Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Derek Dansak on January 11, 2011, 12:58 PM
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Whats the general concensus on how things will progress on this forum. Thought it would be interesting to hear other members views on 1) if future breakthroughs will come from some improved final curry recipies, or 2) improvements in the base, or 3) a combination of both 1 and 2.
I feel i need to understand the base a bit better, and then tweak my recipies to get where i want to be.
What do other members think ?
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Although not directly an answer to your question, I do not believe that there is still a missing link to be discovered (no secret ingredient, no secret style of cooking, and so on). I personally believe that there is now sufficient information in the public domain (including on this forum) to allow the average home chef to re-create a basic BIR curry without difficulty, and to get to within (say) 95%. As to whether we yet have enough information to re-create all of the standard dishes, I am less certain, simply because I restrict my home curry preparation to a basic Madras style, and I am less certain whether I could re-create (say) a Chicken Bombay or a Chicken Bhuna with the same degree of accuracy and success. As to tandoori, I last cooked this for guests about eighteen months ago, using a domestic charcoal barbecue, and the recipes I used (which differ between Chicken Tikka and Tandoori Chicken) were the result of multiple refinements and fine-tuning over time. The results were as close as I have ever got to complete authenticity, and were (in my opinion) somewhere between 85% and 90%.
But to answer your real question, I am confident that the answer is "both". We have already see over the last few days that Ham's base with black cardamom is both attracting attention and attracting praise; but a base alone cannot make a curry, any more than can the final preparation and spicing.
My two penn'orth, for what it's worth.
** Phil.
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Snip...
But to answer your real question, I am confident that the answer is "both". We have already see over the last few days that Ham's base with black cardamom is both attracting attention and attracting praise; but a base alone cannot make a curry, any more than can the final preparation and spicing.
My two penn'orth, for what it's worth.
** Phil.
Hi
For what its worth I agree with Phil, although my efforts will be 90% recipe refinement and 10% base tweakage.
From the knowledge and recipes on this forum, and the books we all know about I was able to produce a 100% Chicken Tikka Jalfrezi last Saturday night. It was absolutely spot on and up there with any of the best from any restaurant. However, I cannot say the same for my Vindaloos. They are very nice, very nice indeed but still sit at 85% to 90% - they are just not the same. This must be down to something like recipe refinement?
Cheers guys
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and now someone says about black cardamoms in the base when my rajver revisited base contains it with the whole spices listed. and i posted that so many years ago!
gary ???
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DD,
for me it's 100% No 1 - recipe refinement.
i do think though that it really is each to their own on this though - members have varying levels/areas of expertise along with differing expectations and consequently widely varying needs.
i still can't believe how far ranging views remain and we seem collectively further away from our goal than in the past.
i'd also add a No 3 - Technique.
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and now someone says about black cardamoms in the base when my rajver revisited base contains it with the whole spices listed. and i posted that so many years ago!
gary ???
I'm sorry, Gary, if I failed to give you proper credit : mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
** Phil.
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DD, I believe we still need to find a Base Sauce that the majority of the Forum would agree to being BIR and this Base used on a regular basis by Forum members with their chosen Curry Recipe and the results shared on the Forum. It seems to me we are all plodding along week in and week out doing our own thing and not really gaining much ground :(
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I'm with Jerry. You take any of our bases into a BIR kitchen and ask the chef to use it to make your favorite curry I bet it tastes bloody brilliant. I also don't think we need to worry about recipes either, I think they are 100% right. Between us we have spoken to dozens of chefs and watched lots of BIR videos, I really don't think say a Madras has more that 6 or 7 ingredients in it. Possibly less in some cases.
I used to get really angry when Indian chefs would tell me Onion Bhajis are the easiest thing to make. Just chop the onions, add the spices and flour and make a batter, make into balls and deep fry. It sounds simple but it still took a year, and Axe's IG experience before I was able to crack it. The thing is, they were right, it is that simple as long as you chop the onions correctly, add the spices in the correct order, the right amount of flour and have the oil at the right temperature to be able to cook them for the correct amount of time. I'm certain the same goes for the curry cooking, once we know the secret we'll be there.
Axe - get yourself back to IG fast!!!
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emin-j i agree totally. its about time we worked a little more as a group. Nothing to strict mind ! ;D how about striving towards a single base and a madras recipe to go with it? surely we could all agree on a base thats very suited to only madras. then work together to find a decent madras recipe. what do other members think on this. with all our experience we must be able to improve on what we individually know.
