Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: mickdabass on January 09, 2011, 10:12 AM
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Anyone got any good tips for getting the best out of a charcoal fired home Tandoor ?http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Tandoor-Oven.html
Regards
Mick
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mickdabass,
clearly depends on deepness of pocket.
my gas bbq is not a bad compromise and i cook something like 70% of tikka on it. i also have chiminea which i use in the summer (30%) and it's easy to pick out the chiminea as producing the best result. would i buy a chimy just for tikka if i had gas bbq - No.
i think Haldi is the only person who can really answer your question. UB is also a candidate.
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It was my birthday the other day and my wife bought me a tandoor from spicesofindia. It arrived yesterday so rather excitedly I started to marinate some chicken tikka (blade2112). Didnt get any instructions with it but i know from their website that it will need using 4 or 5 times before i am able to cook any naans. I fired it up at 12.30 and gave it 3 hours to heat up. In that time i used about 4 kg charcoal. While i was waiting, i
decided to make some CA's Sheek kebabsI slid the chicken onto the skewers and then put a piece of lemon on last to stop the chicken slipping down the skewer.The Chicken was cooked in about 15 minutes. Not convinced the tandoor was up to correct temp but still it was the tastiest and most succulent I have tasted by far.The CA kebabs were a different story. Most of them parted company with the skewers.
I think the amount of binding ingredients needs increasing slightly but to be fair I used 1 Kg of mince instead of the 800g specified. I upped all the ingredients a bit to offset that but stuck to 1 egg as per CA's recipe. Going to have another go at them today and try upping the flour a bit and using 2 eggs - that is unless anyone has some better ideas?
Regards
Mick
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I think you are quite right in identifying the need for additional binder (egg) to compensate for the difference between 800g and 1000g of meat, but possibly the dimensions of the skewers is also key : are yours nice large wide ones, as used in kebab shops, or the rather easier-to-obtain thin narrow ones ?
** Phil.
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You lucky so-and-so! Can we have some pics? ;D
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I upped all the ingredients a bit to offset that but stuck to 1 egg as per CA's recipe. Going to have another go at them today and try upping the flour a bit and using 2 eggs - that is unless anyone has some better ideas?
Regards
Mick
Hi Mick,
You might rather try adding some breadcrumbs (e.g. as in Ray's kebab recipe). I haven't tried this yet, but I can believe that will help "stiffen" the mixture and make it adhere better (perhaps a better solution than adding more eggs and flour?)
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Hi Mick, lucky you your new tandoor looks sweeeeeet!!
as for getting kemma to stick i find flat skewers work better,
you will need your oven at max temp for a few hours for naan cooking! have fun and take us some pic's
you need to source some seasoned wood and 'restaurant' charcoal it burns hotter and longer then the homebase stuff.
(http://www.booker.co.uk/bbimages/139345_1_ID%20Shot_200_200.jpg)
Cheers UB.
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Would definitely like to see some pics of this new addition in action. Glad to hear the tikka turned out very well. Sure you'll bottom out the problem with the sheeks and have equally superb results. I am toying with the idea of treating myself to a nice bit of kit like this as i have some nice skewers that need a tandoor to be used in ;D. And it's my birthday soon. What better excuse does one need for a little treat? As for the commercial "restaurant" charcoal, where can one purchase this????
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As for the commercial "restaurant" charcoal, where can one purchase this????
Restaurant Charcoal 12kg (http://Restaurant Charcoal 12kg)
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Mick, what can I say, other than good for you. Please keep us informed of your progress with it and any photos will be genuinely appreciated by all of us. I can't way to hear of your results with Nans. UB was my hero when he built his and have often wondered if we can recreate good enough results on home ovens. Will invest in one come the summer if you can vouch for it. The chicken sounds great. Good luck with it. PP
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Hi Mick,
Quality piece of kit mate.
As CA suggest, maybe breadcrumbs will help you out. I typically use two slices of white bread, blitzed in a food processor, for 500g of minced lamb, and 1 large egg.
For 1kg, you may want to try 3-4 slices and 2 eggs. I never have any issues with them falling off anymore. I also shape the kebabs on the skewers with cold, wet hands. This helps a great deal, and kind of seals the outside of the kebab.
Hope that helps.
Rat :)
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I also shape the kebabs on the skewers with cold, wet hands.
From what I've heard about Mancunian weather, that's about par for the course ;D
** Phil.
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Phil,
I also shape the kebabs on the skewers with cold, wet hands.
From what I've heard about Mancunian weather, that's about par for the course ;D
** Phil.
Very true, and that's in the height of summer ;D
Ray :)
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To get your meat to stick to your skewers ,,,heat them up first ,no oil and once hot mould the meat around the skewer careful not to burn yourself ...the heat from skewer will stat to cook inside right away causing the meat to stick to skewer
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Hi Billy,
Interesting method. I've always completely cooled my skewers down before cooking the next batch of meat.
I can imagine this method being quite tricky, without burning yourself, especially if the skewers need to be hot enough to start cooking the meat from the inside out?
Ray :)
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Hey thank you all for the useful tips.
As is usually the case I think its all down to technique.
