Curry Recipes Online
Supplementary Recipes (Curry Powders, Curry Paste, Restaurant Spice Mixes) => Supplementary Recipes Chat => Topic started by: Razor on December 04, 2010, 06:24 PM
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I have made the Ashoka GG paste on quite a few occasions now, and whilst it is very good indeed, I really don't like making it.
Now I know that the Ashoka GG paste is a genuine restaurant ingredient, as Panpot has discovered and kindly published for us all to enjoy but I do wonder actually how many restaurants really do make their own?
Can you imagine the effort it would take to prepare enough paste for a nights service?
Now I think Rajah do a 2.5kg pot of gg paste, which I think cost's around a fiver. Assuming that 5g goes into each dish, that equates to roughly 1p per serving.
Would I be alone in thinking that it's seems reasonable to suggest that very few actually make their own and go for the catering size tubs instead?
I know Dipuraja claims to make his own and yet, his establishment is exactly the type of place that I would put money on, using prebought!
Any thoughts?
Ray :)
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Any thoughts ?
Yes : now that I know that Rajah make it, I shall be off to my local Indian grocer's as soon as the snow has cleared ! Test reports will, of course, follow.
** Phil.
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Hi Phil,
I've used it lots and lots, and think that it works just fine. The only reason that I ever make the Ashoka GG paste is out of guilt really ::)
It's another one of those cheats that really work well IMO.
Now, that cheat wouldn't have been available back in the "good ole days", so there is one ingredient that we can safely assume, is an addition of the 90's - 00's
Ray :)
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Hi
This is a tricky one!
Not made the specific paste you are talking about Ray, but this is indeed a subject that I have pondered for quite some time as to what would happen in the real BIR kitchens.
In most I think, as you would suspect (like Dip's) they would use any tool to give them economy and speed.
However, having personally tried several brands of the G and G&G pastes - nothing beats fresh. Its close! but no cigar. I use it when I'm being lazy, but don't under estimate one of the foundation pieces of the whole dishes importance :) - the G&G is a cornerstone.
Fresh every time, unless you are trying to cook down to the local TA's standards or you are pissed ;)
Regards
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Hi SP,
Fresh every time
And I agree, or at least I agree that 'fresh is best' but how confident are you, in that your favourite restaurant uses fresh?
The only way that I would be confident is, if they didn't peel anything, and just blended it with oil and water.
It's the peeling of the garlic that gets me everytime, I hate it. Even soaking it in boiling water for a minute or two, although it helps tremendously, it's still a pain.
Guess I'm just a lazy sod ;D
Ray :)
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I make it all the time, just my own view but I'm not keen on using pre-bought pastes, including spice pastes, it's just a step too close to using Lloyd Grossman sauces for my liking. I know people way say yeah but restaurants use them and that's fine but it's just not for me.
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It's the peeling of the garlic that gets me everytime, I hate it. Even soaking it in boiling water for a minute or two, although it helps tremendously, it's still a pain.
Do you whack it with the side of a chef's knife or cleaver before trying to peel ? Place the knife/cleaver, edge away and flat side down, on the garlic clove, then thump with clenched fist.
** Phil.
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Hi Stephen,
I know people way say yeah but restaurants use them and that's fine but it's just not for me.
I totally agree mate, fresh has to be best but, is it so much superior to the jarred stuff?
So, with you making your own then, you are perfectly positioned to answer, do the restaurants make their own, or used jarred? Think of how much they would need to prepare for a night/weeks service?
Do you think that they would go to all the trouble?
All the gg pastes that I have seen in the videos are really bright white but whenever I have blended it with just water, within no time at all, it turns green, and I mean proper green.
I do believe that blending with oil prevents this but I'm also conscious of ending up with 'garlic and ginger mayo' lol
Ray :)
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Hi Phil,
Yes I do crush each clove in it's skin before peeling, it's still a sticky, messy affair.
Ray :)
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It's the peeling of the garlic that gets me everytime, I hate it. Even soaking it in boiling water for a minute or two, although it helps tremendously, it's still a pain.
But why do you do that?
Remove clove from bulb, cut root end off, bash with the side of a knife, skin comes off easily.
