Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Trainee Chefs / Beginners Questions => Topic started by: trucker5774 on November 14, 2010, 04:10 PM
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As the heading says..............any opinions appreciated. I met a guy earlier this year who was from a "curry part of the world" I can,t remember where. He was a huge fan of plum tomatoes. I have used them more often than not since he cooked for me!
Maybe the question should be split between bases and main dishes?
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Hi Trucker,
Not sure I understand what we are talking about. Are you referring to tinned tomatoes here?
Ray :)
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fresh tomatoes in a main dish with base, tinned tomato in a more traditional homecooked dish which will be slow-cooked for longer :)
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Dom,
That's what I mean, I'm a bit confused on the question? I was gonna put initially, Tinned plum or chopped for a base but always fresh in a main dish.
Ray :)
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Sorry.............that's the novice showing through. I was referring to tinned tomatoes, whether they be plum or chopped. I guess from what has been said they are less popular in a main (but maybe have a place) So, which would be the preferred choice, assuming they were used in a base sauce and why?
The chap I met was using them in a "quick method" main without using a base sauce.
Sorry for the ambiguity :-\
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I was referring to tinned tomatoes, whether they be plum or chopped.
I've recently switched from using mainly chopped to mainly whole tinned tomatoes - I buy whichever are cheapest or on special offer. I believe they are the same tomatoes but the chopped variety are just that - broken up, like the difference between a loaf of bread, and sliced bread.
In a base, it must be irrelevant because both are pureed later. In any event, the whole tomatoes break up quite quickly. I probably prefer whole tinned tomatoes, in general.
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If I have it right, plum tomatoes are a different variety. They also seem a little sweeter to me.
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If I have it right, plum tomatoes are a different variety. They also seem a little sweeter to me.
Yes, they are definitely a different variety. If you compare plum tomatoes and "real" tomatoes when fresh, you will see that the plum variety have a markedly different shape.
** Phil.
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If I have it right, plum tomatoes are a different variety. They also seem a little sweeter to me.
Yes, they are definitely a different variety. If you compare plum tomatoes and "real" tomatoes when fresh, you will see that the plum variety have a markedly different shape.
But I don't think that's what we're talking about here, are we? We're not talking about the difference between elongated plum tomatoes and the smaller, round, fresh tomatoes used for salad's, etc. I assume most tinned tomatoes are plum tomatoes, whether whole or chopped.
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If I have it right, plum tomatoes are a different variety. They also seem a little sweeter to me.
Yes, they are definitely a different variety. If you compare plum tomatoes and "real" tomatoes when fresh, you will see that the plum variety have a markedly different shape.
** Phil.
That's pretty much what I'm getting at, Phil. In tins we see chopped and plum. The majority seem to be chopped and I would therefore assume they are the more common variety of tomatoes. I suspect the chopped variety may be beef tomatoes? When I have cooked Italian or chilli and have switched between the two, I have noticed a difference. So comparing like for like (all in tins) is there a difference? Or more to the point, will it make a difference?
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Perhaps cheaper brands will actually use a different tomato or perhaps a number of different varieties for chopped. However, I imagine the main difference will be be in the processing of the two options i.e. whole plum and chopped. Both certainly have different texture from the tin.
I noted from a JO recipe that when cooking plum tomatoes whole, you are also less likely to get a slight bitterness from the seeds, as opposed to chopped.
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That's pretty much what I'm getting at, Phil. In tins we see chopped and plum. The majority seem to be chopped and I would therefore assume they are the more common variety of tomatoes. I suspect the chopped variety may be beef tomatoes? When I have cooked Italian or chilli and have switched between the two, I have noticed a difference. So comparing like for like (all in tins) is there a difference? Or more to the point, will it make a difference?
I don't think beef tomatoes are common at all and I doubt very much if beef tomatoes are used in 'chopped' tins. I still reckon they are chopped plum tomatoes.
You say you've noticed a difference, then you ask 'will it make a difference?'. I think you've answered your own question.