The way the kebabs are formed on the skewer is an art in itself! Didn't try the hot skewers tho - my hand have had enough punishment today with the naans!!!. CA's suggestion for the breadcrumbs helped. I added 2 tbsp and they did improve the consistency. I did notice that as the kebabs were cooking, they were breaking apart so I started forming them from one ball of keema rather than the way I saw "Chef Ramsay" being shown Gordon Ramsay tries to work a clay oven (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCF225x1vLU#ws) Ray i think you hit the nail on the head though with the wet cold hands - im sure there is a split second in that video where he has water dripping off his hand (2'53"ish)- will try that next time. Thanks guys for the link for the Restaurant charcoal too. I spent the best part of two hours trying to buy some today. Lets face it bags of Charcoal are as common as ice cream vans this time of year lol The only drawback with this tandoor is the lack of a lid. I can soon make one though so its no real problem. Just wished I'd studied the info a bit closer. Tried CA's Nans Today but didn't leave the dough in the fridge overnight but the results were still very very good - especially the keema naans :) Will be investing in a welders glove all the same
I will post some pics tomorrow
Regards
Mick
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Hi Mick,
The wet hand thing is something I've seen done at my local TA, albeit that they don't have a tandoor but a monster size grille thingy. The heat that it generates is unreal. If I'm stood at the counter in front of the grille, I have to move away as I can feel it burning my face.
Enjoyed the clip. Gordan look really out of his comfort zone lol ;D
Ray :)
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(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/e434fe18222e713806631e6501650dec.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#e434fe18222e713806631e6501650dec.jpg)
Blade2112s Tikka. I use 2 dsp Rajah Tandoori Massala instead of the pataks paste, no salt
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ba481e05a5b44928477d5e525deb9ba5.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ba481e05a5b44928477d5e525deb9ba5.jpg)
Naan No3. The first two suffered a painful death lol. Cooking time 45 sec - 1 minute... I left one in for a bit longer and it spontaneously combusted....now thats HOT!!
Pic taken at about 4pm
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/75e1593b1d9fd30090bd35ff244c2092.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#75e1593b1d9fd30090bd35ff244c2092.jpg)
First Keema nan It may look overcooked but it wasn't at all 8)
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Food looks delicious :P
Did you have any difficulty at all with the naan's sticking to the tandoor walls or did it just work fine?
Very jealous of your tandoor :(
Cheers
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Mick the pics look great, now joining the q of jealous readers. I know its early still but are you confident of BIR standard Nans? PP
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Hi Solarsplace
tbh it was hit and miss. Averaged 50% success rate.
The heat is fearsome
Im going to take the easy option and get some welding type gloves before my hands look like Freddy Krueger's
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Hi Panpot
I used CA's recipe for the naans but was too impatient to leave the dough in the fridge overnight.
The texture was spot-on but I still obviously need to get the hang of cooking with this beast
I will probably try Dipuraja's recipe next
I am so impressed with this Tandoor just a shame it hasnt got a lid
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I am so impressed with this Tandoor just a shame it hasn't got a lid
Maybe it would get too hot with one !
** Phil.
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Suppose that begs the question can a tandoor get too hot?
I would imagine the answer is Yes! I had to blacken the kebabs a bit to ensure they were properly cooked inside. Perhaps the oven was too hot? Perhaps I made then too big? The Keema naans were cooked perfectly though after 1 minute max. You could pull the thin wafer of meat out of the kebab and it remained intact with a rubbery type texture
I think the lid would help to get the temperature up initially though.
I actually carefully balanced a broken paving slab on the top taking great care not to scratch the tandoor while I went out for an hour searching for charcoal and that made a very noticeable difference to the temperature
I fired it up at about 11am and kept it going until about 5pm and used about 8Kg of charcoal. Im sure having a lid would give me a few more mpg tho lol
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Hi mick great pic's mate, the naan recipe i use in my tandoor is CBM's[his name is Mick to] and its the best Ive done by a long shot and now the only one i use -- i usually double the amount:
CBM's Naan Bread
Ingredients
300 grams of Self Raising Flour,
1 teaspoon of Baking Powder,
0.5 teaspoon of Salt,
Milk to add,
1 tablespoon of Sugar,
1 Egg,
3 tablespoons of Vegetable Oil,
1 teaspoon of Onion seeds (Kalonji).
Method:
Mix all ingredients in a bowl,
Add enough milk to get the dough to come together,
Knead for about 5 minutes,
Cover with a cloth and leave to stand for about 0.5 an hour
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Thanks UB
I'm sure you have just saved me hours of time
I will give it a go next weekend
When it comes to home Tandoor Cooking...you are the man.
I will let you know how I get on
Oh sorry Phil(Chaa006)
forgot to say: 7 skewers are about 6mm dia
The other one is about 8mm
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Suppose that begs the question can a tandoor get too hot?
When I use my tandoor for naans, I'm upping and downing the gas all the time, to regulate temperature
Too hot ,and the naans burn on the clay by the time the outside cooks.
Too cold and the naans won't stick
I've seen side chefs cooling tandoors down, with a damp tea towel
They swish it around the clay sides, for a minute, with the gas turned off
One chef told me they cook most of thier tikka, when their tandoor has been turned off.
It's very easy to burn
I use this method now
If you get it exact, the chicken is really moist
The first time I tried it, I wondered if it was cooked through
It was
But it just had an amazing soft texture, from the marinade
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Hi Haldi
That must be why the chicken tikka turned out so well. It was the very first thing i cooked and looking back i realise now that the tandoor was no where near as hot as it was when i cooked the naans.
Beginners luck i guess :)
Next time i use it i will try to remember to cook the chicken first.
Do you think it would be wise to buy a thermometer of some kind? It would be interesting to know how hot it gets anyway
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Hi
I've thought the best lid for a tandoor would be a Tava/Tawa, cheap, ready available, can be used to cook on!
Regards
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Commis,
Hi
I've thought the best lid for a tandoor would be a Tava/Tawa, cheap, ready available, can be used to cook on!
