the MSG was in and was wondering to myself why it tasted so yummy and satisfying. I know it's controversial and some people hate the idea of cooking with MSG but I'm a convert and will include it from now on.
Oh and Axe, thanks for the suggestion but I'm really loving the moist and tender chicken in my dishes at present - way better than the dried out chicken I've always found in BIR dishes so I'd prefer not to go the pre-cooked meat route at present.
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Respect to you Brother Natterjak for posting this - taken me nearly 20 years of disasters to get to a stage I am happy with - and there are still a few disasters every now and again when I get over confident or try experimenting. ;D
Not au-fait with the Chinois or Ashoka stuff - but respect for you starting off on what sounds a relatively tricky recipe. I've never braved a bunjarra myself.
Can't add much to what much wiser heads have offered - but I think some of the other base/recipe combos may a bit more straight forward.
I'm loving the Taz base at the moment and all Cory Ander' recipes, Stephen Lindsays' and the Zeera madras (off the top of my head) are really clearly set-down and the stages are easy to follow - good luck in your quest mate!
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and water "leaks" out of it (filtered through the rice) when plated up.
Just reporting back on this, the separation of water on the plate was certainly due to a faulty base. I can say that with confidence now I've cooked with a new batch of base which showed no such signs of leaking. I assume my first batch of base wasn't blended sufficiently well, leading to the particle size being larger than that required to keep the water and vegetable matter together