Or, if you're in a rush, just cut the whole of the root end off the garlic bulb, lightly bash the bulb with the heel of the hand, and as above for each individual clove.
No? ???
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Remove clove from bulb, cut root end off, bash with the side of a knife, skin comes off easily.
Or, if you're in a rush, just cut the whole of the root end off the garlic bulb, lightly bash the bulb with the heel of the hand, and as above for each individual clove.
Yep, I'd go along with SS here : it is the lightly bash that is the key -- don't try to flatten the clove, just bash it enough to free the skin.
** Phil.
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I make it all the time, just my own view but I'm not keen on using pre-bought pastes, including spice pastes, it's just a step too close to using Lloyd Grossman sauces for my liking. I know people way say yeah but restaurants use them and that's fine but it's just not for me.
Steven you're a man after my own heart. Pastes are bad..mmmkay!
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Hi SS,
I agree, a light bash, does help with the peeling. I can't remember who it was that suggested giving them a bit of a soak in boiling water but I tried it, and it's even better than the 'lightly bash' method. The skin almost slips off in one, once the root end has been cut away.
Still, would the restaurants do it though? I just wonder that's all. I'm thinking, how long does it take to knock up a nights service worth, half an hour - an hour. Even if the guy doing it, is on minimum wage, it still works out cheaper to buy jarred than to make fresh!
Remember, I'm not asking which is best, only which is more likely to be used.
Ray :)
P.S, I also agree with Stephen SS, pastes are bad, way too tart and shouldn't have a place in BIR or TA cooking, but unfortunately, this way of commercial cooking seems to be the way.
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All the gg pastes that I have seen in the videos are really bright white but whenever I have blended it with just water, within no time at all, it turns green, and I mean proper green.
Ray, if you blend with tap water you are adding all sorts of 'additives' to the mix, most of them copper based.
If you want to keep the colour then use only oil. And it is a 'mayo' of sorts but who cares, you're going to add it to a pan containing more oil.
Oh, and that greeny/blue aged GG mix is perfectly safe to eat.
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SS,
Oh, and that greeny/blue aged GG mix is perfectly safe to eat.
I believe so, and I did use it but I couldn't enjoy my curry, just the thought of it made me wrench :(
So SS, what do you think that they do, buy in or blend their own? Obviously, it's impossible to tar them all with the same brush, and it wouldn't be fair to do so, just can't help thinking that they are getting lazier and lazier, and is probably a good explanation as to why the food has gradually deteriorated over the years!
Ray :)
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Hi SS,
I agree, a light bash, does help with the peeling. I can't remember who it was that suggested giving them a bit of a soak in boiling water but I tried it, and it's even better than the 'lightly bash' method. The skin almost slips off in one, once the root end has been cut away.
Still, would the restaurants do it though? I just wonder that's all. I'm thinking, how long does it take to knock up a nights service worth, half an hour - an hour. Even if the guy doing it, is on minimum wage, it still works out cheaper to buy jarred than to make fresh!
Remember, I'm not asking which is best, only which is more likely to be used.
Ray :)
P.S, I also agree with Stephen SS, pastes are bad, way too tart and shouldn't have a place in BIR or TA cooking, but unfortunately, this way of commercial cooking seems to be the way.
Ray I'm convinced that this plays a part in my dislike of modern BIR fare.
I happen to dislike lemon in savoury curries because it is just not what I am used to from the past.
But, of course, lemon and the preservatives that are used in these commercial GG pastes have the same effect on the final dish, i.e. they make it taste sour.
I doubt very much that any run-of-the-mill BIR now peels and preps their own garlic and ginger. And I think that agrees with your opinion.
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Hi All,
I can tell you that the three kitchens that I have been allowed to film in and the four others have all made the Garlic/Ginger paste fresh. Either with water or oil.
In my local I saw what I would describe as a small bucket of peeled garlic. I said that would have taken me all day. I was told that it took the chef, the tandoor chef and the cook/runaround lad about 20 minutes. It's one of those jobs that they all muck in for.
BTW they separate the cloves and leave them to soak in water for a few hours before peeling.
They do much of their prep between 12 and 2 pm for that evenings opening.
Mick
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Mick that's the sort of eye-witness experience we need here.
Why don't you post more often?
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Hi Mick,
That's very reassuring indeed. And thank god for actual first hand experiences such as this.