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That's pretty much what I'm getting at, Phil. In tins we see chopped and plum. The majority seem to be chopped and I would therefore assume they are the more common variety of tomatoes. I suspect the chopped variety may be beef tomatoes? When I have cooked Italian or chilli and have switched between the two, I have noticed a difference. So comparing like for like (all in tins) is there a difference? Or more to the point, will it make a difference?
I think (but I may be mistaken) that tinned tomatoes, whether chopped or whole, are almost invariably plum tomatoes. However ... I have a tin in front of me as I write (the chopped variety, that is), and not only does the word "plum" appear nowhere on the tin, the illustration is of a conventional and not of a plum tomato. Of course, we all know that labels need bear no resemblance to the contents, but the absence of the word "plum" anywhere at all does lead me to believe that these may indeed be chopped conventional tomatoes. Do we have a food scientist on the forum who would be able to conduct an analysis ?
** Phil.
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Well, like an utter anorak, I'm gazing at a tin of both. Phil, there is no reference to the chopped ones as being plum, whereas, there is on the whole toms.
I've always assumed that tinned toms are of the plum variety. Either way, I would only use tinned toms in a base, not in a main.
If the TV chef's are to be trusted, they tell us that tinned toms are of a very good standard these days.
Ray :)
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Well, like an utter anorak, I'm gazing at a tin of both. Phil, there is no reference to the chopped ones as being plum, whereas, there is on the whole toms.
I don't know what to make of you pair but the thought of both of you sitting there gazing at your plums is making me a bit queasy. ;D
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I don't know what to make of you pair but the thought of both of you sitting there gazing at your plums is making me a bit queasy. ;D
If that makes you queasy, what about the thought of someone chopping them up, boiling them in tomato sauce, and then stuffing them in a can ?!
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As I said, the ones I use appear to be the same. Italian plum tomatoes are used for both whole and chopped variants. The ingredients lists both say "Italian peeled plum tomatoes 60%". These are from Lidl and, whilst low cost, are high quality. Other supermarkets may have lower quality tomatoes, of uncertain quality, at a higher price.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/51ce72ede3c7d618ed573a0601225b9c.jpg)
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I don't know what to make of you pair but the thought of both of you sitting there gazing at your plums is making me a bit queasy. ;D
If that makes you queasy, what about the thought of someone chopping them up, boiling them in tomato sauce, and then stuffing them in a can ?!
Now that kinda talk whets more than my appetite! Can you talk about it more slowly and in detail whilst jogging on a treadmill :P I don't get out much ;)
As to the tinned plum/chopped tomatoes, if I need chopped tomatoes I open a can of plum tomatoes and chop them myself (I always Napolina @ 65% tomato).
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As I said, the ones I use appear to be the same. Italian plum tomatoes are used for both whole and chopped variants. The ingredients lists both say "Italian peeled plum tomatoes 60%". These are from Lidl and, whilst low cost, are high quality. Other supermarkets may have lower quality tomatoes, of uncertain quality, at a higher price.
I believe you, George, but look at the two illustrations : would you agree with me that whilst the tomatoes illustrated on the upper can are clearly plum, those on the lower can look remarkably like conventional ?
** Phil.
(Sorry, Domi, don't have a treadmill, but on checking the garden shredder it looks as if the opening is big enough to get the plums inside if that will help ?).
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These are from Lidl and, whilst low cost, are high quality.
I use those too George, very good quality for the price, although I like the Napolina too if I can get them on sale. I wouldn't pay full price.
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I believe you, George, but look at the two illustrations : would you agree with me that whilst the tomatoes illustrated on the upper can are clearly plum, those on the lower can look remarkably like conventional ?
I noticed that as well! I think the only thing I can try is a taste test of the raw tomatoes, some out of each tin. The ingredients list is the same and you'd expect they'd come from the same factory, using the cheapest, most readily available tomatoes around (in Italy). I wouldn't expect them to be using different tomatoes, although they could perhaps use 'deformed' ones for the chopped tomatoes.