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emin-j i agree totally. its about time we worked a little more as a group. Nothing to strict mind ! ;D how about striving towards a single base and a madras recipe to go with it? surely we could all agree on a base thats very suited to only madras. then work together to find a decent madras recipe. what do other members think on this. with all our experience we must be able to improve on what we individually know.
I like this (a concerted effort) and offer one suggestion : each should compare the results with his/her own preferred base/recipe for Chicken Madras, then score both on a scale of 0 to 10, where 0 = "Disgusting : looks, tastes and smells like doggy poo" and 10 = "Superb : could not be bettered in any way", then provide an analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the two variants when compared to the other.
** Phil.
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sounds just like the curry recipe group tests threads
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sounds just like the curry recipe group tests threads
But much simpler, surely, Willy : only one base and one dish to prepare (plus one's own usuals), rather than several variants of the same thing all of which are unfamiliar.
** Phil.
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lets start by getting some ideas on possible contenders for a base which seems suited to madras in particular. The test would be making the base, then using your prefered madras recipe, and 1 or 2 other madras recipes other members suggest. Then we report back and try to agree on what base has potential. remember the base might evolve over time (along with the madras recipe to go with it) , so it should be just a simple base, we all agree as being a good building block base, which we can build upon. I personally found the safron base, and ashoka base, did not produce the best madras i have made. I got better results with kd style bases, which have a large amount of onion. my contender would not be the kd base though, but something along those lines.
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Hi
Good ideas here!
Personally have tried loads of bases from the site and books but always end up coming back to the CA base as I find it to be the most flexible base with regard to getting good results from a variety of dishes. Although my version of the CA base has been tweaked substantially, I would like to put forward the standard CA base as a contender for the 'breakthroughs lie with recipe refinement' project.
Edit: What is this project going to be called? - in the past various posters have severely 'done one' basically just down to the naming conventions and what they might imply being used to discuss an idea like this? - keen to avoid that kind of negativity.
Cheers all
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Edit: What is this project going to be called? - in the past various posters have severely 'done one' basically just down to the naming conventions and what they might imply being used to discuss an idea like this? - keen to avoid that kind of negativity.
I too am keen to avoid negativity, so may I make a plea that this project (and I don't actually care what it is called) requires making at most two curries at one time. Normally I would make just one, and fry a frozen paratha, just to keep things quick and simple; I think I could stretch to making two (so long as they both used the same base) but beyond that I would be likely to drop out because of the work involved.
** Phil.
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lets call the project 'madras 2011', giving us all year to come up with something improving upon what we have already. I dont mind trying CAs base with a few madras recipies. i am interested in razors base + madras also, that sounded promising. I wonder which of the 2 would be best for this project? any one compared the 2 when it comes to madras or vindaloo? both might produce a tasty curry, but which is closest to bir madras. Is CAs base similar to the safron base? I seem to remember it is?
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Hi DD,
Obviously, I'm not going to make comparisons between CA's base and mine ;D but, they are the only two that I use now, often alternating between both in turn.
I've had some very good results with CA's, and the final Madras reminds me very much of one of my local restaurants madras. That said, my madras is very similar to my favourite TA's.
My base does give up a lot of oil when making your final curry, whereas with CA's, I usually add an extra tbs when making my curry.
I really like the idea of this "group effort" and the fact that there is no particular time frame applied to it, makes it all the more appealing.
Just one question though, if I may, which/who's spice mix/curry masala are we going to use? I only ask because, if I make CA's base but use my spice mix, my curries don't taste that dissimilar to when I use my base and spice mix together. It's for this reason that I've always considered a base, as a means to get liquid/sauce into a curry, and believe that the spice mix has a bigger effect on the final flavour!
Ray :)
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emin-j i agree totally. its about time we worked a little more as a group. Nothing to strict mind ! ;D how about striving towards a single base and a madras recipe to go with it? surely we could all agree on a base thats very suited to only madras. then work together to find a decent madras recipe. what do other members think on this. with all our experience we must be able to improve on what we individually know.
That's it DD ' work as a group ' for a change ;)
I reckon with all the Curryheads on this site we should 'develop' a new Base rather than use any of the existing recipes that most of us have tried and for one reason or another didn't stick with ??? A discussion on the 'must have' ingredients would be a start and eventually we should all come to an agreement ::) :D Making the smallest amount practical as a trial to go with an established Madras Recipe so we should all at least be working on a level playing field.