Ray :)
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Mick that's the sort of eye-witness experience we need here.
Why don't you post more often?
SS,
I suppose because most of my time is spent on another site and although I don't have any issues with cr0 at all, I feel that on occasion people post on here and they can be faced with some less than pleasant responses,
I'm not saying everyone has to go round kissing everybody else's back side but some times it doesn't help and I feel without doubt it will stop people participating,
I am happy to post on here more often and see how things go.
Cheers,
Mick
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Hi Mick,
That's very reassuring indeed. And thank god for actual first hand experiences such as this.
Ray :)
Thanks Ray,
I have been fortunate over the years to have been allowed into seven kitchens but it's not without hard work and having bought shed loads of curry, constantly asking questions, befriending the staff etc
Despite all that I still can't get the exact taste of years ago, damn close but not spot on.
Mick
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Hi Mick,
It certainly sounds like you've earned your stripes mate, and good luck to ya too.
Out of interest, how long back does your kitchen experiences go, and have you noticed any thing change over the years, even if it's just equipment?
Ray :)
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I posted this a while ago about Asda, they do a frozen crushed garlic & a frozen crushed ginger. The ingredients for the garlic is :- garlic. The ingredients for ginger is :- ginger. I think they are great as it lets me prepare enough g&g paste for the amount of dishes I require with no waste. I am sure they were less than a pound each, can't look for the post as I am at work & busy :P
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I posted this a while ago about Asda, they do a frozen crushed garlic & a frozen crushed ginger
Asda's a fair way from here, Willy, but it may be worth a trip : obviously it's going to be in a freezer, but near to what sort of foods ?
** Phil.
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Hi Will,
The Asian supermarkets do them too, and I think that they're even cheaper. I suppose it's a posibility that some TA's may use these products?
Ray :)
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It was in the freezer bit by the veg I got the wife to foto them, she then uploaded them to photobucket for me
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/Willyeckerslike/P1110508.jpg)
hope it works, 400g & no additves etc
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I can get these at lots of local places...but where the hell has the tej patta gone?
I can't find asian bay for love nor money (and I've tried both)
I'm stuck with crappy english bay. I blame jerry, before he asked about them I could get 'em anywhere. Now...nowhere.
Grrrrrr...Jerry. ;D
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Hi Mick,
It certainly sounds like you've earned your stripes mate, and good luck to ya too.
Out of interest, how long back does your kitchen experiences go, and have you noticed any thing change over the years, even if it's just equipment?
Ray :)
Hi Ray,
The first kitchen I got into would have been mid 80's but to be honest my interest in cooking curries wasn't as strong as my interest in eating them. It was enough for me at the time to know about the garabi and how the curries were put together using the garabi. I have seen the use of dark coloured bhaji frying oil without knowing the impact it would have on the base. I suppose I wish I had taken more interest then about the base making.
The access I have now means that I could watch a pot of garabi being made from start to finish but I didn't have that opportunity in the 80's. Nowadays I see new veg oil go in the garabi.
As far as I'm concerned "the taste" (assuming we are all talking about the same thing) came from the garabi.
The access I had then would have been "come in and watch your curry being made" which was great but no difference to how I see them being made today.
I believe "the taste" came from practices like the use of 'burned bhaji oil' or similar, practices that nowadays may be considered as poor practice,.. as most of us know... if you ask your local curry house chef what goes in the garabi many will tell you onions, green pepper, maybe carrots, maybe potato etc .. but they won't mention flavoured(burned) oil.
I also believe that as the use of such methods disappear the great tasting curries some of us remember are also going by the wayside.
Those of us that remember such great tasting curries would also know that a madras would have the same distinct background flavour as say a dopiaza, which I had seen both being made. They were made the same way then as I see now, I think the only difference being what was in the garabi.
Certainly, the two restaurants that I have access to at the moment don't use the bhaji oil in their garabi, consequently I can have great tasting curries from both but not like I used to have.
Another insight I have is to see a chef add his mix powder to the oil and tomato paste and 'fuse' the ingredients for some ie 30 seconds or so, and then see the same chef make another curry, add his mix powder and give a quick stir and put in the garabi and reduce down, without the two curries tasting any different to each other.