Regards
Great minds and all that :)
I was thinking exactly the same thing, when Mick first mentioned it.
Ray :)
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Hi Solarsplace
tbh it was hit and miss. Averaged 50% success rate.
The heat is fearsome
Im going to take the easy option and get some welding type gloves before my hands look like Freddy Krueger's
Hi Mick
Well, sounds like you are getting a lot of fun and success out of your new Tandoor :)
Gloves sound like an essential idea!
Please keep us posted with any tips, personally have so many boring things with a higher priority that need money spending on them like flooring and car repairs that any dreams of a Tandoor take a considerable step back, so anyh excuse to push it higher up the list ::)
Regards
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thats genius! what diameter are tavas?
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Hi Mick,
My Tava is 30.5cm in diameter.
That's 12 inches to you Phil ;D
Ray :)
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Simples!
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My Tava is 30.5cm in diameter. That's 12 inches to you Phil ;D
Boasting again, Ray ;D
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The diameter is 9 1/2" so Rays 12" would fit just right lol
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The diameter is 9 1/2" so Phils 12" would fit just right lol
Sounds like problem solved Mick? I only paid about 6 quid for mine from my local Asian Supermarket? Be great for keeping those naans warm too!
Ray :)
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Certainly does Ray.
Great idea.
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Do you think it would be wise to buy a thermometer of some kind? It would be interesting to know how hot it gets anyway
I notice that a modern tandoors have a thermometer on them, but mine doesn't
I would be interested to see how hot it gets, but I think you've just got to get to know, your tandoor.
I preheat for three quarters of an hour then cook my naans
I turn it off and cook the tikka
It took ages for me to get that right!!
I'm sure yours will be different, but it will be just as good
There are very few things I have bought that have given me so much entertainment as the tandoor.
Do some more photos, I would love to see it in action
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Damned if you haven't got me wanting one now!
Do you think Spices of India would give CR0 members a 10% discount off their orders if we give them a free banner spot on the home page?
To measure the temperature you need something like this (although probably a cheaper version). http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221048&C=Froogle&U=221048&T=Module (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221048&C=Froogle&U=221048&T=Module)
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The following photos are for educational purposes only. They are not intended to promote my "Culinary Prowess" but are just an honest account of a random person trying to cook Indian food and having fun ;D
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/69f62591ce3dbc49dbded9c29da4c3a5.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#69f62591ce3dbc49dbded9c29da4c3a5.jpg)
Thought Id made a tidy job of these. That lid is of a Rajah Minced Garlic Jar to give you some idea of scale CA's Bastardised Keema mince with 2 dsp rajah tandoori massala in stead of the other massala, 4 Tbsp Gram flour + 2 Tbsp breadcrumbs (sorry CA)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/772a87e7e576cfb9037a59480ec264c6.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#772a87e7e576cfb9037a59480ec264c6.jpg)
So far so good
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8837a2ef70590c830c8c609ecdcbf9f8.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#8837a2ef70590c830c8c609ecdcbf9f8.jpg)
About 3 out of 4 min cooking time and starting to slip down the skewer
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b1e67a6efeb0d26e79d2a930bfa5d6c7.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#b1e67a6efeb0d26e79d2a930bfa5d6c7.JPG)
The end results - dont they look just like a collection of cremated dog turds? cooking time varied from 3 - 4 mins. Tasted really good tho
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Hi Mick,
Don't really know what to say mate :(
They certainly look right before they go in. I have always wondered how seekh kebabs, made in a tandoor, don't burn at the end closest to the heat, well, the ones in TA's and BIR's lol.
Do you think that the tandoor maybe too hot? How long are they?, the kebabs that is. I have noticed that in many TA's, the keema is sat quite high up the skewer!
Maybe they're just too close to the heat or the heat is too high. Possibly a combination of both?
Sorry not to be of much help.
Ray :)
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Perhaps the lamb wasn't lean enough?
Or perhaps i hadn't kneeded the mixture for long enough?
Don't think its either of these. I am hoping your earlier suggestion with the cold wet hands will do the trick. Have to wait for the weekend to find out
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Hi Mick,
A few things spring to mind mate.
My local uses double minced sheep leg, it is very lean, hardly any visible fat. Too much fat content will cause the meat to sag once it is subjected to the heat. (that sounds familiar) ;D
Once they have made up the mix it is fridged. The chef makes up a batch of keema at lunchtime for that nights opening.
The tandoor does not have to be fiercely hot.
Also you could angle your skewers to put slightly less gravitational pressure on the meat, if you follow me.
I know this isn't sheek kebabs but you may get the idea with this chicken tikka and lamb tikka.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/e7d912d8612cfc3085e791857f621276.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#e7d912d8612cfc3085e791857f621276.JPG)
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"Double-minced", as AchMal suggests, may well help, and possibly even running it through a food processor to get an even finer texture (or buy yourself a pair of Chinese cleavers and mince it as the Chinese chefs mince pork for siu mai and the like).
** Phil.
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Hey Achmal and Phil
I think you could be onto something.
Hopefully i will give it another whirl at the weekend ;D
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Guys, this thread is why I love the site and will sneak a few minutes to as often as I can. Fantastic stuff and great inspiration keeping us dreaming on even if we think we have cracked it there is always another hill to tackle. Thanks PP
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Hi Mick,
Although I don't state it in the method for my own seekh kebabs, as Phil suggests, I also run my mince through the food processor!