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I believe you, George, but look at the two illustrations : would you agree with me that whilst the tomatoes illustrated on the upper can are clearly plum, those on the lower can look remarkably like conventional ?
I noticed that as well! I think the only thing I can try is a taste test of the raw tomatoes, some out of each tin. The ingredients list is the same and you'd expect they'd come from the same factory, using the cheapest, most readily available tomatoes around (in Italy). I wouldn't expect them to be using different tomatoes, although they could perhaps use 'deformed' ones for the chopped tomatoes.
If you do a Google image search for chopped tomato almost all (if not all) of the images of canned chopped tomatoes are the round variety. I would imagine that if they used plum tomatoes then they would use a plum tomato image on the can, at least I can't imagine why they would not.
So on that unscientific basis it would seem that all chopped tomatoes are the round(ish) varieties.
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So on that unscientific basis it would seem that all chopped tomatoes are the round(ish) varieties.
Ah, but what about George's more scientific method : "contains exactly what it says on the can" ? Seems to have some merit, to me ...
** Phil.
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I think the only reason that they use plum toms whole, in a can, is coz they fit side by side into the tin ;D
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If you do a Google image search for chopped tomato almost all (if not all) of the images of canned chopped tomatoes are the round variety.
Are you saying that your plums are not round?
;D
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Are you saying that your plums are not round ?
Well, Victoria's aren't, and plums don't come any better than Victoria's !
** Phil.
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I'd gladly check anyone's plums for a small remuneration...I'm sure I've got some callipers around here somewhere. Please form an orderly queue....
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Please form an orderly queue....
No way ! I remember only too clearly how you said that the thought of chopping, boiling and stuffing plums into cans was whetting the parts that other messages could not reach; how could we be sure that what you call "a pair of callipers" isn't an elastrator in disguise ?
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lol I think you misunderstood....the callipers would be to keep your legs straight and save you bruising your plums in transit ;D I wouldn't want them rolling off the end of your knees :P
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D (but meanwhile, seven members leave the forum in disgust, unable to believe the depths we are now plumbing).
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I have just been to Morrisons. I read the label on every tin of tomatoes I could find. In the ingredients only the tins with whole plum tomatoes said plum tomatoes. All the others just said tomatoes :-\
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I have just been to Morrisons. I read the label on every tin of tomatoes I could find. In the ingredients only the tins with whole plum tomatoes said plum tomatoes. All the others just said tomatoes :-\
Ah, you see, that's what you get for going to Morrisons. Now had you gone to Waitrose, every tin would have said "Hand-picked, vine-ripened, finest Sicilian plum tomatoes, gently marinaded in the finest Sicilian tomato sauce, then drizzled with Extra Virgin Olive Oil to bring you that "Buon Giorno" moment with every mouthful" ;D ;D ;D
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Now had you gone to Waitrose
you don't arf buy some expensive toms Phil. Mine are "Big Bob's Bastard Plum toms" and you get them free with a 2 litre bottle of "Rola Cola" ;D ;D
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I think I'm a little late for this topic ::) but I think it maybe just people's preference in what you use. My wife prefers chopped, where as I prefer plums :)
Chopped I find are a little sharper in taste I think. Another difference I have noticed is that in chopped tins, you can often find skin, where in plum, you don't.
For me, no skin is better for a good smooth base.
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Another difference I have noticed is that in chopped tins, you can often find skin, where in plum, you don't.
Good point. In fact, when I mentally verbalise "plum tomatoes", I invariably think "peeled plum tomatoes", suggesting (to me) that that is what is written on most, if not all, cans thereof. Whereas "chopped tomatoes" are just that, with no suggestion of "peeled".
** Phil.
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Sure I read this somewhere.
Tins of plum tomatoes must be made from the whole firm 'perfect' ones, so after processing, you get whole tomatoes out of the tin.
Chopped are made from the rejected, split, soft, over-ripe and oddly shaped plum tomatoes (probably hence the occasional bits of skin still left in).
Not really taste tested this myself but, for this reason (over ripe), the chopped are supposedly sweeter.