My point to that is this....I think people can get a little hung up on the idea that it's all down to technique and the 'decades' of training a curry chef has had. I believe as long as you and I had the same ingredients and used roughly the same timings we can produce a curry to match a chef. After all a madras is simply oil, tomato paste, spices, lemon dressing(optional) ;) and garabi, meat and coriander, it's not exactly Blumenthal. :)
Just my take on things.... :)
Mick
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I can get these at lots of local places...but where the hell has the tej patta gone?
I can't find asian bay for love nor money (and I've tried both)
I'm stuck with crappy english bay. I blame jerry, before he asked about them I could get 'em anywhere. Now...nowhere.
Grrrrrr...Jerry. ;D
SS,
I'm having the same problem re tej patta,
I looked in just about every shop in the Asian area of Peterborough and could not find any Asian Bay but I did find this labelled....East End Tej Patta...and guess what? ..In the bag was European bay leaves... ::)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d14e93b25a7a4210bfd8ce668e0bf1d0.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#d14e93b25a7a4210bfd8ce668e0bf1d0.jpg)
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hi ss you should try TRS indian bay leaves most asian stores down here in kent do them or gurka shop great value for money.
regards
gary
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... or gurka shop ...
Gary, where is this Gurka shop ?! We used to have a wonderful Ghurka restaurant in Swanley, in an old building with exposed timbers, but one day it was just gone and replaced by a Chinese buffet :(
** Phil.
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Hi Mick,
Just my take on things....
Mick
A very well informed take as well Mick.
It's always occurred to me that the difference between today's BIR fare and that of the earlier decades, has derived more from practises more than ingredients. Using old oil, makes perfect sense, as an explanation as to what is missing today.
I'm guessing then, that it would be illegal to do the same thing these days then?
These places that you get access to Mick, have you noticed any of them using pastes, not just GG paste but actual curry pastes, in any of their final dishes?
It seems to me, that whilst pastes are very prevalent in the modern day BIR, I'm unsure as to it's actual use. Yes I can imagine it's used for their tikka, and tandoori marinade, perhaps in their seekh kebabs too but do they use the stuff in their actual curries?
Ray :)
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Ray, success :-) I have located the last of the Tandoori Red ! Send me your postal address by PM, and a teaspoon or two will wing its way to you, courtesy of Royal Mail. Then let's see whether you can finally re-create the authentic colour of a 1970's Madras.
** Phil.
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Yes Ray,
From what I have seen the use of pastes in tikka, tandoori, kebab marinades and CTM is widespread, most of us are aware of this.
The only paste I have seen used in a curry is Balti paste. I have seen this in takeaways and restaurants that are not marketed as Balti houses. They would cook a Garlic Chicken Balti, for example, by cooking the Garlic Chicken curry as usual and add a tablespoon of this paste and cook out for a minute or so.
The "Balti house restaurant" I get into would cook a curry as normal except add more mix powder to deepen the flavour. Nothing more than that. To be honest I think its more about the dish it's served in rather than how it was cooked. I think the modern day "balti" house just means it has a large steel tandoor capable of cooking the huge Naan breads that we associate with Balti houses.
Mick
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... or gurka shop ...
Gary, where is this Gurka shop ?! We used to have a wonderful Ghurka restaurant in Swanley, in an old building with exposed timbers, but one day it was just gone and replaced by a Chinese buffet :(
** Phil.
hi phil there are 3 in ashford and probably anywhere there are a small population of the ghurkas that have been recently been allowed british citizenship for service to the empire. just like an asian shop very cheap spices etc
will give you the addresses if you are planning to visit ashford for a shopping trip there
gary
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hi the ghurka shops ( they are like little supermarkets for them ) also do ginger garlic paste by SHAN (imported by TRS from pakistan) which is also very good. strange though how often do you get GINGER garlic paste but it does not give the quantities though it does say premium quality, other ingredients are vinegar, citric acid and potasium metabisulfite.
regards
gary :)
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hi phil there are 3 in ashford and probably anywhere there are a small population of the ghurkas that have been recently been allowed british citizenship for service to the empire. just like an asian shop very cheap spices etc will give you the addresses if you are planning to visit ashford for a shopping trip there
Yes please, Gary : my only reason for going to Ashford would be to check out the Ghurka shops, so the addresses would be much appreciated ! Given the weather, I don't expect to cycle there, so what is parking like in Ashford in your experience ?