Basically I do the following:
All the food processor, blitz the breadcrumbs,
Add the fresh coriander and blitz
Add the mince, spices, kashmiri masala, egg, garlic and ginger, and food colouring (if using), then blitz until all the ingredients are combined and the keema starts to form a ball in the food processor.
Then I refridgerate it for at least an hour before I shape them on my skewers.
Try that mate, works for me.
Also, I have my best results when I buy my minced lamb from Asda rather than the butchers? I have no idea why but I'm thinking the opposite of the guys! It could be because it's 'less' lean?
Ray :)
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Hi Ray,
The addition of the breadcrumbs would certainly remove the requirement for the meat to be so lean due to the drying nature of the bread crumbs..
I know that that may help us home cooks but I have never seen breadcrumbs added to a takeaway or restaurant sheek kebab.
Regards,
Mick
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I have my best results when I buy my minced lamb from Asda rather than the butchers? I have no idea why but I'm thinking the opposite of the guys! It could be because it's 'less' lean?
Yogi Gupta (http://www.indiacurry.com/faqhints/mincedmeatkebabhow.htm) recommends at least 10% fat, but that is on the basis of flavour rather than "sticktion" :
Step 1: Choose Meat
You can choose any type of meat you like from beef, lamb, mutton, goat, pork, or chicken. You can also choose Games such as Deer, Rabbit. For flavor, the meat should have a minimum of 10% fat. You can buy the muscle meat and use Food Processor in pulse mode to grind the meat, or you can buy meat that is already ground.
P.S. He also writes :
In India, the most common binders are Chickpea flour (Besan), or Corn Starch (Makki Atta).
** Phil.
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Hi Mick (Achmal)
I have never seen breadcrumbs added to a takeaway or restaurant sheek kebab.
I totally agree, I don't think that they would either mate, it just worked for me at the time. I had some (soggy) keema made up that I just knew, I'd be scraping out of the bottom of the grill pan within minutes. So I blitzed two slices of white bread, added the keema, and it worked a treat!
I do think however, that it wouldn't be so unusual for them to use other binding agents such as Besan as Phil suggests. I guess the breadcrumbs kind of replicate that effect?
Ray :)
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Hi Mick (Achmal)
I have never seen breadcrumbs added to a takeaway or restaurant sheek kebab.
I totally agree, I don't think that they would either mate, it just worked for me at the time. I had some (soggy) keema made up that I just knew, I'd be scraping out of the bottom of the grill pan within minutes. So I blitzed two slices of white bread, added the keema, and it worked a treat!
I do think however, that it wouldn't be so unusual for them to use other binding agents such as Besan as Phil suggests. I guess the breadcrumbs kind of replicate that effect?
Ray :)
Hi Ray,
As I said for home cooks then why not use breadcrumbs if it works. I'm certainly not knocking its use.
I can only say from having been in to 6 or 7 kitchens over the years, I have seen sheek kebabs prepared in 4 of those and not seen any dry binder such as any type of flour. I am, of course, not suggesting that it wouldn't be used elsewhere.
I have seen raw egg added though,
Regards,
Mick
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CA's recipe uses besan as did I. I would imagine it is always "at hand" in the bir kitchen so I would think they would use it as a binder. Btw i did use Asda minced lamb but will give it a good go with the food processor next time. Also Im going to get the tape measurse out next time i order seekh kebabs ;D
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Also Im going to get the tape measurse out next time i order seekh kebabs ;D
Mickdabass, I don't know where you live, but if you are in London you really should try the kebabs from Lahore 1 in Commercial Road. They are a speciality of the house, and if you are discreet about it (brown paper bag), you can also take your own beer :) If you prefer something non-alcoholic, a jug of mango lassi at about GBP 2-50 goes down a treat !
** Phil.
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Thats interesting Mick. Thinking about an egg being cracked into a hot frying pan and instantly starting to congeal makes me wonder if it might be worth upping the egg ratio a bit
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Im based in sunny birmingham
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Hi Mick (Achmal) & Mick
I have seen sheek kebabs prepared in 4 of those and not seen any dry binder such as any type of flour
I think your right Mick, the Kushi seekh kebab doesn't ask for a dry binder, nor does the KD one either! I think we've got to hand it to these guy's, they are very skilled at what they do.
I did witness my local TA knocking up a batch of seekh keema. I didn't realise what they were doing at first, and by the time I did, I'd missed quite a bit of it :( However, what I did find astonishing was, the amount of eggs they were using. One after the other, they were just bunging them in. I didn't see how much mince they had used, so it's hard to guess the meat to egg ratio but if I use one egg to 500g of mince, they used at least a dozen eggs, so 6kg of mince :o
I do need to mention that their seekh kebabs are actually a variation of a kubideh but they describe them as 'seekh' to avoid confusion. The texture of these kebabs is awesome. They are quite rubbery (in a good way) and always really juicy. I know this isn't helping much, just thought I'd share that with ya ;D
Ray :)
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Ah, too many years have passed (36, to be precise) for me to have any idea where to go for kebabs in Brum anymore. But the InterCity is pretty quick : you could always nip up to the Smoke for a kebab or two, and still be back before the pubs shut !
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Ah, too many years have passed (36, to be precise) for me to have any idea where to go for kebabs in Brum anymore. But the InterCity is pretty quick : you could always nip up to the Smoke for a kebab or two, and still be back before the pubs shut !
Lol
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Hi All,
This may help the budding tandoor chef..... :)
Regards,
Mick
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mickdabass,
loving the post please keep us informed on your journey.
it's already making me wrestless especially seeing the naan useage. might yet have to do a bit of brickying at home.
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Thanks Jerry will do.