In my opinion I strongly suggest we stick to 'BIR' methods (or as we would expect a BIR to work,speed of prep,max flavour for least money) quite a few of us have spent time in a BIR kitchen and Ingredients/Methods used should be favoured. :)
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I reckon with all the Curryheads on this site we should 'develop' a new Base rather than use any of the existing recipes that most of us have tried and for one reason or another didn't stick with ???
It would be interesting to know how many (or how few) have not found a base they are happy to stick with. For myself, I use KD1, every time. Yes, occasionally I vary it, like tonight (dilute with 50% chicken+ginger stock, and add kala elachi), but for my everyday run-of-the-mill curries I use KD1 base and KD1/PT Madras final spicing.
** Phil.
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I agree emin-j that we should aim for a new base we all design together. so in the long term we all arrive at a new base. To kick of with, it might be best to use an existing base, what do you guys think?
approach 1) we design a new base in the next few weeks collaboratively, and begin testing it against our favouriate madras recipes , then all report back with scores etc. Then possibly modify the base again until its acceptable.
approach 2) we pick an existing base, eg, kd1 , CAs, or razors, then all do trials with our favourate madras recipes, then report back with scores. Then begin improving the base, and madras recipe over the year as a group.
what approach sounds like the quickest, least hassle and most agreeable?
this project will work best if its kept simple and informal ! then we might actually get somewhere as a group for a change ! its stupid not collaborating more as a group, , as its our main strength. Should we start a new thread for this to alert more members? where in the cr0 web site site should the project be based?
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where in the cr0 web site site should the project be based?
I think it has to be "Curry Recipe Group Tests (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?board=97.0)"; even if it doesn''t exactly match the criteria for that category, it is so close that I can't see any justification for creating a whole new category, and there is surely no other contender.
** Phil.
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I'd go for a variant of CA's base, purely because it's so easy and, like Razor has said, most of the taste comes from the mix powder and cooking method.
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I'd go for a variant of CA's base, ...
Once we opt to go for a "variant" of anything, the time to converge on agreement for that variant is likely to be excessive. Might we not do better to agree to use an existing base, totally unmodified, for the purposes of experimenting with the final dish ? Even getting agreement on which base is likely to be time-consuming enough !
** Phil.
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there was a thread a while back regarding a CRO development base - should that be revisited?
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here's the link:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4065.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4065.0)
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I see there's a wee discussion that pertains to this topic on the thread "CA's Curry Base". I have been using the BE base for the past 6 months and prior to that the Ashoka base for the previous 12/18 months. I think the latter would be too diverse and involved for this idea though the BE has merits in it's simplicity. Doing another base would be good for me for a change! So, in terms of putting in my own efforts to a group test I am happy to go with the flow and try out any agreed base, if a consensus can be achieved.
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At the very least we would need to agree on what constitutes a very basic curry base.
What are the essential ingredients? Onions? Garlic? Ginger? Tomatoes? Capsicum? Carrots? Potatoes? Cabbage? Probably, the only agreement we could reach is that BIR bases invariably contain onions! (and even that's in doubt because, as we have seen, some don't!). And, if so, what type?! :P
And which spices/spice mix should be added? Coriander? Cumin? Paprika? Chilli? Tumeric? Garam masala? Ajwain? And how much of each? Whole or ground? And when should they be added?
And what about the tomatoes? Fresh? Puree or paste? Tinned (which type)?
And what about peoples' "personal preferences" (comparing the final dish, e.g. a madras, to their favourite local BIR)?
Throw into all of that..how much to make? What ratios? What process? How long to cook for? When to add each ingredient? Whole or ground spices? etc, etc..
I think it's all too difficult to reach any sort of concensus.
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here's the link:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4065.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4065.0)
OK, it may be that I should reply in that thread, but let's continue it here for the time being. Two comments :
1) The curry masala seems massive overkill for a base; my preferred base uses only turmeric and paprika.
2) I would not be able to justify (financially) complying with the "freshness" guidelines :
To ensure freshness, all powdered spices must have:
- A "best before" date of at least 6 months hence
- Once opened, be stored in an sterile, dry, airtight container, in a cool, dry, dark place.
