Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: pete on October 23, 2005, 09:21 AM
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OK, I posted my demo prawn madras
I made it at home and got a very close result
CK & Yellow Fingers tried it and it clearly wasn't what they were aiming for
I think Curry Queen and Mark were trying too
Tell me what happened, I can take it
All I can say is that what I described is exactly what they did.
I still have a small sample of the restaurant curry base
KD's really does look identical but there still is a little something that is not exact.
The same difference is noticable in the finished curry.
This "something" is in the home made curry base but not it's quite as strong
I think CK said something along those lines
So any changes I make, will not be to the methods of cooking the curry, but to the base.
I know that everything else we are doing is exactly right.
I am sure this can be done at home
See picture
KD's sauce is the red arrow
http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kdandcurryhousegravy7dz.jpg
Actually, looking really close
The genuine curry gravy looks more jellied.
Chicken Jelly?
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Hi Pete,
Yes I didn't have much luck with the KD base at all, I made another batch of my usual yesterday but decided to cut right back on the spice.? I added a desert spoon of turmeric and spice mix and a teaspoon each of coriander and cummin.? A few other things I did differently was to add about qtr of a lemon to the base, this was a noticeable change, not so much a lemon taste but it added a zing to it.? As a test I also ground some fenugreek seeds and added some to my regular BE spice mix which also added what I can best describe as a smokey\burnt taste\smell, this might be down to the fact that they were roasted and ground just before using.?
I made a chicken bhuna with the modified spice mix and vindaloo with regular and both were fantastic, i'm satisfied that my curry is up to a restaurant standard but different if you know what I mean.? When you go to a new takeaway and try the vindaloo there is something different in there than your usual.? I think that might be some of the problem trying to exactly replicate a particular takeaway rather than just trying to make a nice restaurant style curry.
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I've made a couple of curries now with this batch of KD sauce and I'm finding that the raw taste of the garlic and ginger is too noticeable. It won't be any time soon, but when I make my next batch I'm going to fry the garlic and ginger first. I'm also going to leave out the bit of carrot and green pepper that I added as Pete reckons this didn't help.
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Hi Pete,
Ill give a full report when I get a mo, but in summary a good curry with some of the taste (not sure) but not quite there.
I think the skimmed oil is the way to go, but probably from a base with just a little more spice than KD's
cheers
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Didn't get chance Pete to try the curry although I made KDs base. Will try it out in the next couple of days. I am glad to hear at last that some people are recognising that by using more oil in base and then taking it off and reusing it to start a curry is the way to go. I have used this method for years. Use a little more than needed and then skim off at the end and reuse again. Definately makes a big, big difference.
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Hi curryqueen
I know we've had this diuscussion before, the group that is, and I totally agree with you that reusing the oil from the base is beneficial to the 'taste'. I also use the oil skimmed from each curry and put that into a pot to cook the next curry in and that is even better. I think Pete does this too. ( Hey admin, I only know this because I had to read the 'other' forum's posts while cr0 was down again this morning! Come on Stew we need a mirror, talking across forums is impossible.) Yes I know, many people here do that too, but a restaurant can't be doing this because the oil would eventually be so concentrated with chilli it would be unusable for mild curries. So re-using oil from curries is great, but it isn't what the restaurants do!
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re-using oil from curries is great, but it isn't what the restaurants do!
I promise you, this is what they do
Maybe not all restauarnts do it, but certainly three out of the four I have seen recently.
The oil is not "chilli hot" either, it is just spicy savoury.
I have seen one restaurant scoop out the excess oil, from a cooked curry,and put it back into the gravy too.
I'm sure these methods were originally done to keep costs down.
It's by chance that they enhance the flavour.
I cooked two curries last Saturday and salvaged the extra oil, from the first, and put it back in my oil pot.
The second curry was far better than the first
I think that this oil recycling improves the oil each time.
There must come a point when it's unusable though
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The oil is not "chilli hot" either, it is just spicy savoury.