** Phil.
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Hi
Phil, tried any of the Gurkha recipes yet?
Regards
Sorry I'd misspelt your name
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Phil, tried any of the Gurkha recipes yet?
Not yet : my previous experiences of Ghurka restaurant cuisine have been a little mixed. Just off the Euston Road : excellent; Oxted : awful : Swanley : brilliant; Tunbridge Wells : (Himalaya : too fancy, not good value; Mooli : excellent, both value and flavour) But I've never tried cooking Ghurka cuisine myself, apart from one attempt at Ghurka-style chicken livers following a visit to the Mooli, but I was not very successful in re-creating the flavour.
** Phil.
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Hi
Phil, if you'd like I can forward them to you. I need to get them hosted so people can access them.
Regards
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Hi
Phill, if you'd like I can forward them to you. I need to get them hosted so people can access them.
Regards
Yes please : and I can offer free hosting space :)
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Hi
Thank you for that kind offer, they are catering manual parts.
Regards
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Hi
Thank you for that kind offer, they are catering manual parts.
Regards
OK, does that mean they need scanning, or are they already in machine-readable form ? Either way, if you can let me have one, we can try it as "proof of concept".
** Phil.
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Hi
Already in PDF or JPEG. Will do so tomorrow when back in the office. Thanks again.
Regards
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hi phil there are 2 in beaver road in ashford within 50 yards of each other, the other is in the lower high street in the town centre opposite Blockbuster in between pizza hut and the KFC, and a wetherspoons opposite next door to a chinese just down the road from McD and the gorge cafe ( fry up or roasts (take your pick )and just round the corner from an eat as much as you like chinese which is 20 yards from 2 indian restaurants ( little raj and the curry leaf) and not to mention Zarin restaurant and Nasrin the tiny takeaway which is pretty good and been around for years. the 1 in the high st is bearly 75 yards from the nearest carpark, the others are easy to park outside but probably harder to find. the train station is actually midway between the 3 about 300yds north or south of the station. the 2 in beaver road are just round the corner from tandoori nights( been in PC's curry club as there is a sticker in the window) it is however unlicensed so you have to take you own beer/wine but it is 50yds from the best little off licence in ashford or 100yds from the locomotive pub. gary ;D
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Many many thanks, Gary : a mine of useful information. I shall report back once mission accomplished.
** Phil.
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hi phil there are 2 in beaver road in ashford within 50 yards of each other, the other is in the lower high street in the town centre
Right, off there tomorrow, weather and God permitting (1): I am almost completely out of frozen paratha, on which I depend whenever I need a quick curry fix, so hope very much that at least one of the three will have some ! Now I need to carry out an inventory of my spice cupboard and see what else I need :)
** Phil.
(1) God did not permit. Central heating failure, water leak from gland above C/H pump, C/H RCD will no longer latch :( Now waiting in for C/H engineer, who (thank God) can get here today ...
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hi phil there are 2 in beaver road in ashford within 50 yards of each other, the other is in the lower high street in the town centre
Thanks, Gary : finally made it into Ashford today (went by train : with a senior rail pass and free parking in Marden, almost certainly cheaper than driving into Ashford and then parking). Went to all three, starting with the nearer to the station in Beaver Road, and ending up at the one in the High Street. First and third had best stock, but second had fresh sheep's hearts and third had freshly seared "hard chicken" which I decided against trying ! Think I was overcharged for the Shana Frozen Onion Paratha (http://www.shana.tv/productdetails.php?prodId=15&catId=1) in shop 1 (GBP 2-50/pack; should have been around GBP 1-65) but was charged expected price for them in shop-3. All three are noticeably cheaper (by a factor of about 3/4) for ghee and catering size mixed pickle than the shop in Tunbridge Wells, but I think the latter's Shana paratha may well be cheaper.
A worthwhile trip, and I think my wife will enjoy shopping there as well, as they have many exotic non-Nepalese goodies. But it's sad to see what an attractive little town Ashford must once have been, before planner's blight struck (rather like Headcorn, in fact).
** Phil.