Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: JerryM on November 09, 2010, 09:02 PM
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for a good while now i've felt the recipes on the site in the main disappoint. having said that i'm taken aback that i have 19 or so yellow sticky recipe sheets in my KD1 book. these have clearly not got there without merit.
the question is that i'd like to master the Best that BIR has to offer. i sort of think of it as recipe refinement - identify say 5 off "Best" dishes and try to improve each in turn
trouble is there are several options:
1) TA classics - take say the top dishes ie CTM
2) Chef Specialities - each restaurant or TA seems to have dish that they do really well - Bahar is one i've experienced
3) KD2 Book - convert the best to BIR format
4) Create new - adapt existing BIR dishes into new
along the way it would serve to revisit and challenge existing practise and methods to find "Best of BIR". a bit like trucker5774 post, "Basic Procedure" which is evolving into what method produces the best result.
trouble is in thinking along these lines i find many more issues than solutions.
i'd appreciate member thoughts. in short what are members thoughts on delving deeper into best of BIR practises ie ingredients, pastes, methods, recipes.
is it needed, is there a better option. blinkers off please (but not gloves)
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Forgive me for saying but isn't this what we re all trying to do though, perfect BIR dishes at home? I can't help but think of the many topics we have all read and discussed regarding regional variations, differing restaurants and their recipes, methods etc.
But I understand what your saying. It's like going full circle and finding yourself at the beginning again but not necessarily having moved forward. I sometimes find that covering old foot steps often reveals small details that I have forgotten or missed out. Perhaps this is what you need to.
I made a Karahi chicken last night spurred by Samsons recipe but I changed it to use spice mix and base. The result was by far the best Karahi chicken I have ever cooked at home. Even the wife commented on how nice it was. Not 100% perfect but the closest so far for me.
If the KD1 recipes are more to your preference, then perhaps you could apply what you know to changing them to suit what you think is more likely to be BIR. My only thought on this is that you'll likely end up at the beginning yet again.
For me, the only real way i'll ever produce the perfect BIR dishes is if the IG let me back into the kitchen to learn every single process. Pre-cooks, Pastes, Puree, Base, Ingredients, Methods, Recipes, etc. I don't feel i'll be able to accomplish this by using one recipe here and another method from there etc.
Currently, I am happy with the flavours I can achieve at home and I am happy to pay a visit to my local BIR if I crave the authentic BIR experience.
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for a good while now i've felt the recipes on the site in the main disappoint. having said that i'm taken aback that i have 19 or so yellow sticky recipe sheets in my KD1 book. these have clearly not got there without merit.
You what? I'm sorry but you've lost me. Firstly, I hope you're not bringing this forum into disrepute by suggesting that most of the recipes here are disappointing. Can you do any better, given the thousands of hours you've poured into R&D?
Also, pray explain what your yellow sticky sheets signify? Are they marking KD1 recipes which you rate higher than recipes on this site, or completely different recipes which you happen to file away in the KD1 book? If so, why mention KD1, as it might then be totally irrelevant?
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Hi
Interesting point you raise there JerryM, I wonder if it's the old regional taste issue again, as so few recipes seam to be cooked to spec when discussed in a thread.
Regards
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If can add anything here it would be to state that whenvwe have as was my case a full account from an actual BIR , it's recipes and procedures they might be best kept together in one section so those who wish can recreat actual BIR standards even if regional variation varies. I travel constantly and even although I prefer Gladgow Curris it's always a joy to taste a curry in another part of the UK and Ireland. Micky and matching probably distorts results. That's not to say it's not worth experimenting but if we could easily find the best standard we have something to compare with.
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appreciate the replies. i've not really got this fixed in my mind yet. so will take George's thoughts as a starting point.
the yellow stickies are the recipes that i use to cook from - they are all from this site.
this is the gut's of what i'm trying to get a feel for - if you compare the average BIR side by side with your equivalent dish ie in my case the "yellow sticky" there's say a slight difference but if you weren't told i think most people in the street would find it difficult to pick out the impostor. the members of the site i feel would be able to pick it out though down to the expertise they've gained from this site and cooking themselves.
now and again i get to eat in what i would call say "Best BIR". this does not mean pricey just the chef is very much better than the average in the high street. it can often even be down to a specific dish that they hold a real passion for.
what i'm searching for (i think) is what are these "Best BIR" dishes. how i then try to copy them is perhaps for later discussion.
the question i think now is what are the names of the best mains you come across in BIR land. those that stand out long after you have left the restaurant.