I am hoping to do a bit more on saturday and will keep my reports as honest as i can.
Plan on repeating last week ends efforts and following all the advice i have been given i am hoping to crack the seekh kebabs which are a bit of a family favourite atm
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Just recieved my balti dishes and spices from spicesofindia (the rest of my birthday present) and must say what a helpful and obliging firm they are.
Imagine my surprise when I studied the invoice and noticed they had REIMBURSED ME IN FULL for the balti dishes :o
I had sent them an email last week asking them about Tandoor lids and they said that they would source one and send it to me. I also asked them if they could do anything on the price of ovens to cr0 members and their reply was that they couldn't give any more discount on the ovens as they are already discounted (?325 to ?285) but they are looking at possibly setting up a voucher code to recieve a FREE Tandoor Starter Set. 8)
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Hi Mick,
Great work with the voucher thingy.
Ray :)
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ok heres the weekend update. Saturday was a good learning day. The weather was mild and windy
I loaded the tandoor with 2 x 2Kg bags of self lighting charcoal, opened up the bottom vent, lit them and put my "lid" on top of the tandoor. Checked on it about an hour later and decided that I would cook some more chicken tikka.
The tandoor temperature didnt feel that hot (scientifically measured by putting
my hand inside) and so I put a skewer of chicken inside. I kept it cooking for about 18 minutes before removing it.
Unfortunately the top 2 pieces of chicken needed some additional cooking. The next skewer I prepared, I put the Smaller pieces of meat on the skewer first
and the larger pieces on last. I know some of you are probably saying that its common sense to do it that way but remember I am learning all about this from
scratch. The second (and third and fourth) skewer was more successful because of this. Cooking time came down to about 12 minutes. Obviously the Tandoor was still heating up but no where near the temp I had it last weekend
Back to the seekh kebabs.I had some CA's Keema mince left from last week and decided to use it purely for experimentation and not for consumption. I had about 1/4 left so I decided to try adding another egg as a binder. The finished mix appeared to be too sticky but thought I would give it a go anyway. The outcome was as expected...disaster but I had to go through the motions just to put my mind at rest.
Anyhow I binned the remaining Keema and decided to start again from scratch.
After the kebab experiment I had run out of time for the day and after checking the weather forecast I thought that sunday would probably be a non starter
Got up sunday morning and the weather didnt seem too bad so I thought I would scrape out the ashes and have another go. I noticed quite a lot of cinders in
the ashes and then I realised that for some reason not all the charcoal had burnt. Why? The only conclusion was that I had used too much charcoal from the start. By the end of the day the height of the ash in the bottom of the tandoor was above the level of the vent and therefore restricted the ventilation and restricted the heat!!
Hmmm...Theres a lot more to this than I thought
Learning from my mistakes I re-lit the tandoor with only 1 bag of charcoal and left it to warm up for about 1 hour. Decided to give it another bag of charcoal and another hour and returned later to give it a try.I then went in the kitchen to prepare the keema / seekh mix.This time I bunged all the ingredients into the wifes kenwood mixer and let it do its job. I actually reduced the gram flour by about 1/3 (2 tbsp instead of 3) Dont know why I did this...but I did lol .I left it mixing for about 2 minutes and the resulting mince looked a tad runny. I decided to give it a try anyway Loaded the skewer and pressed the meat onto it with my hand using some cold water as a lubricant (thanks Razor).
Success. ;D ;D ;D
I then went on to cook 15 more kebabs and only had two meet a firey demise!!
Next on the list were the naans. I took UB's advice and tried Taz's naan mix (Thanks UB). Unfortunately I added too much oil and the dough lost all its elasticity so I binned that and tried again but also reduced the oil by 1/3 to 2 tbsp. Again I used the wifes kenwood to mix that. The resulting dough was a little sticky but very elastic. I rolled the naans out as thin as I could, and before loading onto the cushion, I rolled them over a couple of cloves of coarsly chopped garlic & corriander. Cooking time was about 3 minutes, but that gave them a nice crisp outer and a bread-like core (see photos).
The finished naans were without doubt some of the nicest I have ever eaten
The weather slowly got worse during the day turning to drizzle but I dont think it affected the tandoor temperature too much.
I finished cooking at about 5pm
Haldis post was enlightening with regard temperature. The obvious disadvantage of a charcoal powered tandoor is that its harder and takes far longer to control the temperature
The advantage being that the food tastes better when cooked with charcoal
Things learnt so far
I feel a bit stupid writing all this stuff I know this is all common sense... but its good therapy for me lol
Cooking with a Tandoor is really identical in almost every way to conventinal bbq cooking.
Temperature is the most important
You can get a tandoor too hot
The type of fuel is crucial
Too hot and the food is burnt on the outside and uncooked inside
Too cold (in the case of naans) and the naans dont stick to the walls or they are too leathery in texture because of the prolonged cooking time
Typically the naans stick well to start with, but as soon as they start to blister, they detach themselves
Last week I got the temperature up much higher.I Wouldnt be suprised if it was twice as hot judging by the cooking times (45sec - 1 min for a naan last week: 3 minutes this week) The reason was that I used the last few charcoal "brickettes" purchased from Homebase which are far superior imo to normal "lumpwood" charcoal. Thanks UB for the info on the Restaurant Charcoal
A pair of leather gardening gloves/ gauntlets are essential - unless you are some kind of masochist
Use a food mixer to blend keema mince
I will post some photos a bit later
Regards
Mick
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(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1c2d16b9e47b75b2d363abe7499cf233.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#1c2d16b9e47b75b2d363abe7499cf233.JPG)
Garlic & Coriander naan
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/fc4c222fe62495e762c8c7522ed2551d.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#fc4c222fe62495e762c8c7522ed2551d.JPG)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ecf57a2c5395c6b7d27224331dec0e90.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ecf57a2c5395c6b7d27224331dec0e90.JPG)
Seekh-cess
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(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/513ea8e4f9dae3ac626ea1e50cd6bd8d.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#513ea8e4f9dae3ac626ea1e50cd6bd8d.jpg)
another close-up
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0555b598f9ae620c99ef0cc23ffacdac.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#0555b598f9ae620c99ef0cc23ffacdac.jpg)
Keema Naan and Seekh on the go
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c3a4e8daebf55253fb644834e09b252d.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c3a4e8daebf55253fb644834e09b252d.jpg)
Yum
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mickdabass,
any chance of an external view of the tandoor. from the inside pic not like what i imagined from the spice of india website.