- Be opened for less than 2 months prior to use
Some (most) of my pre-ground spices are way older than 2 months (since opening, that is), and their "best before" date has never been looked at (and since the packings were discarded when they were opened, I no longer have any way of retrieving that information).
I'd be very willing to participate in testing using the spices we already own (they are, of course, stored in glass jars in a dark cupboard), but I could not justify to the family accountant (a.k.a. Le Khanh) the purchase of fresh spices to replace those that we currently use and find perfectly acceptable in use.
** Phil.
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there was a thread a while back regarding a CRO development base - should that be revisited?
Hi SL,
There was a whole load of effort put precisely into trying to develop a "cr0 curry base" and a "cr0 madras" many moons ago now.
The link you provided is the summary recipe only (i.e. before JerryM's "mytake" curry base).
The original posts have been archived (for some reason that eludes me) but are still available, should Stew (Admin) wish to resurrect them.
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[snip]I think it's all too difficult to reach any sort of consensus.
There is no way we will get universal consensus, even among the currently active members, but it may be that a sufficient number are both willing and sufficiently flexible to make the idea viable, even if the test group is relatively small (say, six people).
** Phil.
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OK, it may be that I should reply in that thread, but let's continue it here for the time being. Two comments :
1) The curry masala seems massive overkill for a base; my preferred base uses only turmeric and paprika.
2) I would not be able to justify (financially) complying with the "freshness" guidelines :
QED! :-X
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Thought it would be interesting to hear other members views on 1) if future breakthroughs will come from some improved final curry recipes, or 2) improvements in the base, or 3) a combination of both 1 and 2
To answer your original question, DD, I believe it is the curry bases that are mostly lacking and that is where any "breakthrough" will primarily occur (think stock, spice infused oil, other ingredients, other methods of preparation, etc).
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[snip]I think it's all too difficult to reach any sort of consensus.
There is no way we will get universal consensus, even among the currently active members, but it may be that a sufficient number are both willing and sufficiently flexible to make the idea viable, even if the test group is relatively small (say, six people).
** Phil.
Agreed, I go along with these sentiments. I know there are going to be things personally that I would not 100% agree with, but am happy to compromise and go with the flow.
Edit:
Although it will almost certainly necessary to start with an unmodified base, I would still like to point out that with a few simple modifications, I am able to get CA's base to be sodding close to that of my local TA which does some great curry, so that is the reason why I maintain that CA's base would be a good candidate.
Cheers
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I'd be very willing to participate in testing using the spices we already own (they are, of course, stored in glass jars in a dark cupboard), but I could not justify to the family accountant (a.k.a. Le Khanh) the purchase of fresh spices to replace those that we currently use and find perfectly acceptable in use.
And therein lies another difficulty, people think they are doing the same thing (i.e. replicating a process/recipe) when they are not! :P
There appear to be far too many variables in play for members to reproduce other members' results reliably and consistently.
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And therein lies another difficulty, people think they are doing the same thing (i.e. replicating a process/recipe) when they are not! :P
Sure, but bearing in mind that this is an exercise in culinary matters rather than (say) pharmacy, just how exact do we have to be in order for the results to be valid ? Even two batches of the same spice with the same expiry date but different batch numbers may not be identical, but I still think that with a little commonsense and goodwill we can get results that are meaningful but which wouldn't be acceptable to a scientific journal such as Nature.
**Phil.
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Although it will almost certainly necessary to start with an unmodified base, I would still like to point out that with a few simple modifications, I am able to get CA's base to be sodding close to that of my local TA which does some great curry, so that is the reason why I maintain that CA's base would be a good candidate.
Could you post your "sodding close" variant in this thread so we can assess its complexity ?
** Phil.
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Sure, but bearing in mind that this is an exercise in culinary matters rather than (say) pharmacy, just how exact do we have to be in order for the results to be valid ?
If you're using "out of date" spices, Phil (amongst probably many other things), it's really a non-starter.....
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If you're using "out of date" spices, Phil (amongst probably many other things), it's really a non-starter.....
It may be a non-starter for me to participate, but if there are sufficient members who keep their spices for no more than a couple of months before junking them, it is still viable.
** Phil (who was notorious when still at work for cutting the green mould off 1-month old liver pate and then eating what was left, and who still spoons the mould out of opened jars of apricot compote and then eats the remainder !).
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Could you post your "sodding close" variant in this thread so we can assess its complexity ?
