Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Peripatetic Phil on December 13, 2010, 10:46 AM
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Because I like a lot of sauce/gravy with my curries, I normally end up with some left over when all the chicken has been eaten, so this week I have been experimenting by making each new batch of curry using the leftover sauce in conjunction with KD1/Stage-2 sauce (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5161.msg50355#msg50355) rather than making fresh KD1/Stage-3 sauce (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5161.msg50355#msg50355) for each meal. And I have to say, the results have been extremely satisfactory. So the question that begins to emerge in my mind is, "Just how little tomato do we really need in a curry in order to get the authentic BIR flavour and texture ?". And the answer, based on this week's experiments, seems to be remarkably little. What do others think ?
** Phil.
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Phil (Chaa006),
the mytake base that i make regular does not have any tomato in it. the saffron and rajver which i also make regular do. it's quite surprising how different the bases taste yet i don't have 3 sets of yellow sticky recipe sheets.
i'm still not sure on how much at frying though. i'm leaning towards it being dish specific. for example the 70s madras which originates much from your bombay has a lot of tom puree in. on other dishes i even leave it out (jalfrezi).
recently in most dishes i've reduce tom puree to 1 htsp (c/w 1 or even 2 htbsp in the past).
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And thinking back to a 1970's Bhuna that I used to eat regularly for lunch in the Finchley Road (London, NW3), I am reasonably confident that that had no tomato in it at all. It was a very dry, very pleasant dish, that I normally ordered with a mushroom bhaji and a couple of chapatti.
** Phil.
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"Just how little tomato do we really need in a curry in order to get the authentic BIR flavour and texture ?"
Very little Phil if by 'BIR' you mean 'old style' BIR.
A lot of traditional Pakistani curries have absolutely no tomato in them at all and I feel that this is the way to go, at least for me, to get closer to the pre 1990ish style curries.
I use very little tomato (comparatively) in the bases I make and, in dishes like Jalfrezi and Vindaloo, don't add any more when making the actual curry.
I think this is why I don't get on with about 95% of the bases and curry recipes on the forum. But at least it doesn't irk me the way it used to because I now realise that they are more akin to the modern BIR formula stuff that I'm really not a fan of.
I honestly see the use of too much tomato, in any guise, as the ruination of modern BIR fare. It's just not what I'm after.
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Phil, Secret Santa,
i too see Bhuna & Vindaloo having no tom puree for 70s dish.
ps as an aside given the above thoughts i'll try the next 70s base with no tomato just out of interest.
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I agree with SS, the modern style BIR seems to rely on tomato more then the old style used to.
The thing with tomato in a curry is, a little is fine but it can easily ruin a good curry if over done, which begs the question, is it needed at all?
I do actually use a full tin in my base, which is ample in my opinion, and I very rarely use much more, except for the odd squirt of tom ketchup, again, this can go wrong at times!
Ray :)
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I like tomato in my curries :(
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I like tomato in my curries :(
Aye. But then ye wad prabably like salt in your porridge, and batter aroond your Mars bar ;D
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I like tomato in my curries :(
i am sure a lot of us (me included) like tomato "puree" in our curries and won't be changing as this is part of what we crave.
i'm just beginning to think that i've been using too much in comparison with BIR. for a long time i used something like 1 htbsp and have recently reduced this to 1 htsp. i haven't used the smaller amount enough yet to really decide on which is better.
as always it will be interesting to get some more views - specifically on actual amounts they use. i think generally most recipes seem to specify 1 tbsp.
my other interest in this topic is along the lines of salt (although opposite) - is it better more tomato "puree" at frying stage than in the base.
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Hi Jerry
Been really pleased with my last experiment, which was the standard 40g of the CA base, but using only 2 level tsp of pur?e in the dish. Was clearly using too much before, this is coming so much closer to what is being served in my favourite BIR.
cheers
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I like tomato in my curries :(
Aye. But then ye wad prabably like salt in your porridge, and batter aroond your Mars bar ;D
lol@phil....and whisky in my cornflakes, not to mention intravenous consumption of Irn Bru :D
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Phil, I know the Indian Garden (that started in the 70's) does not use any tomato in the base. I don't have the specific recipe and amounts as yet but it differs from most of the base recipes I have seen here. As much as I could glean from the IG Chef during the bhaji demo it's made up of half a potato, green pepper, half a lemon (pith & rind), garlic, ginger and of course onion.
