Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Peripatetic Phil on January 12, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Noticing that the Ham's base included black cardamom, which I had recently bought for the first time, I tried adding one to a curry but could not really discern what difference, if any, it made. So today I am planning to add another, but this time I am thinking of either giving it a gentle whack with the side or back of the cleaver, or perhaps a /very/ short spin in the spice grinder. The idea, of course, is to encourage it to give up more flavour to the sauce.
Ham, in your "Base Sauce Ingredients" page, you write of adding both black and green cardamom, but make no mention of doing anything to them prior to adding them to the sauce. Would you (and others) recommend gently breaking them up first, or are they best left whole ?
** Phil.
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Interesting one this, and maybe only ham can truly answer the question regarding his own base. On a similar note, I recall some discussions about the use of whole cinnammon in the Ashoka bunjarra (onion paste) recipe and Panpot confirmed that the intention was to remove it after the frying of the onions was completed. However I also recall that one member made the bunjarra and blitzed the cinnammon with onions to his satisfaction. Can't remember who is was am thinking it might have been Ray but I may be wrong about that also.
When using cardamoms and other aromatic spices such as cloves and star anise I have tended to follow the home cookery method or leaving them whole and fishing them out at the end.
In my first endeavours to replicate BIR dishes I eventually discovered that it was the almost "perfumy" aroma/flavour of things like cardamom and cinnamon that were unintentionally leading me away from the BIR approach and so I have pretty much stopped using them unless a particular recipe calls for it.
I know this doesn't answer your question Phil, but just thought my take on it might be helpful.
Steve
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Hi Phil,
I've got a jar of the black cardamom pods but have so far not used them. I thought in the KD1 book her recipe for garam masala included these?
Like Stephen said I don't normally use the heavily aromatic spices for BIR cooking. I do use green cardamom, clove, cinnamon etc. in my traditional keema peas curry but although that is nice it doesn't taste very BIR.
Let us know how you get on with them.
Paul
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Hi Phil,
I have used green cardamoms when I used to make the Kushi Balti base but, there was no need to crack them or anything, as the opened slightly during the prolonged cooking. I'm guessing the same thing would happen with the black ones?
Hi Stephen,
I think if I recall, when I had a go at PP's bunjara, I used ground cinnamon?
I fancy giving Hams base a go tonight but I'm gonna have another read of it and see if there's anything needs answering first.
Ray :)
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Ray,
dont forget to use less salt mate, if you are doing Hams base tonight.
regards
Alan ;D
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Hi Al,
How much salt would you suggest mate. The recipe only asks for 3 tsp (1 tbs)
Don't think i'll get round to it tonight now.
Ray
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Hi Stephen it was myself who blended the cinnamon stick in once cooked - was lovely
Garry
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Ray,
I honestly wouldnt put more in than 1.5 tsp mate.
i mentioned before that it produces the same quantity as your base recipe( i was wrong) when i measured it out it only produces just over half the base sauce of your recipe.
regards
Alan ;D
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Hi Al,
when i measured it out it only produces just over half the base sauce of your recipe.
Yeah, sounds about right. That's what worries me, if I double up on the quantities. I'd have to use at least 10 - 12 black cardamoms and 16 green ones. That frightens the life out of me :o Surely the 1 inch piece of cinnamon would get lost in all that cardamom.
Dunno ???
Ray :)
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I would probably stick to Hams quants for your first go Ray.
like you say just doubling up doesnt always work!!
regards
Alan ;D
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OK, here's what I did. Cut two black cardamom in half, to find that just like green cardamom there are little seeds inside, and of course it is the seeds and not the husk that contribute most of the flavour. Heated 8 tablespoons of 5:3 oil, and fried the cut-in-half cardamom for a bit (inc. seeds, of course). Poured in 1/2 pint of chicken stock with ginger and brought to the boil. Added 1/2 pint of KD1 base, brought to the boil, then turned off. The cardamom will now steep in there until I am ready to make tonight's curry, which will probably be at about 21:50 after collecting Khanh from the station. Should be ready just in time for the Chinese historical drama Di Renjie on CCTV-4 at 22:10 :)
** Phil.
P.S. Ray : you've mentioned liking a little sweetness in your curries in the past; have you tried adding Amchoor ?