** Phil.
Hi Phil
Here is summary of my variant:
Spanish onions only.
Bruce Edwards or JB spice mix (Simple to produce, quite similar and hard to tell apart in base)
Add 1tsp chilli powder
Add some potato
1/2 the coriander
Nearly double the oil
Add 2 x Knorr chicken stock cubes
I have precise measurements for all additions, perhaps should post the whole variation somewhere if that is permitted as it is basically CA's recipe?
Cheers all
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Here is summary of my variant:
Spanish onions only.
Bruce Edwards or JB spice mix (Simple to produce, quite similar and hard to tell apart in base)
OK, for Bruce Edwards I have found
SPICE MIXTURE. Coriander / Turmeric / Cumin / Curry Powder 8:7:5:4 parts by volume. When I say level spoons, that's what I mean, so use the back of a knife to be sure that it is level.
and for JB
- 100g Mild Madras curry powder
- 100g Paprika
- 200g Haldi (Turmeric)
- 100g Dhaniya (ground coriander)
- 100g Chilli powder
- 50g Jeera (cumin)
- 50g Gram Masala
although the last one looks dubious to me : "Gram flour" or "Garam masala" ? I opt for the latter interpretation.
Add 1tsp chilli powder
Add some potato
1/2 the coriander
Nearly double the oil
Add 2 x Knorr chicken stock cubes
I have precise measurements for all additions, perhaps should post the whole variation somewhere if that is permitted as it is basically CA's recipe ?
I can't see that being a problem, so long as proper credit is given and you call it (e.g.) CA/SP's base rather than just CA's base.
Overall, it's more complex that KD1 (of course) but if you feel it as close to BIR as it is possible to get, then I'm not averse to trying it ! But I do still have reservations about
- 100g Mild Madras curry powder
and perhaps also
What is the point of adding spices in combination (curry power, garam masala) when you are also going to add them individually, I always wonder. And these days I would definitely go for Knorr Stock Pots (absolutely delicious) rather than cubes.
** Phil.
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i agree that we need to have a flexible attitude . and like others on this thread, i will go with the flow. i get the impression many will be happy to use CAs base. perhaps its time for members like me , who have never made it, to try it out and report back. If we are going to use an existing base (which seems sensible) then we should all be agreed from the start, that its good for madras. dont evaluate it as an all round base, as i can see from the spec that it would be a good all rounder, but until i make it, I dont know if its good for madras. From experience with safron base, i found that was a good all rounder, but it was not to good for madras. the kd1 base improved my madras immediately. I will reserve judgment on CAs base until i make it. hopefully next weekend. Maybe a few of us should compare razors and cas base in the coming weeks
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Hi
Good point DD :)
BTW Phil - If you ever make JB's spice mix, I recommend that you make a quarter portion - otherwise you will have a MASSIVE portion of spice mix!
Must try the stock pots too. Did intent to, but the local supermarket did not have them :(
Cheers
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No offence meant to CA but I have made his base before and for me these are the problems with it:
I don't like much fresh coriander in a base if at all; I find it makes it taste a bit sickly.
I prefer to add fresh coriander at final cooking time to taste.
Secondly I don't like putting dried fenugreek in a base. Once again I prefer to add to the final dish as and when required. This was in CA's spice mix and comes through in the base flavour.
Thirdly I'm not sure of the value of carrots, potatoes, cabbage or what have you in a base. I'm all for onions, some pepper, garlic, ginger, tomatoes and some spices.
Lately I think I've achieved my best ever savoury curries using a combination of:
Taz base with small amount of coconut block and spiced oil
Cooking with the same spiced oil
Using the onion/pepper paste in these dishes
Cutting back a little on spice mix and tom puree
The madras is still hard to crack. I bought one recently and analysed it as much as I could and would say there is a difference in spicing. I could taste a spice in the madras I bought that I don't recognise but it was moorish.
I think that by taking a simple base as a starter we could all work on final recipes.
This isn't going to be easy, is it?
Cheers,
Paul
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well pleased with the positive approach. and nothing worth doing is ever easy.
we never finished CRO2 base work which was a real shame. an option would be top start where it finished (i've no problem using any base though as a starting point).