I don't have any argument with that, as long as you are referring to the oil scooped from the base sauce.
I have seen one restaurant scoop out the excess oil, from a cooked curry,and put it back into the gravy too.
This is where I have a problem. There is just no way a restaurant can be doing this on a regular basis. If you don't believe me, try this. Next time you make a vindaloo save some of the oil from it. Next day, when it's cooled, just taste a bit. You'll find that it is really chilli hot.
Now if they are scooping oil from curries all night, back into the base sauce pot or oil pot, eventually it isn't going to be palatable to those customers who just can't bear chilli heat.
Another strange thing about reusing the oil is that quite a few people here have seen curries cooked with fresh oil and yet they have still had the 'taste'. So either the reuse of oil is not related to the taste, or one person's idea of the 'taste' must be different to another.
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The logic of a lot of this sounds a bit doubtful. Agreed that spice flavours are soluble in oil - you only have to taste or smell skimmed oil to confirm this. But it seems rather pointless to add extra oil at one stage of cooking to { so removing some flavour} only to return it at a later stage. A curry needs to be saturated with oil, so use enough, no more.If the finished dish is running with oil, it follows that some flavour is wasted. Ideally, the oil should be just floating to the surface at the end of cooking. Some chefs call this cooking til the colour change, ie when coloured oil starts to appear.
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Hi Yellowfingers, I have been taking the oil from the top of curries and putting them all into a bottle and mixing them. The aroma and smell when you use it again when making a curry is absolutely fantastic - you would think you were actually sitting in a BIR. This I have pointed out quite a few months ago, I think it was when ghanna was about.
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Another strange thing about reusing the oil is that quite a few people here have seen curries cooked with fresh oil and yet they have still had the 'taste'. So either the reuse of oil is not related to the taste, or one person's idea of the 'taste' must be different to another.
Yes, this puzzles me too
One chef, who gave me recipes, said he used only fresh oil.
But I have never seen a chef, take fresh oil from a bottle, when cooking
They seem to have these ghee pots full of old oil
It is quite surprising how similar all these kitchens seem to be
I would guess that most things that are standard practice in one kitchen, are common in others too.
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When I had my 'lessons' in BIR cooking, all curries were cooked in oil from a pot on the stove. This was kept hot for frying onion bhajis etc. I tried this at home, but it didn't make any noticable difference. Fresh oil was used to make the base sauce. All oil skimmed from curries was thrown away.This curry house may not have been typical, though; they actually used butcher's roasting chickens and lamb legs, removing the meat and cooking it with whole spices. Their food was quite exceptional. Incidentally, the chicken carcases, which would have made excellent stock, went in the bin.
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I think what bothers me most at the moment is that three (?) people say that they've copied Pete's prawn madras and it has given them an exact restaurant copy including both taste and smell. I've tried it twice now, although my base was slightly different, and I'm definitely not achieving the taste or the smell. Particularly not the smell.
I'm seriously beginning to wonder whether we really do have the same goal in mind when it comes to the 'taste' and the 'smell' of restaurant curries. But I have had curries at several places around the UK over the years and without fail the smell and taste have been there, so I don't see how we can not be aiming for the same thing. I just don't understand it.
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Same here YF,
It's not Petes method as thats very similar to what ive been doing for a while so im putting it down to the base, it just doesn't do it for me and ive been having very good results with other bases for years now so im sure its not my technique :o
The curry I made following the Dhillion base to the letter and Petes method was ok but as you say no smell or taste there for me. I think Pete's right in that we all need to get together, we should bring 2 currys, one of which should be from your favorite BIR and the other your closest homemade BIR curry to date. Then I think we will see what we aiming for and how close we all are.
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I have to say here, that the people using this forum are from different parts of the country, as well as from different parts of the world. English BIRs seem to cook lets say a madras in the midlands different to that here in the south. Therefore I cannot see how we can honestly replicate our fave BIR madras when all expectancies are different to each other and using one anothers recipes. Unless of course you live in the same area.