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Hi Jerry
Well, TBH I'm not sure how you will be able to progress this - and even if I have interpreted your question properly, but here is one of my favourites:
Chicken roshni mirch ........................................................... ? 8.95
Hot, grilled chicken cooked with garlic and green
chillies in thick sauce
From here: http://www.themahaan.co.uk/ (http://www.themahaan.co.uk/)
I consider this to be an absolutely stunning and divine curry, similar in nature to a standard chilli chicken tikka, but with a delicious smoky curry sauce.
I suppose I could post one to you? - not sure about how healthy the chicken would be after a trip through the mail though!
Regards
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Firstly, I hope you're not bringing this forum into disrepute by suggesting that most of the recipes here are disappointing.
I don't really think it brings the forum into disrepute by offering that particular opinion George and even if he were I would be standing shoulder to shoulder with Jerry on this one.
There's no doubt that many of the curries on here are very nice but of the many that I have made not one has come anywhere close to the quality of curries I am used to.
For example, I find the bhunas on here laughable compared to the taste of a real bhuna - and no I can't reproduce that taste either. A thick sauce and added onion and pepper does NOT a bhuna make.
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Chicken roshni mirch ........................................................... ? 8.95
Hot, grilled chicken cooked with garlic and green
chillies in thick sauce
From here: http://www.themahaan.co.uk/ (http://www.themahaan.co.uk/)
solarsplace,
exactly what i'm after - the say top 5 of Best BIR dishes as voted for by our members.
how to proceed once we have a top 5 is another thing and needs some thought.
but at least if we have a list then it will be a step in the direction.
Secret Santa,
you are clearly on the same wave length. and it's the question you pose "no i can't reproduce that taste
that long term i want to solve.
so far the contenders. i think we need at least 20 to decide from:
1) Chicken roshni mirch
2) proper BIR bhuna
3) CTM
4) Bahar
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Hi Jerry,
Personally my fave is still Chicken Tikka Jal Frezi, and has been for the best part of 20 years, when it first appeared on the menu but I would like to put forward the good old Madras.
It should be simple and yet, the "taste" still seems to elude many of us! Obviously, the regional thing variance plays it's part in this one, i:e, lemon juice, no lemon juice, tom puree or tom paste, coconut or no coconut (in whatever form). I like mine and I do think that it's very close to what I know but I'm still a little dissatisfied with it.
So I'd like to put forward Madras, unless anyone thinks that we have already cracked it?
Ray :)
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I find the bhunas on here laughable compared to the taste of a real bhuna - and no I can't reproduce that taste either. A thick sauce and added onion and pepper does NOT a bhuna make.
I find comments like this singularly unhelpful (and equally "laughable"). Better, surely, and surely more constructive, is to ask "what DOES a Bhuna make?" (in your humble opinion SS?).
If you can't answer THAT question, then you're certainly onto a loser!
Let's face it. There are several recipes, in the Bhuna/Bhoona/ section of the forum, that claim to be derived directly from BIRs, including:
- Dipuraja's Chicken Tikka Bhoona
- Dipuraja's Bhoona Prawn Puri
- Panpot's Ashoka Karahi Bhuna
- Panpot's Ashoka Chicken Bhuna
- Haldi's Vegetable Bhuna
- Woks Up's Bhoona Prawn Puri
Then there is CK's Lamb Bhuna that has had many, many accolades.
If you find ALL of the above recipes "laughable" then, surely, it is incumbent upon you (for your sake, if for no one else's) to define what it is that is that you feel is lacking in them?