must declare my interest is really in wood burning oven for pizza for summer use (for info have done 100% U turn on my existing domestic oven which is now fab). if i could somehow make the outdoor oven multi purpose for naan and tikka then clearly heaven.
very best wishes and just loving the in depth reports.
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I loaded the tandoor with 2 x 2Kg bags of self lighting charcoal, opened up the bottom vent, lit them and put my "lid" on top of the tandoor.
Mick - many thanks for your very interesting reports and images of delicious-looking food.
I thought lumpwood charcoal was best because there's no risk of bad-smelling chemicals being included. Either way, Tte cost of the charcoal puts me off, though. It must make the food far more expensive than ordering a take-away, even if it is fun.
I've been working on my homemade tandoor for a few months and am still not convinced it gets hot enough. Until I figure out how to get it hotter, I'm not going to try out any food.
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Mick,
Great work, a very productive weekend indeed. I hear what you are saying with regards to things being "common sense" but hey, even Gordan Ramsey struggled with the old Tandoor, so don't worry about that.
The Seekhs looked great, and the chicken tikka, well, I'm slavering like a pitbull just looking at them ;D
Naan bread, well, I'm not a big lover of it to be honest, much preferring paratha's. The only naan bread that I've ever really liked, was from my very old favourite TA. They were very thin, slightly crisp, and a little lemony, if my memory serves me good. They were also yellow in colour, which he said was down to the amount of oil that he used to make them? I've never seen yellow naans since but they were really good.
I also agree with George, I much prefer lump wood on my BBQ, just my preference I guess. I struggle to understand why people find BBQ or indeed, Tandoori cooking expensive though. The idea is to cook lots of food, fast. It will be expensive if your firing it up for only a couple of people, but for large amounts, I would have thought that it should be quite economical?
Exactly how many briquettes would you say that you are using per 'load'? I would have thought that no more than 10, golf ball size pieces would be sufficient, for about an hours worth of cooking, maybe be adding the odd briquette here and there? I have always thought that, it is the design of the tandoor that allows for the high temps, rather than the amount of fuel used? Of course, using a lid, and venting properly will help disperse the heat better around the pot and intensify the heat.
All of my above thoughts are of course, based on no experience whatsoever BTW ;D
Come summertime (whenever that may be) you will be our tandoor expert, of that I have no doubt.
Well done Mick, keep up the good work fella :)
Ray :)
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Thank you all for your kind words and advice.
Hi Jerry
I will post a pic of the tandoor later. Its quite compact standing not much more than knee height or 22"and weighs 40kg. Its on some very good casters but is still fairly ma nagable for me to lift on my own.
George
I know where you are coming from with the briquettes. You could perhaps use them early on to get the temp up and then switch to lumpwood later to cook on.
The potential output of food from this thing is IMO quite impressive: 7 skewers of chicken say 2 breasts per skewer say 15 minutes cooking time? I think that's quite good. You could possibly get 5 or 6 naans on the go at any one time say 3 minutes each..... You do the math!!!
I will keep an eye on the fuel consumption but I think I used about ?5 worth of charcoal over about 5 hours
Ray
I would think I would use about 20 briquettes at a time although this is a very rough guess. The thing is that every time you load it with fuel you cant really cook on it so rather than add them little and often I have been tending to add quite a few not too often. Perhaps my methodology will change with experience.
Only time will tell
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George - I know where you are coming from with the briquettes. You could perhaps use them early on to get the temp up and then switch to lumpwood later to cook on.
Actually, thinking about it, they wouldn't sell briquettes if they were no good for cooking, so perhaps they are OK.
I just tried cooking some naan bread on my "MkII" homemade tandoor oven. I was going to open a new thread but there's so little to say, I may as well write it up here. It was a failure, taking far too long to cook.
Afterwards I cooked some of the same dough under the grille and it was much better. Neither was there any hint of a 'smokey' flavour to the first batch, so where's the advantage of using charcoal? It's so messy, even if it is a bit 'romantic'. I doubt if I've ever had naans or anything else cooked over charcoal in a BIR. I bet they all use gas, and always have. I will have one stab at a MkIII oven designed purely to cook tikka. It doesn't need to be very large because a batch of tikka is so small.
My failed MkII oven was made from a medium-sized propane cylinder with at least 12" of insulation all around in an attempt to build up the heat. Inside the cylinder were numerous storage heater bricks, placed to hold and radiate heat from the first hour of firing, being wood and logs, The temperature must have been sky-high at thar point, given all the flames. Then I added charcoal. I would have predicted this set-up should have become hotter than a tandoor but it seems not, if the naan bread is anything to go by. I never did measure the temperature but it's a bit academic if I can't even cook a naan bread. The bread was loaded vertically on to a granite slab, also pre-warmed in all the flames, and designed to resemble a section of the side of a tandoor.