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Petes reused oil base sounds interesting, and i will be trying it this weekend.
But the question is; what happens to the oil when its reused?
Restaurants make huge amounts of base and if it isn?t used up in
one evening, then it will go into the fridge, the KD base can be kept upto
4 days in fridge? What would 4 day old base taste like compared with newly
made base? Im sure it would have time to mature, maybe this is the answer,
a concerntrated garlic, ginger, and onion base? After all thats basically what
reusing the oil does?
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I have to say here, that the people using this forum are from different parts of the country, as well as from different parts of the world.
Hi curryqueen
Well first of all I don't care about the opinions of people from other parts of the world, unless of course they have sampled a reasonable amount of curries in standard Indian restaurants from different parts of the UK, or at the very least had a few curries from Indian restaurants in one part of the UK.
I know that sounds nasty, but I don't care. I don't partake in 'the pain of childbirth' forum, for example. The reason? Because I've never experienced the real thing.
But to answer your main point, and I've said it so many times now that I'm even boring myself. No matter where I've had a curry in the UK, they have, irrespective of the actual quality of the curry, had the same smell and underlying taste. It is unique to the indian restaurant curry and it is what I am trying to copy.
I'm still trying to find one of these curry houses that actually do not have the smell and taste I am talking about. I have never been to a restaurant that verges toward 'authentic' Indian cuisine, nor do I have any desire to. Perhaps this is why I have a very definite idea of what the 'smell' and 'taste ' is?
English BIRs seem to cook lets say a madras in the midlands different to that here in the south.
I agree totally. But, in my experience at least, they will have a common smell and taste. One may be hotter, may have more veg, may have a? smoother sauce, may have less oil, may have tomato pieces, may be darker in colour. They still have the same underlying taste and smell.
Now unless in my travels across the country I have just happened, by sheer chance, to pick on the restaurants that conform to my idea of the 'smell' and the 'taste', I have to conclude that the smell and taste that I mean is universal, at least within the UK.
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I think Pete's right in that we all need to get together
I have to agree. I see no way to resolve the 'taste' and 'smell' debate unless we do. Somewhere in the midlands?
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I think Pete's right in that we all need to get together
I have to agree. I see no way to resolve the 'taste' and 'smell' debate unless we do. Somewhere in the midlands?
Yeah I might be up for that we would have to see what the interest would be from the rest of the forum?
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The BIR isnt confined to Britain, you have to realise that the humble curry you buy in your local takeway had travelled to europe and far beyond. You will and can get restaurant curries made by U.K trained chefs in other parts of world.
In Sweden I know for a fact atleast one restaurant that has a U.K trained indian chef, not that i ask every where they were trained.
The point is, of course, there are variations, and pete talks about a common taste, the type of curry we are trying to recreate
is an english curry that?s being exported all over Europe +, even to India itself! We all know CTM is english., even Madras is too.
Now it?s being served in India.
it?s what non traditional restaurants make, generally. Although there are other curries that are restaurant and not BIR, you?ll find the BIR, is an english phenomenen that had spread even to Australia. The variations are a part evolution.
Once the secret of the BIR is common knowledge, I would predict that something equally impressive will take its place. Shame restaurants have settled for the BIR taste, because i know of even better restaurant curries that are even harder to recreate.
But the aim is the BIR and I will try a little harder if I believe its possible to get closer to "the taste".
It is thanks to ppl who spend so much time trying to recreate it, like pete, Mark, CK and Curry Queen, Darth and all the rest of you curry animals that this site exists, and is so interesting. Lets see what ppl can contribute towards "the taste" instead of finding the negative with other ppls efforts. Lets pull together and help those trying hard to get that taste to the rest of us.
Keep up the good work!
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Yeah I might be up for that we would have to see what the interest would be from the rest of the forum?
I would like to see whether we are as good (or bad) as we think we are
We've got to be able to bring a homemade curry along with a restaurant version we want it to be like.
We can't meet in a park so where could we do it?
How about Birmingham?