For instance, they all contain:
- vegetable oil
- curry base
- garlic ginger paste
- tomato paste
- onion and pepper
- spice mix
- meat and various other ingredients
- all cooked, in a similar manner, to a dryish sauce
What is it, exactly, that you find "missing" from all of these (allegedly BIR) recipes? :-\
Or, perhaps there is more to "cooking technique" that I/we have previously given it credit for? ;)
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Razor,
i'm reluctant to put madras on the list. having given it some thought i think bhuna should also come off the list and probably CTM. for info i added CTM as i've had a brown version of the dish in the past which is not like the std TA and is very good)
the reason for this is that i'm trying to pin down dishes that we've not already got on the site - those that at sort of at the top of the BIR restaurant trade.
solarsplace's roshni is exactly the candidate.
a bit more explanation - these are the dishes that are very few. they are the ones that the chef really likes and cooks particularly well. i often find them in a restaurant that i've not visited before and usually are down to a friend who know's the place recommending the dish.
for example i love sylheti. in the Dilshad in the midlands this dish is to die for. surprisingly my local fav TA which i rate a 10 has the dish under it's specials but it's not to die for at all.
what i'm saying is this is quite a muddy picture. so initially we just need to get a list of all those "special" dishes that you remember distinctly as something special. there is no point discussing there merits at the moment - we just need everyone to add their own personal special dish (and importantly the ingredients listed in the menu and the location of the restaurant).
for me i would add thali but as this is a banquet of several dishes and courses i don't feel it's justified candidate.
i think in the main you won't find these dishes in a TA only TA Restaurants.
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CA/Secret Santa,
i share this interest in the bhuna and also the vindaloo.
so as not to muddy this post i'll add new post so that we can try to improve theses dishes too.
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to add a further example this is a dish i've got my eye on currently.
Tava: This appetizing spicy dish is cooked with tender chicken or lamb, marinated in green masala and mustard seeds, tossed in cherry tomatoes, shallots and green beans, and then lightly garnished with coriander.
BIR is http://www.saffronellesmereport.co.uk/about.htm (http://www.saffronellesmereport.co.uk/about.htm)
ps the green beans would be a 1st for me but you've got to keep an open mind.
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a bit more explanation - these are the dishes that are very few. they are the ones that the chef really likes and cooks particularly well. i often find them in a restaurant that i've not visited before and usually are down to a friend who know's the place recommending the dish.
This provides useful insights, Jerry : like, I suspect, many others, I misunderstood the thrust of the thread. But I have to say, for me the "Specials" section of the menu in most BIRs leads to terrible disappointment only too often, in that the so-called "Specials" are almost invariably based on pre-tikkad chicken/lamb/whatever rather than using "fresh" (or non-tikkad but pre-cooked). So now I make it a rule that whenever I want to try a new restaurant, I will first try their Chicken Madras or similar, so that I can judge them on their basics. If and only if these are OK will I return and perhaps try one of their specials, but even then I will grill the waiter as to whether the primary ingredient has been pre-tikkad, and if he assures me that it has not, and it is, I send it back !
** Phil (who personally wishes that CTM had never been invented !).
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to add a further example this is a dish i've got my eye on currently.
Tava: This appetizing spicy dish is cooked with tender chicken or lamb, marinated in green masala and mustard seeds, tossed in cherry tomatoes, shallots and green beans, and then lightly garnished with coriander.
Why are you trying to shift the focus on to obscure dishes that most people have never heard of when, if you and SS are right, we haven't even cracked the recipes for basic dishes like Madras and Bhuna? I'm not sure who's right, i.e. can anyone really cook curries which taste as good as served by the best BIRs? My gut feel is that at least a few people can, and it was the driving force behind my Come Dine idea, to try and discover who these people are, and which dishes can be 'ticked off'. I feel that Blade's tikka can be 'ticked off' because I've never tasted much better in a BIR.
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George,
we haven't even cracked the recipes for basic dishes like Madras and Bhuna
And it is for that reason why I suggested the Madras.
Personally, I never look at the house specials, as like chaa suggest, they're often a bit of a let down.
I had a madras last night from my local TA, and it was just devine. I could taste a hint of lemon, I could taste a hint of garlic, ginger and chili but there was still a taste/smell that eludes me and many others I suspect. It's that, that I'm more interested in.
Ray :)
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I had a madras last night from my local TA, and it was just devine. I could taste a hint of lemon, I could taste a hint of garlic, ginger and chili but there was still a taste/smell that eludes me and many others I suspect. It's that, that I'm more interested in.