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Sounds good george. I am suprised that you didnt have more success. Have you explored the avalability of a clay liner? Are proper tandoor liners available? I seem to remember UB used a large teracotta flour pot? I would have thought that if you got the ventillation sorted youd be laughing
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Sounds good george. I am suprised that you didnt have more success. Have you explored the avalability of a clay liner? Are proper tandoor liners available? I seem to remember UB used a large teracotta flour pot? I would have thought that if you got the ventillation sorted youd be laughing
Yes, I was surprised, too. I hoped that my oven temperature would go higher than a tandoor. Clay liners may hold some heat but I thought storage heater bricks would be more efficient or else they would use clay tablets inside electric storage heaters. I also covered the flue/chimney to keep in even more heat, but none of these steps proved sufficient. The charcoal was glowing brightly and everything looked good but the naan bread was a failure. Your oven temperature will hopefully increase when you fit a lid.
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Hi Jerry
Photo as promised
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1e9f290de3f46e89f1b6b0bcc3844eaf.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#1e9f290de3f46e89f1b6b0bcc3844eaf.JPG)
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Hi Mick,
You do need a lid/cover, i just made mine out of some stainless steel sheet which i robed of a dishwasher door!
the one in the pic was a proto type but you get the idea
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/04809634caff9ac135216369d6c81fda.jpg)
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mickdabass & UB,
many thanks for pic and the extra spec details (a whiles since sand bags and such like were 40g). food for thought.
George,
any chance of some pics of your set up. i like the idea of the vertical sheet for naan cooking.
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George, any chance of some pics of your set up. i like the idea of the vertical sheet for naan cooking.
Certainly, when I find the devices I use to upload images from my camera to the computer. It's not pretty though, like the two stylish ovens shown above. It was my prototype for a 'proof of concept' which turned out to be a 'proof of failure.' I'm still at a loss to understand why, given the large burning chamber and loads of insulation, and other measures.
Here are some photos taken last summer:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/tx55j67a/TandoorMkii1.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/tx55j67a/TandoorMkii2.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/tx55j67a/TandoorMkii3.jpg)
The door was made like the door or a bank vault, being several inches thick and packed with vermiculite. The rest of the cylinder was well wrapped with loft insulation. Any ideas as to why it still didn't seem to get hot enough?
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UB that looks like a smart bit of kit.I remember following your "Constructing a Home Tandoor" thread a while back now with great interest and have contemplated copying your design How did you manage to protect it from the frost?. Spicesofindia have promised me a free lid with my next order! Cant say fairer than that. Theyll be giving me a free t shirt next lol. Anyhow id better shut up about them or youll all think I work for them or something
George
I dont know why your prototype doesnt get up to temp but i bet someone on this forum could answer your question. Im sorry i cant help
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George,
many thanks for pics - took me by surprise - some real engineering going on.
i can't believe it's not getting up to temp.
are the blocks inside what the naan is being cooked on once the flames have subsided.
i think you might need to invest in an infrad red thermometer to understand better what is happening.
only thought from my chiminea experience is that it's quite a balancing act between too hot and too cold (for tikka). you may need a longer warm up or more mass to help keep the heat high but without too much flame.
i know from my recent pizza work that quarry tiles take a long time ~1hr to heat but then stay hot for hrs (something like 3 hrs before i can take them out of my electric kitchen oven).
all very interesting stuff.
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The potential output of food from this thing is IMO quite impressive: 7 skewers of chicken say 2 breasts per skewer say 15 minutes cooking time? I think that's quite good. You could possibly get 5 or 6 naans on the go at any one time say 3 minutes each..... You do the math!!!
I will keep an eye on the fuel consumption but I think I used about ?5 worth of charcoal over about 5 hours
I'm really puzzled as to how the tandoor style ovens manage to get such good results, when I can't match it with my wood burning stove, whether using wood or charcoal. My stove will get so hot that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to put their arm in for the several seconds you usually see when people place a naan into a tandoor. Secondly, the tandoors are often seen used without the lid, so you'd think all the heat just shoots straight out. Perhaps the naans cook in the exhaust stream, so to speak.
Here's one of many examples on youtube:
Naan Bread in the Tandoori Oven (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAexc5txf78#ws)
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Its a long time ago now when I was at college & the the beer has damaged what few brain cells I had... but I think the clay pot used in a traditional tandoor retains the heat whereas the metal in your prototype conducts heat, so the initial temperature would be the same and as the primary heat source (coals)subsides the metal would lose the heat to your lagging but the pottery would maintain a steady temperature. For example you have been using a granite tile for naan trials? take it out of your oven along with a metal grill & see how long the granite maintains the heat compared to the metal grill.
I have been wrong before tho ;D
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Willyeckerslike - that makes sense to me too. Ive been bringing the tandoor in at nights - worried that the frost might crack it and it is still quite warm the next morning
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I think the clay pot used in a traditional tandoor retains the heat
That's right, of course. I tried to take all those factors into account and it still doesn't work.
>the metal in your prototype conducts heat
Yes, but the heat was stopped from going anywhere by thick insulation, just like in a tandoor. A clay pot would leak heat if there was no insulation in a tandoor.
>For example you have been using a granite tile for naan trials?
Yes, that's right - as a substitute for 1sq ft or more of the clay walls of a tandoor.
>take it out of your oven along with a metal grill & see how long the
>granite maintains the heat compared to the metal grill.