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like you say just doubling up doesnt always work!!
Hahaha, undone by one of my own sayings lol ;D
Ray ;D
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Hi Phil,
P.S. Ray : you've mentioned liking a little sweetness in your curries in the past; have you tried adding Amchoor ?
I do have a bag of amchoor in my cupboard but have never used it. I was always under the impression that mango powder was used to add a little 'sourness' to a dish?
Well, ya live an learn.
Ray :)
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I do have a bag of amchoor in my cupboard but have never used it. I was always under the impression that mango powder was used to add a little 'sourness' to a dish?
Well, ya live an learn.
You may well be right : on looking at the web, "adding sourness" just about sums it up, yet when I first used it I was convinced it made the dish sweeter. Ah well, I shall have to try some again tomorrow : I've already meddled with two independent variables (chicken+ginger stock, kala elachi) and if I meddle with a third (amchoor) I will have no idea which is responsible for which element(s) of the taste ...
Update : not a success. Adding 50% chicken+ginger stock made no significant improvement to the flavour and ruined the texture -- the resulting sauce was too thin, and thus the chicken overcooked while the stock was reducing. Le Khanh didn't like the black cardamom (she doesn't even like green cardamom, so there was little hope of her liking the black), and while the amchoor added a certain sourness which was "interesting", the curry was definitely not one of my best. Ah well, back to KD1 base + KD1/PT Madras !
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Hi Stephen it was myself who blended the cinnamon stick in once cooked - was lovely
Garry
I knew it was one of the regulars but couldn't remember who - cheers gazman!
Steve
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Hi Folks,
A couple of weekends ago I spent a Saturday morning in a IR here in Brisbane with the Chef/Owner watching him make is base gravy.
He used 12kg dried onions, which would probably equate to 24+kg fresh onions. After cooking the onions and then adding spice powders and tomato paste after 3 hours cooking, he then blended to his desired consistency, and then added whole spices, which he then left for another hour cooking.
He leaves the whole spices in the base, but removes before they go out to the customer.
Now for that amount of onions, he added only 4-5 black cardamoms, a couple of cinamon sticks and 3-4 star anise.
So I would say be wary of just multiplying out whole spices. From another chef I know very well who works at a Hare Krishna restaurant here, it just doesn't work that way.
Cheers,
Mark
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I notice Stephen mentioning that cinnamon, green cardamom are 'perfumy' and I had categorized spices in a similar way myself - I called those plus cloves, star anise etc "sweet" or "fragrant" and their 'counterparts': black cardamom, Jeera, Methi, black pepper, mustard seed as "dark" spices. Sort of yin and yang. I have noticed BIR curries as fragrant or dark too - New Asia restaurant in Earls Court (circa 1960 ha ha!) did a really 'dark' lamb curry which was absolutely delicious. The restaurant was pretty dark too, but I never had a tummy upset from there. Actually, come to think of it I never yet had a tummy upset from an Indian restaurant anywhere - and I have eaten some pretty grim curries.
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Come to think of it I never yet had a tummy upset from an Indian restaurant anywhere - and I have eaten some pretty grim curries.
Ah, I know of a certain Indian restaurant on the outskirts of Paris where you may succeed in breaking your record :) (Details removed in deference to the sensibilities of other forum members).
** Phil.
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the poor bird that we ate there had been festering in their kitchen, but there was no way that even Tandoori spicing could disguise the taste and smell of putrefaction ![/sub]
What a talent you have for whetting the appetite ... pity I just ate me dinner.
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What a talent you have for whetting the appetite ... pity I just ate me dinner.
Sorry, Spotty : hope your dinner was well and truly digested before my message arrived :(
** Phil.
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hope your dinner was well and truly digested before my message arrived
Yes, it looked to have been pretty well digested, thanks.