I agree with you Ray. Since I started cooking curries from this forum I tend to buy less takeaways (obviously) and recently I have been satisfied with my own dishes. However a few months ago I went to an excellent restaurant in Coventry and literally a split second before I ate that first spoonful I smelt that elusive aroma that some of us are striving for. So George I think your point that our memories of tastes fade over time is true but I dont think they are ever entirely forgotten
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For what it's worth IMHO there are throughout this site excellent recipes. Even with regional variation so much to enjoy here too. Perhaps with so much experimentation and in my opinion the mismatching of base sauces with pastes and spice mixes we distort and don't remember the very best that can be found here if we follow to the letter recipes from an authentic source without the usual regional prejudices. PP PS can I apoligise for the spelling inn my post above. I often find this is happening when I post from my iPhone don't know why though.
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Chaa006,
you have sort of hit the nail on the head - these "special" dishes are few and far between - hence the post to try and narrow down which they are.
so far for me i have roshni and bahar.
it looks from the posts that the list is not going to grow that much.
For All those a bit sceptic:
there are without doubt (as Panpot and most of you already know) excellent dishes on the site. i know that the information to cook them yourself to BIR standard is on this site.
this post is to push our knowledge and expertise a little further.
as an example if you picture BIR as a hill. i thought for a long time i would not be able to climb it. Yes KD1 got a little way up. once you get to the top of this hill it's a bit like fell walking you realise there are more hills but further away. i'm trying to get in my own mind which of these is best to aim for.
hence all the post are just what i'm after - the more views the better.
in the absence of come dine i can't think of any other alternatives.
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hi jerry have not posted in this very interesting thread but thinking what dish i would include.
posted for a recipe for it about 4 years ago on cr0 but to no avail :(
it used to be served in the Maharaja in biddenden in the 90's now called "gram spice" after being Rajver for years my first kitchen demo and where i cooked my own Phall!
any way the dish was called a "Balti garlic chilli chicken tikka masala" it was hot not too sweet flavoured and aromatic with reddy brown sauce/gravy savoury and very moreish. have tried to recreate it but never got close, so now its vindaloo or hotter all the way, and chicken tikka as a treat chicken tikka vindaloo is probably our favourite but it only works with my own tikka.
any way would love to put this on the list.
regards
gary ;D
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it used to be served in the Maharaja in biddenden in the 90's now called "gram spice"
Ah yes, Gram Spice : it is only a couple of months since I had a take-away from there. I was returning to Chainhurst from Biddenden when I passed this place late afternoon, and all of a sudden I felt very hungry (as one does !). I went in, explained I needed to see the menu as I hadn't eaten there before, and immediately was proposed various offerings from the "Specials" menu. These I politely declined (thereby saving about GBP 8-00) and instead had some nice basic fare which tasted very good indeed when I finally got home. I would certainly eat there (or have a take-away from there) again.
** Phil.
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And it is for that reason why I suggested the Madras.
Very much along the lines of what I was thinking. Until I've cracked the humble Madras (and similar BIR staples) I wouldn't want to move onto 'House Specials'.
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parker21,
can't resist a dish with garlic in the tittle.
i now have: roshni, bahar, Balti garlic chilli chicken tikka masala.
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just to be clear i'm not asking for anyone to do anything or move onto anything in this post other than add any dishes they consider to be "Best of BIR".
these are not the restaurant or TA classics.
they are those that stand out in your memory from a night out in your fav BIR or a restaurant that you have visited with friends. i don't believe you will find them in a BIR that only does TA.
ideally i need a description of what the dish is ie the ingredients and if possible the web site of the relevant restaurant.
it's looking as if the search is not going to prove that successful. this is fine if it is the case as at least i have an answer rather than a current not knowing.
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If can add anything here it would be to state that whenvwe have as was my case a full account from an actual BIR , it's recipes and procedures they might be best kept together in one section so those who wish can recreat actual BIR standards even if regional variation varies
Hi Panpot,
I forgot that I have already produced an index (well, sort of) for your Ashoka recipes here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3215.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3215.0)
Perhaps you could ask a mod (or admin) to make it a sticky in the most appropriate section of the forum?