I asked specifically why he doesn't use tomato and he replied that he prefers to add this at the final dish stage to give him more control over his dishes, both for flavour and colour.
Interestingly enough, the tomato paste he uses (White Tower) is processed thus: Fry garlic in oil, add tomato paste, water and mix.
The dishes generally are not as wet as you find with most modern BIR's. I'm too young to remember the 70's BIR but the IG does some cracking nosh.
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like solarspace, i only use 2 level teaspoons of tomato puree in my currys. 1 tablespoon is too much in my opinion.
Alan ;D
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Axe,
i still have the garlic in tom puree to try and must push it up the list. is the garlic chopped, sliced or blended. i think each would probably produce a different result. i intend to make it in advance and keep for at least 24hrs before using.
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Jerry I really wish I could tell you more with confidence but I can not. The garlic I noticed appeared to be whole, but it was just one small clove that had been brushed over with the spoon, if you get my meaning. So how much and how it was treated, is yet to be truly discovered. From it's white appearance though, I would guess it was cooked slowly on a low heat.
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Axe,
no probs. the big question in my mind had been if it was fresh or dried. given your comment i will work on fresh initially. having tried garlic in puree before (and spice mix) i am convinced a marinade period in the puree is the step i've been missing.
i'm hoping to make base this w/e to try out parker21's CTM ideas. will give the lemon and the puree a go at the same time.
best wishes
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Jerry,
If you do try the Lemon, please note that they use only half a lemon for a large pot of base. Be careful to scale this down correctly to suit the amount of base you are making.
From memory the pot is roughly the same size as can be seen here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5358.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5358.0)
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Axe,
many thanks for extra info.
i will use 0.5 lemon cut up. i'm really looking to taste the effect so don't mind using too much. i can then fine tune down as needed.
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Axe,
tried the lemon in base yesterday. i used 0.5 lemon in 3.3L. i'm sold on the result and have frozen 2 off quarters for future use. will reduce amount to 0.25 per ~3 to 4L.
last night the taste was too strong and clearly out of balance. this morning it's much closer to balance and adds just that little extra something which i personally like a lot.
many thanks for pushing on this one - well pleased.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f4fafb2cf55708852f94952069b050ff.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f4fafb2cf55708852f94952069b050ff.jpg)
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That's a great result Jerry, i'm glad it has helped. I know from my experiences that you get a sweetness from it, not sugary but a fresh underlying sweetness. Almost hard to explain.
Looking forward to hearing how you progress with this. :)
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Axe,
i used the base tonight and tasted it before - the balance was very good. i know what you mean on hard to explain. it's not sweetness for me it's more like a freshness that seems to sit well and compliment the rest of the ingredients. a sort of 1 + 1 = 3
i made 2 off CTM that were very good. they are not a challenge though to the lemon and will aim to fit a madras in during the week.
i'm well pleased. not made the modified tom puree yet as i'm having a ctm week and i don't need it for this type of dish.
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Axe,
had go at the garlic puree. i ended up added dry garlic slithers (3/4 off) to water and microwave medium heated until soft, added 1 htsp of tom puree, left 24hrs and used the lot in plain curry sauce. nb 1 off piece eaten straight from the pack gives a real powerful punch of garlic.
i've had a few previous goes (roasted garlic). i also regularly use pre cooked garlic slithers in some dishes and know that they work very well (hot fried in touch of oil).
what got me back onto the topic was making tom sauce for pizza. i now make this at least 24hrs (norm 3days) in advance and had noted how the garlic seems to come through more strongly than simply mixing in and using straightaway.
i'm going to have to leave the verdict open on this as i could not really say the curry was better. for info i could not taste the garlic but did not expect to.
i have no plans to try out further being content to use the pre fried slithers as and when needed.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b4de8a895e35d2ff380be319744cb06b.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#b4de8a895e35d2ff380be319744cb06b.jpg)
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That all sounds quite logical to me Jerry. When I do finally find out exactly what they do, measurements, method etc, i'll let you know. :)