2 things are critical to whatever base:
1) use of whole spice "sock" or muslin bag
2) the method of cooking - 2 stage
it might be of use to get a list of what members existing to do lists are for base as this might help guide the direction over the coming months.
mine for info are:
1) try lemon
2) try knorr stock cube
3) try caramelising onion (i think i already know the answer but need to be sure)
ps i really struggle with the idea that some bases suit certain dishes. if the base is "BIR" quality then it will make any dish.
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ps i really struggle with the idea that some bases suit certain dishes. if the base is "BIR" quality then it will make any dish.
I think I can see how this can come about. Basically a finished dish is a synthesis of a base and a final recipe/technique. Any change to the base will have an effect on the final recipe, and perhaps even on the final technique, if the end results are to be indistinguishable to the human palate. So if some members prefer complex curries with multiple spices (mine have three, although one of those is Bassar curry masala and therefore complex in its own right), they have the choice of adding those spices at either stage. If they elect to add the spices to the base, then clearly (?) that base will be less suitable for simpler dishes that use fewer spices. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the base is "not of BIR quality" : rather, it could well be a BIR-quality base that is suited to fewer dishes, and I think it is not impossible that in larger restaurants there may actually be more than one base available, in order to simplify (and thereby speed up) the preparation of the final dishes.
Which is why (to summarise) I think that if this idea is to succeed, the chosen base needs to be as simple as possible. If there is a simpler base than KD1, then let's go for it; but let's not go for one that is more complex.
** Phil.
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Hi Phil,
This is the Taz base link:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0)
You can't get much simpler than that. I think some cr0 members were put off because the Taz cooking method is too simple. I've returned to it after a few months and it does for me for now. You don't need to cook the curries as Taz suggested. I always fry garlic first when making curries with it.
Paul
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This is the Taz base link: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0)You can't get much simpler than that.
Agreed. My only possible objection would be to the coriander, which I have given up using in my own curries simply because they taste better without ! But I would be very happy to go along with the Taz base exactly as posted for the purposes of a group effort to create the ultimate Madras, whilst perhaps trying it without the coriander solely for my own personal research.
** Phil.
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Hi Phil,
This is the Taz base link:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0)
You can't get much simpler than that. I think some cr0 members were put off because the Taz cooking method is too simple. I've returned to it after a few months and it does for me for now. You don't need to cook the curries as Taz suggested. I always fry garlic first when making curries with it.
Paul
Hi Paul
Never tried that base. Looks like (well not a blank canvas) but at least a fairly neutral one with which to start the project!
Cheers
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Neutral base works perfectly. I'm sold, do we now discuss spice mix for the project or is that part of the experimentation?
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Hi Paul p, you have totally summed up my current stance/approach to bases and curry. Thats why i quite like the kd 1 base, its got a nice tomato , garlic and onion ratio , which is suited to the madras sort of texture flavour. i.e quite garlicky with tomato noticable. I will try that taz base, and report back. Perhaps we could work as a group and develop a new base for this project, which is like a taz and kd1 combination. I like a base to be lots green pepper, onion garlic, some ginger, and a nice tomato puree element added late. the spcing is kept simple with tumeric for color, and paprika and cumin as must haves. I think getting a base to the right thin-ness is an under estimated factor. in fact i am sure my best curries are when the base is just the right thin-ness. anyone else find this?
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I think getting a base to the right thin-ness is an under estimated factor. in fact i am sure my best curries are when the base is just the right thin-ness. anyone else find this?
Absolutely. Consistency is (almost) everything : neither too thin nor too thick.
** Phil.
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I agree, consistancy is crucial to a good base, and the resultant dish.
So, what is the correct viscosity/consistancy that we should be looking at. Describing it as 'soup like' can be a bit miss-leading unless we know exactly which soup and brand, hot/cold.
Any thoughts?
Ray :)
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So, what is the correct viscosity/consistancy that we should be looking at. Describing it as 'soup like' can be a bit miss-leading unless we know exactly which soup and brand, hot/cold.
I don't even know in what units viscosity is measured, although I am sure Wikipaedia would tell me :) But how one would go about measuring it in a domestic kitchen is another matter completely. I suspect it is rather like cooking rice : with sufficient experience, you just know how much water it needs, and I think the same is true for the viscosity of the base and the viscosity of the finished curry. The only way in which I think we might manage to communicate to each other our preferred viscosity is to consciously think, as we make the base or the curry, which common liquid would feel much the same when stirred, and then use that as the analogy. At the moment, and sitting in front of the computer rather than stirring curry in the kitchen, my feeling is that the closest I can visualise is warm motor oil.