Of course, but the metal wasn't being used for cooking, i.e. in contact with the bread. I'm sure a granite slab would hold heat better than a clay wall.
I'm getting better results with my domestic oven now so I won't be tempted to buy a tandoor. Any of these charcoal-fired devices strike me as too much trouble, simply for baking naan bread. I may, however, try making a smaller stove for cooking tikka, where there could be advantages from (a) the very hot skewer and (b) juices falling onto charcoal, with the smoke then feeding back into the chicken.
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George,
i'd go along with you that your oven is too hot. i think with crucible molten metal might just be possible.
why i think this is from a disaster on the pizza front in my domestic oven. it's really working a treat now - i have quarry tiles on the 1st shelf and sheltering the thermocouple. anyway cut it short i moved the quarry tiles to the base of the oven - burnt pizza - i think the temp increased from ~550F to something like 700F.
what i'm getting at is this science is no easy thing and a few mods may well be all that is needed on your machine.
the 1 hr heat up of the tiles seems very critical - hence the prior comment on heat mass.
i'm on the lookout for a cheapo infrared temp as my analogue dial gauge is helpfull but does not tell the full story of surface temperature.
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i'd go along with you that your oven is too hot. i think with crucible molten metal might just be possible.
Jerry - many thanks for your suggestions and feedback from your own experience. I tried placing a tiny copper pipe and some copper wire in the chimney of my stove where I assume the heat was at its most intense. The copper did not melt - not even slightly - which really surprised me. I then placed a thin strip of aluminium only 0.8mm thick in the flame stream. Eventually, an inch at the end fell off the end of the aluminium (melted away) which suggests a flame temperature of perhaps 700C but nowhere the 1000C+ required to melt copper. Some websites seem to suggest that wood flames may not be particularly hot. I placed a K probe leading to a multimeter in the chimney as well, and measured up to 475C in exhaust gas, but I didn't want to risk the K probe in direct flames. There must be something special about the design of a tandoor but, as I'm getting better and better results from my gas oven indoors, I'm now less bothered about using charcoal.
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There must be something special about the design of a tandoor
George,
many thanks for temp info - interesting. will let you know if i get anywhere with idea of outside combi oven.
interesting too on the "hotness" of wood -something i'd not thought of and need to dig a bit deeper. albeit i already know wood produces enough heat down to cooking tikka on chiminea. it must be down to the free air needed to burn efficiently, the need for this heat mass and the type of heat mass material.
ps i tried aluminium tray to cook pizza (to compare with black steel) and found it very poor. base was soft like bread yet topping over cooked. all interesting stuff.
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The reason I think a proper tandoor get so hot is that it works the same way as a jet engine- the base where the charcoal is is wider than the neck- the heated air moves up the tandoor and accelerates, this causes a draw on the coals an the bottom and a superheating effect- hence it just gets hotter and hotter (400-500c).
Combine with this the radiant effect of the clay and bricks.
If you google how a jet engine works and imagine it stood on its end- the similarities are striking.
I may write to Richard branson and suggest he straps Tandoors to the wings of his planes.
Phil
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given PhilUK thoughts does anyone know how hot a tandoor gets - what i'm really searching for is how do you test that it's at cooking temp.
i've been reading up a few website on wfo (wood fired ovens) for pizza and one suggests chucking floor onto the stone and looking for how the colour changes.
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does anyone know how hot a tandoor gets ?
Wikipaedia him say :
Temperatures in a tandoor can approach 480
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easy way of testing if tandoor is hot enough- throw a pice of zinc in-it has a melting point of around 420c, which is about right temp for a tandoor.
phil
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Phil Chaa006 - many thanks for taking time to search out temp. surprisingly high. i think 900F also equates to the highest temp needed for pizza (500-550F does a pretty good job though).
PhilUK, sounds as if i might end up having to get one of those infra red temp things. just the price putting me off.
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Well - I christened my home made tandoor yesterday - charcoal fired. I would give myself 5 out of 10 for the results. Took a longer time than I expected to get it hot (1 hour & 2 lots of charcoal) - as i thought it would be - and to cook with, and a lot longer to cook than expected too (40 minutes). My thoughts :-
1. Not hot enough - hence the length of time - just ordered a probe to check for next time
2. Over loaded the amount I tried in one go - 6 chops, & 2x half chickens split as half chicken on each skewer as 2 parts per half chicken. Compared to BIR servings, the chicken pieces were a lot larger than you would get as a tandoori half chicken meal. Your comments on overloading / chicken piece size welcome guys
3. Tried a naan at the end - blistered up ok after a minute - but stuck like the proverbial to the clay pot side. Clearly not hot enough at this point for naan - charcoal in base almost done.
Now having tried it and reading this thread :-
a). I will now measure the temp and use more charcoal and have another set of coals on the go as a top up. Having seen the comment about BIRs using a combination of gas & charcoal within the same tandoor, I may go down this route if I can't get decent results using charcoal alone.
b). Note the need to cure the clay walls with salt / water to prevent naan sticking oil in the dough mix may also help - none in my recipe.
I also suffered from wet marinade areas still present because of the way the chicken pieces & chops slid down the skewer sticking together preventing the charring of the overall meat surface. My thoughts here are to put some kind of metal spacer or veg? between each meat piece to ensure they are kept separate to stop the sliding together - maybe use smaller pieces of meat as opposed to quarter chicken pieces that are on the larger side compared to BIR chicken size servings.
Fire away guys at my mistakes so I can bring 'er indoors back onside to the 'delights' of tandoor cooking.