** Phil.
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i hope its tastier than warm motor oil ;D
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Hi
The viscosity of warm motor oil is too thick in my humble opinion. A suggestion from my colleague is Heinz cream of tomato soup as a likeness to correct consistency :P
Cheers
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The viscosity of warm motor oil is too thick in my humble opinion.
Ah, but how warm ?
A suggestion from my colleague is Heinz cream of tomato soup as a likeness to correct consistency
Thinks : is it worth investing in a tin of Heinz cream of tomato soup in order to validate this hypothesis ::)
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Im moving office next week back to one of my favourite restaurants - Zaffrons. If you live near Farnborough give them a go.
Anyway, Yogi, the owner, is a very friendly chap and is usually happy for me to chat to his chef. I imagine I'll be going there regularly so any questions that need asking I'll ask.
Lets crack the Madras, everything else should fall into place.
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Farnborough (Hants), Chris, or Farnborough (Kent) ?
** Phil.
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Consistency. When you empty a ladle full of base it runs like liquid and doesn't leave much residue in the ladle?
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Ah, my "warm engine oil" was an approximation to the viscosity of the finished sauce, not the base sauce; the spices add considerable body ...
** Phil.
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Neutral base works perfectly. I'm sold, do we now discuss spice mix for the project or is that part of the experimentation?
Hi All
Anyone had any thoughts on how to progress this?
Regards
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Someone needs to take charge of this or nothing will get done. I like the idea but I'm already looking after group tests. Does anyone want to volunteer?
Farnborough Hants by the way.
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Someone needs to take charge of this or nothing will get done. I like the idea but I'm already looking after group tests. Does anyone want to volunteer?
Farnborough Hants by the way.
Hi All
Well, I have a lot on my plate ATM (doesn't everyone?) however I am happy to take a very active role with this project. I don't want to be any kind of leader on this (I am just not qualified / experienced for the job) but am happy to collate info / polls and keep balls rolling etc.
Cheers
Regards all.
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Stout fellow : well volunteered, SP !
** Phil.
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I have not forgotten about this project. in fact quite the opposite !. I am working on a possible contender for a base. The spice mix should be left undefined, and we will work on that as a group over the year. That will be the hard part, and the interesting part.
I think initially we have to find a base which everyone will be happy to make more than once. i.e. a base which may not be everyones personal choice, but which is good enough for us all to make regularily. without a base we are all likely to work with ALOT, the project wont succeed.
I am happy to direct the project when it gets hopelessly stuck. but i feel it will work best in the long term if no one person assumes control. instead a group of genuinely committed members, manage it together. If all goes to plan it should gather its own momentum. The main problems will be finding a suitable base, and then collectively evaluating individual members "break throughs" to see if they are a step forward or a step back. I am unclear how this would work. would other members be committed enough to evaluate others work? I will begin a new thread in the group test section and start a skeleton base recipe we can all discuss.
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Hi DD & All
Did not want to dirty your new thread with chit-chat as was not sure that was its purpose?
Anyway, any thoughts on how we choose or create a suitable spice mix to start with?
cheers all
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good question, i expect we will all want to stick to our own tried and tested spice mixes to start with. but in time we might modify them a bit. then we can bounce ideas off each other. if we agree on a base 1st, this will simplify things. I have never been totally happy with copying the spice mix from my local. although it does work well. Once we agree on a base that works for the group, we can try different spice mixes from different members. might be a good learning experience.
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Should we move this to Derek's new thread (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5378.msg53082;topicseen#msg53082) ?
I think there is a third variable (well, really there are many) : the method of pre-cooking the chicken (assuming that we use chicken because of the reduced time needed c/w other meats). Having just used the Ashoka method, it is clear to me that my own Madras recipe is in part predicated on using the KD1 pre-cook approach, and that it does not seem to work as well when using the Ashoka.
** Phil.
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As a new fella just starting to making my own bir/ta currys, I would be interested to see which base you guy's come up with,Only done one so far, which i was quite pleased with, Using the Bradford base that Admin posted ie:- the Karachi Cafe in Bradford (Rick Stein),
So the best of luck people, Could be a prob with everyone having different taste buds though
A cracking site, well done to all who run her.
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yes lets move to that thread for all the discussions . of which there will be many :)